Brisbane busways almost ready to roll

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX and Courier Mail click here!

Brisbane busways almost ready to roll

Brisbane busways almost ready to roll
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Torny Jensen of mX

July 23, 2009 02:53pm

COMMUTERS have only 10 days to wait before Brisbane's newest busways will be up and running with the new public transport links opening early next month.

Premier Anna Bligh announced this morning that both the Boggo Road/Eastern Busway and the latest extension to the Inner Northern Busway would be open for business from Monday, August 3.

Bligh toured the new 1.2km, $198 million first stage of the Northern Busway this morning that links a massive new station at the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital with the Inner Northern Busway to the city.

The elevated busway that presently runs alongside Bowen Bridge Rd looks as if it ends with a road to nowhere north of the hospital.

But the road will hook up with the Airport Link project by 2012 and the next stage of the northern busway to Kedron. Until then, buses will use a temporary ramp to a roundabout off Butterfield St to link up.

Bligh said the new link to the Inner Northern Busway would cut peak-hour travel between the hospital and the city by up to 15 minutes.

"This section of the Northern Busway will remove more than 5000 buses a week from traffic and carry more than 32,000 passengers a day who might otherwise be driving cars,'' Bligh said.

"That will immediately take pressure off the junction of Herston Rd with Bowen Bridge Rd and will make the journey to the hospital easier for patients and health workers using public transport and for motorists alike.''

On the southside, the new $366 million Boggo Road/Eastern Busway will link the South East Busway to the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and the University of Queensland via the PA Hospital and a 630m tunnel under the old Boggo Road jail site.

It includes busway stations adjacent to the Park Rd train station and at the hospital.

The busways will be launched at a community open day this Sunday from 10am to 2pm, with members of the public able to take free bus rides along the new routes.

But cyclists will have to wait a little longer for access to the new $8 million cycle centre at the RBWH. Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the centre would be opened by October.

[ozbob]

A welcome improvement!  Details of the walk throughs are here --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2496.0

[Otto]

Has anyone noticed that the only routes using the Boggo Road Busway will be 139, 169 and 209 which only service UQ.. ( No City Services )

[O_128]

Has anyone noticed that the only routes using the Boggo Road Busway will be 139, 169 and 209 which only service UQ.. ( No City Services )

yep.

to think this could have been the start of the capalaba train line and an eventual link to clevelnad.......sigh

[STB]

Given the population isn't going to grow that much east of Carindale, a rail line would've not of been appropriate given the much smaller population density and forecasted population density out that way.  You can view the Redlands City Council documents on this.  A town planner once told me also that Gumdale isn't appropriate for a higher density of population due to it being a flood plain and water catchment area for the Redlands.  Burbank also being a water catchment area, moreso then Gumdale, with the dam being one of the major water supply catchments for the Redlands, it will definiately never grow much more than it is now.

Between Carindale and the City however, the population density and forecasted population density would to an extent justify a rail line, but I would hazard a guess the topography is not that entirely favourable for a rail line, without an immense cost for major earthworks,  particularly between Carina and Coorparoo.  Also with the population being very spread out, a rail line being fixed probably would've limited the access for the residents out there, IMO.

[stephenk]

Has anyone noticed that the only routes using the Boggo Road Busway will be 139, 169 and 209 which only service UQ.. ( No City Services )

yep.

to think this could have been the start of the capalaba train line and an eventual link to clevelnad.......sigh

The population density is not really high enough to justify a new heavy rail line. Maybe light rail, but that can only serve a narrow corridor. Buses can leave the corridor at many points to serve a larger area.

[Jon Bryant]

Guys, the notion that densities are not high enough assumes that there is an uppper limit to the % of trips that will be by public transport.  However, the % of trips made by public transport has no such upper limit and is dependant on the amount are car parking available at the destination and the road capacity in between.  If both of these are kept at a minimum the % of trips by public transport will increase and even our existing densities are fine.   I do support higher densities right across our city though.   In Brisbane we have provided/still are providing far too much car parking space and road capacity and always well in advance of increases in public transport services. 

A fundamental change in transport planning is required. Currently the approach is to assume public and active transport will only ever be about 12-15% of trips.  20% max.  The rest needs to be catered for by the motor vehicle and the road system and car parking planned accordingly.  And we wonder why 80% of trips are made by motor vehicle.  We planned for it!!!!

I support the Busways but want to see them converted to light rail moving as many people as heavy rail.  I also think they are over engineered and create some poor urban spaces.  We also need massive investment in heavy rail right across the region.   A sustainable transport system requires us to target 60%+ of trips made by public or active transport.  Our public/active transport system needs to have a capacity to carry 60%+ of trips and our road system/car parking reduced to contain the remaining 40% (this include freight and commerical trips).  This is a far cry from what we have today.

This will take decades to achieve but it is a change in approach our Governments need to make today and start to correct 40 years of bad transport planning.

[O_128]

I was very happy to see on a Northern busway info sheet that it was light rail capapble int he future. how about a service from UQ to park road , PA, buranda, Southbank,cultural,queen street, KGSS, Normanby ,QUT RCH and RCWH and then continuing to newstead effectively taking the need for those ridiculous super busses off the road.

[stephenk]

I was very happy to see on a Northern busway info sheet that it was light rail capapble int he future. how about a service from UQ to park road , PA, buranda, Southbank,cultural,queen street, KGSS, Normanby ,QUT RCH and RCWH and then continuing to newstead effectively taking the need for those ridiculous super busses off the road.

So you've turned the inner Northern Busway into light rail? Can you now explain how the areas not served by your light rail system but currently served by high(ish) frequency buses (e.g Chermside, Lutwych, Aspley, Stafford) now get their buses into the city without being stuck in traffic?

Unfortunately light rail can only run along narrow corridors. Thus to serve a spread out low density city such as Brisbane, people will need to change from light rail to local feeder buses. This increases both operating costs and journey time. With busways, buses can leave the busway at regular intervals to serve destinations located further away from the busway, allowing for more one seat journeys, and still allowing for a very frequent service on the core route.

Converting the existing busways to light rail would be a huge waste of money, and would not solve Brisbane's public transport crisis.

[Jon Bryant]

Stephenk, the Busway conversion would just be the start.  We should also have light rail running down the middle of all our major roads with stops at the business/shopping centres and/or TOD's along the route.  This would create a criss-cross of routes throughout the region allowing people to jump off and on different routes to make their way around.  This would be supported by heavy rail routes that link up the major centres across the region without having to all go through the CBD plus greater inner city options.

Please read Chris Hale's article from Friday.  Light rail is far more attractive to infrequent/casual travellers and these are the people we need to get out of their cars.

Buses would then provide local services within neighbourhoods which is a key for reducing local car trips and increasing densities without increasing traffic.  TOD's need these local services as well.   

The solution lies in a mix of transport modes that work together to make pubic transport quick, efficient and comphrehensive.

[ButFli]

I was very happy to see on a Northern busway info sheet that it was light rail capapble int he future. how about a service from UQ to park road , PA, buranda, Southbank,cultural,queen street, KGSS, Normanby ,QUT RCH and RCWH and then continuing to newstead effectively taking the need for those ridiculous super busses off the road.

So you've turned the inner Northern Busway into light rail? Can you now explain how the areas not served by your light rail system but currently served by high(ish) frequency buses (e.g Chermside, Lutwych, Aspley, Stafford) now get their buses into the city without being stuck in traffic?

Perhaps the busways could be turned into a true tram-style operation that could take both the light rail vehicles and buses. The trams would do the main trunk route along the busway as well as some of the major routes that branch off it. Buses could do the rest.

[stephenk]

Perhaps the busways could be turned into a true tram-style operation that could take both the light rail vehicles and buses. The trams would do the main trunk route along the busway as well as some of the major routes that branch off it. Buses could do the rest.

It wouldn't work. Look at the congestion that is already occurring at Cultural Centre. Would you want to throw a tram running on fixed tracks into the mix?

Are there any high capacity (15,000pphpd) mixed tram/busways in the world? No.

Light rail does have it's place, and is more attractive than bus, but retrofitting existing busways would be a huge waste of money and an operational nightmare!

[O_128]

of course buses and lgith rail could work together on the busways . with the cultural centre issue the need for that proposed bridgeis needed and an expansin of that station would be needed. or we could have built it underground in the first place like it was supposed to be!!!!!!

[STB]

Agree with Stephenk.  It'd be pointless and a massive operational nightmare to not only have buses running on the busway but also trams running on it too.  While I can understand Trams to be more attractive, they are best used in an area of very high density area of population, such as along the Gold Coast coastal fringe, where there is a high turnover of passengers, they are not good for line haul services. 

Melbourne has this exact problem where people are using the trams to get to and from work, but if you live within a 5km radius of the city, you can forget trying to board a tram in the peak hours, despite the frequency.  I have seen the DoT reports and spoken to DoT on this and they are facing their own crisis with it.  In fact Melbourne has reached it's expected patronage for 2016, and they are limited in expanding the existing network, due to various constraints.  They are currently compiling a new report to factor in this unexpected greater % increase in patronage.

While buses are not ideal for line haul purposes they do spread out the patronage along different routes and allow buses faster access to penetrate further into the suburbs beyond the busway.  Additional services can also be put on in a faster timeframe than rail (heavy and light) and is only limited mainly by roadside capacity and kerbside capacity, rail is limited by track capacity and there has to be a safe clearence time between rollingstock, more needed in heavy rail than light rail of course though.

While I'm not against light rail or heavy rail, I do understand that there are only certain places where it is appropriate to use them, the only places I can see so far to be used would be within the inner city area, extending no further than Wooloongabba and no further north of Bowen Hills and the Gold Coast coastal fringe (as is now under construction).

Can I ask O_128, why are you so fixated on light rail?  Have you done actual research into how light rail works and where it's best used?  Or are you simply attracted to it as it appears attractive to the general user?

[O_128]

if you have seen the south east busway in the mornings you will see that at stations sucha s buranda there are lines of buses waiting to stop on the platforms. Light rail is able to carry much more passengers in better comfort.

[STB]

I have travelled on the SE Busway many times in AM Peak - I live on the southside!

There are other measures that can reduce congestion on the busway that can be looked at first before resorting to a very expensive option, and somewhat limiting, plus other reasons I posted above.  Such as Pre-Pay ticketing, using artics.

In Melbourne, they actually reduce the number of seats on the trams to encourage standees, as that takes up less space than seats do, less comfy but you can fit more on.  I find buses just as comfy as trams too, at the end of the day they both get me to where I want to go which I find more important than simply comfort.

How about you travel to Melbourne and try out the trams over two weeks in the peak of the peak and let me know if I'm wrong!

EDIT:  I forgot to mention too, that there's no reason why the same congestion wouldn't happen with light rail.  Congestion with the trams in Melbourne does occur.  At the end of the day there will always be some level of congestion with any sort of transport, yes, even walking.  The main thing you focus on is how you manage that congestion, and there are many different ways to do that, then simply resorting to changing the mode of transport.

[stephenk]

Light rail is able to carry much more passengers

Can you justify that comment?

You will find that Brisbane's SE Busway carries more passengers than the vast majority of Light Rail Systems. Light Rail only has an advantage when it has a 100% segregated route, and train lengths longer than around 50-60m - at which point it is verging on being heavy rail! Whilst I think Light Rail was the right choice for the Gold Coast for many reasons I've outlined in another thread,  it is not as suitable for Brisbane now that the Busway system is well established. Maybe it is suitable for Brisbane if the alignment does need to interact with the Busway and does not require duplicate infrastructure.

Please file "Converting Brisbane's Busways to Light Rail" away in the "Trainspotter Fantasies" drawer.

[Jon Bryant]

I am not sure we should use Melbourne as a reference as the issue is here in Briabane and the question is can our Busway take any more bus routes on them?

I know that I too have seen the saturation point at the Cultural Centre with 10-15 buses waiting to stop and many of the buses are far from full. The scramble on the platform to get on a bus is pure madness, dangerous to the elderly or frail and I am concerned that somebody will be hurt soon.  The 111, 555 and other trunk routes are always full or overflowing but those that travel along the busway and then branch off into the suburbs are on many occasions less than half full. 

It is this reason that the busway should be converted to either:

1. a series of trunk bus routes than may branch out later on but only along major roads and llinking to major comercial/retail centres (e.g Browns Plains, etc) or

2. a series of trunk light rail routes (bordering on heavy rail lengthts) than may branch out later on but only along major roads and linking to major comercial/retail centres (e.g Browns Plains, etc).

It is not light rail in itself that is the answer as much as it is the conversion to a reduced number of trunck routes.  I am more than happy for this to be a 2 step process but the first step above is need now!  Anybody wanting to travel along the busway can jump on any bus without a fear that it will suddenly brach off.  Yes a bit like a train line.

I support light rail as a par of the overall system because it has been shown in numerous overseas studies as attracting greater patronage especially in the casual/infrequent traveller.  It is not the only solution but along major routes it is a key part.  The uncertainity of the current bus routes puts many off catching them especially the casual/infrequent traveller.   It is these potential users that we need to get out of their cars. 

[STB]

I am not sure we should use Melbourne as a reference as the issue is here in Briabane and the question is can our Busway take any more bus routes on them?

I know that I too have seen the saturation point at the Cultural Centre with 10-15 buses waiting to stop and many of the buses are far from full. The scramble on the platform to get on a bus is pure madness, dangerous to the elderly or frail and I am concerned that somebody will be hurt soon.  The 111, 555 and other trunk routes are always full or overflowing but those that travel along the busway and then branch off into the suburbs are on many occasions less than half full. 

I disagree with this observation, the 120, 180, 250, 275, 279, 281, 135...and many others are regularly quite well used, more than half full on many occassions.

Is light rail then only attractive because people can 'see' where they go, as I suppose with buses there is no obvious marks on the road indicating that a bus goes along that road, other than a bus stop, which infrequent users could obviously miss?  Whlie with rail you can obviously see the tracks, indicating to the infrequent user that there is a public transport mode available?

[#Metro]

A long reply for my 2c 

I would like to know what the planning stage etc the Brisbane Metro is going.
We would need information about what was happening on this front as well to best place where light rail/metro/busway would go.

Brisbane is a low density city, so I think that light rail systems down the busway would work well rather than dithering around in low density suburbs.
The BCC has released a report detailing, route by route, what the costs and benefits would be. (Click Here).

The main reasons for choosing bigger buses over light rail were:
* Both choices are economically favourable to implement, but the Bus option has greater benefits and less cost on the routes proposed.
* Quicker to implement, less traffic impact before and after (no need to wire things up, lay track, and we have new bus building facilities)
* The BCC wants to look into a metro system for around the city

It has almost been two years since this report, it would be interesting to see what progress was being made.
To give some hope to those who, for whatever reason, like light rail (myself included) there would still be room for light rail:

- In the metro system: Light rail could be used in the metro system until patronage becomes so high, that real metro rolling stock would then be warranted. By this time, the light rail cars could be taken out of the metro and put on the busway (because by then the busway demand would be huge).

- Upgrades of the busway: It seems odd to think that the busway would simply be ripped down and replaced with metro or rail when patronage becomes huge; Placing light rail on the busway appears to be the next logical step.

IMHO, there is a missing link before light rail would ever be viable: A new $200 million Adelaide St bridge, and a dedicated, separate busway connection that goes from South Brisbane-Cultural Centre-CBD-Central-Fortitude Valley-Newstead-RCH (parts possibly underground/tunnel in Adelaide St). This link is already served by trains, but:

a) Buses can't run on the train tracks
b) This area suffers from buslock/CBD traffic interactions in Adelaide St
c) The West End-CBD-New Farm line is one of the most heavily patronised lines.
d) Riverside/Creek St has neither a train station nor busway station (ferry is closest)
e) Fortitude Valley/Creek Sts really need busway stations
f) Using the INB is deviates too far from the CBD-CreekSt-Valley Axis.

But this would be something for the future...

[#Metro]

Unfortunately light rail can only run along narrow corridors. Thus to serve a spread out low density city such as Brisbane, people will need to change from light rail to local feeder buses. This increases both operating costs and journey time. With busways, buses can leave the busway at regular intervals to serve destinations located further away from the busway, allowing for more one seat journeys, and still allowing for a very frequent service on the core route.

True, but the busway is a narrow corridor but it is surprisingly well patronised (e.g. 555,111,333,200 etc). Changing to local feeder buses does introduce a time penalty, but you have to look at the general 'good' over the whole system (big picture). If this measure allows more people to travel, and a more optimal allocation of bus resources in the suburbs, then on the whole if might actually make the transport network both more effective (reaching more places) and more efficient (better utilising that dollar of PT). Proper appraisal and evaluation would require quantitative (i.e. numeric) analysis from both an economic and engineering perspective because the size of the cost or time penalties do matter- critically.

I note that feeder buses are what have been advocated for to rail stations on this forum; and I think a feeder strategy is what is being pursued with the Gold Coast Light Rail Scheme. Though I am not certain whether the scheme will mix bus/rail in the same lanes, but I don't see what the problem would be if it did. I think that any conversion to light rail would be well off into the future, and that many buses would still run to the city on the busway.

Converting the existing busways to light rail would be a huge waste of money, and would not solve Brisbane's public transport crisis.

Yes, but I think timing matters. It would be a huge waste doing it now, but in the future it might be good value to do so as future conversion has been designed in. While, it wouldn't solve Brisbane's Public Transport 'crisis' but nothing ever has, and I doubt ever will. Define "solved". I think this change would represent an improvement and a relief; It would put us on the path leading towards that public transport 'ideal', which is a good thing.

[Jon Bryant]

Stephenk, even if all the buses are full the observation that there are 10-15 buses lining up at a station during peak times is absolutely true.  The key question is "Is the current Busway at peak capacity and no more routes/buses can be added?".  If it is, and I believe that it is, then we need to look a ways of moving more people along the corridor.   We also need to solve the rugby scrum at the stations as people scramble to move to their bus. 

The busway cannot be converted to heavy rail so light rail with longer/multi-entry trams (almost train like) seems to be the clear choice.   The reduction in the number of routes also means more people can jump on more trams ensuring that each trams is used to it maximum capacity and the rugby scrum minimised (i.e. just jump on the next tram that comes along).   Feeder buses do introduce an added delay/mode change but again with the right service people will find this more responsive than having to wait for their exact bus at the source especially when the timing is 15-20 minutes between services.  With good network and urban design feeder buses could also be a exception rather than a rule as most hoouses would be within 800m (10 min walk) of a train or light rail station.

Light rail is "more" attractive not "only" attrractive because people feel more comfortable with jumping off and on them.  It is a psychological thing so no real rational explanation. 

PS.  Did you know that Ottowa is/has converted it Busway to Light Rail due to downtown bottleneck problems as are other cities that our busways were based on.  The Busway have been a great success don't get me wrong but we need to continue to attract more people onto PT and move more poeple each and every day.

We need to do this conversion now not in the future as we have a capacity problem now.

[ButFli]

With good network and urban design feeder buses could also be a exception rather than a rule as most hoouses would be within 800m (10 min walk) of a train or light rail station.

You're dreaming. The only way it could be done is to demolish Brisbane and start again. We can't even get buses to within 800m of many homes. What chance do rail-based solutions have?

To expect people to walk 10 minutes to and from PT en mass is expecting too much. Most people would not catch public transport if there was a tram stopping outside their front gate every 2 minutes.

[#Metro]

The Gold Coast will provide a real world, and relevant "experiment" of the above scenario.
We should note the before and after effects...