QR "Safety Initiative"

[Fares_Fair]

Hello all,

We had a QR customer service representative on the 5:16pm City to Nambour service on Friday.

As of Friday 27 February, 2009 QR have implemented a new "safety initiative"
on the north coast line whereby the passengers in the last 3 carriages of a 6 car train
are corralled forward into the first 3 carriages of the train (northbound service)
for Beerburrum Station and then all stations from Landsborough to the north.

The end 3 carriages are then switched off and shut down to passengers.
(it appears to be more of a money saving initiative to me).

They used to announce that any passengers wanting to get off at short platform stations
(e.g. Beerburrum, Eudlo and Mooloolah etc.), should move forward to enable safe egress
onto the platform.

A similar event then occured this morning to the south bound services towards the city
whereby passengers were told to enter the first 3 carriages of the train for all stations
from Gympie North / Nambour to Landsborough.

Can anyone shed some light on the purpose of this new "safety initiative" upheaval ?
All it achieved was a more crowded front 3 carriages of the train.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[mufreight]

Hope this helps but it is the outcome of a safety audit so no doubt brought about by someone either leaving the train from cars not on the platform and injuring themselves, or delaying the train while it had to pull forward to make a second stop.
Obviously this is another case of a step to protect people from themselves, possibly overkill in some respects and an inconvenience to some but it is to remove the possibility of those not familiar with the system attempting to disembark from the trailing three carriages of a train when it stops at a short (three cars or less platform).
Perhaps an improvement on this would be for the anouncement to be made at Caloolture and the safety person then ride in the trailing carriages and isolate the doors at stations where the platform length is too short for the full train, this would then mean that those passengers travelling to stations such as Nambour would then not have to move and could travel in comfort.
No doubt when the duplication to Beerburrum is opened using the full length platforms of the new stations the point of moving people foreward will become Beerburrum untill such time as the duplication is completed as far as Landsborough and the interveening platforms are all full length.
It is definately not a cost saving measure as the extra staff have to be paid and the operating costs of a six car train remain the same even if three cars are empty.

[Arnz]

I've boarded the 4:34pm service to Landsborough/Nambour this afternoon, and a similar event happened towards Landsborough. 

For Beerburrum Station, the guard did the usual "move towards the front 3 cars" announcement by the guard at Elimbah, but when we reached Landsborough, the guard told the passengers in the back 3 carriages to move to the front 3 cars at Landsborough, and those for Eudlo are to move towards the front carriage.

The train left Landsborough with the back 3 carriages closed down and blocked to passengers.  But seeing that most passengers usually get off at Landsborough anyway, there were no crowding issues with shutting down the back 3 cars north of Landsborough.

[Fares_Fair]

Thank you mufreight and arnz.
This new initiative is called a "zero harm" policy.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Arnz]

Going from another source, this is ALSO applied to the Rosewood line as well (due to 3 car platforms between Ipswich and Rosewood). 

The back 3 cars of a 6-car operated Rosewood service is shut down between Ipswich and Rosewood.

[ozbob]

I am hopeful that there will be some official clarification of these initiatives.  As mu has posted above, there was a safety audit and it was considered necessary to examine practices at short stations - a number on the north coast, Tennyson, and some stations between Ipswich and Rosewood.

Trains have been stopping at short stations, and wayside stops for over a hundred years.  Unfortunately it seems with our failing society, now more and more, what should be an obvious individual responsibility is being corrupted to an organisational responsibility which is onerous and excessive.  Another excellent example of this corruption in responsibility are the feeble attempts to blame level crossing incidents on railways.  If a road user stops as directed, looks and only proceeds if safe, then not an issue. No, racing red lights and trains is the cop out.  Must be the railways fault is the exclaim.

[ozbob]

As I passed through Roma St this morning there was an announcement reminding passengers for Tennyson to travel in the last 3 cars of the Corinda via South Brisbane service.

[dwb]

I would think it better to have more people in three carriages rather than have people at the back of the train who could be assaulted due to not many other people around to help them, or in ability to change carriages at different stations due to some shady character getting on, bc some platforms are shorter.

[Fares_Fair]

I would respectfully beg to differ dwb.

There are signs throughout many QR services extolling us how the
(ticketies) white shirts and even police (with a picture of a police dog beside the officer)
are there to ensure our safety on the trains.

Are these pictures just propaganda or lies or both ?

Having asked that, I have never in my 8 years of travel seen
a uniformed police officer with a dog on board a train.

Besides that a guard is called a "guard" for a reason.

I agree wholehaertedly with Bob, unfortunately people are not being held responsible
for their foolish actions and now we all have to pay the price of their stupidity,
by an act of overkill (no pun intended) by QR.

Seems to be a sign of the times.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[dwb]

As you say, you've never seen police in uniform in 8 years, most people's safety is actually derived from other passengers and not guards. It would therefore seem to make sense to concentrate people in one half of the train.

[ozbob]

In view of some conflicting information, I requested a clarification from QR.

The following message has been received from Mr Paul Scurrah, Executive General Manager QR Passenger.

Thank you Mr Scurrah for this clarification.

"Safety is QR's highest priority and we continually assess the safety of our operations.

"Following recent assessments on the North Coast and Rosewood lines, we have decided to trial new safety measures for our services, including extra staff on our trains to assist passengers when disembarking at stations with short platforms, as well as an education campaign to raise passenger awareness of safe travel on QR services.

"There are no plans to discontinue services to stations with short platforms.

"QR's current practice for disembarking passengers at short platforms is to direct passengers to the front three cars of a six car train set and lock the rear cars.

"This practice has been in place for many years."

[Fares_Fair]

I too have sought clarification on the new "Zero Harm" policy, and am awaiting their advice.

Whilst QR have always warned of the shorter platforms ahead and asked passengers to move up to the front 3 carriages, they have been doing that for years.

The statement that they have been locking up the rear 3 cars for years is just not true !
I have been travelling on the last 3 carriages on the north coast line for over 8 years.
Friday 27 February, 2009 was the first time in my 8 years of travel that this has occurred ...

That statement from Mr Scurragh is clearly incorrect.
The information as presented from Mr Scurragh above is clearly wrong !

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

Howdy Fares_Fair,

I agree it is a bit confusing Mr Scurrah's last sentence.  I think it probably refers to the fact that they have been directing passengers to travel in the first three cars, and that is what has been the practice for years.  Locking of the cars seems to have only started recently as you have indicated.

Cheers
Bob

Footnote:  I contacted QR Passenger and they confirmed that is what is meant by the final statement, that is "refers to the fact that they have been directing passengers to travel in the first three cars, and that is what has been the practice for years."

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Bob,

Thank you for the clarification.

Regards,
Fares_fair

[ozbob]

Media Release 14 Mar 2009

SEQ:  Short platforms and improved safety on the QR Citytrain network

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has acknowledged the new safety procedures at platforms less than six car length on the rail network.  Following a safety audit by QR Passenger, new enhanced safety procedures have been implemented on the suburban and interurban rail network to allow passengers to board and leave the train safely at short platform stations.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track members have reported new procedures on trains stopping at short platforms.  Most platforms on the rail network can accommodate six car trains, but some platforms are a lot shorter.  These short platforms are on the Sunshine Coast line, the Ipswich to Rosewood line, and Tennyson station."

"Passengers are directed to the front three cars and the rear cars are now locked. Due to operational requirements at Tennyson it is the rear three cars used for passengers. Also on some services extra staff are on the trains to assist disembarking passengers.   Despite some rumours that services to short platforms were to be discontinued we have been advised by QR Passenger that this is definitely not the case."

"QR does put safety at the highest priority.  Despite some initial confusion and adjustments to the new procedures by passengers it is acknowledged that the improved disembarking procedures are safer, particularly for passengers who are not regular travellers to and from the short platforms."

"In time, RAIL Back On Track would like all short platforms to be extended to the standard six car length.  This has been the case with the recently constructed new stations at Beerburrum and Elimbah due to come into service in the near future.  Passenger numbers are only going to increase so it is essential that these upgrades continue."

"Thanks QR Passenger!"

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 16th March 2009 page 9

Plan to reduce services derailed

[Fares_Fair]

"Zero Harm" Safety Initiative not thought through ...

The guards on our service are walking through and isolating the doors
to prevent incorrect egress from the train where no platform occurs.

In doing so they are isolating the emergency door openers also.

In the event of a fire or gas leak on board the carriage the passengers would be trapped inside with no means of escape and would be reliant on the guard to walk through to each carriage and release the doors using his special key to access the isolation switch box.

This to my mind is a far greater hazard and potentially dangerous to a majority of passengers than the minor accident they are trying to prevent ...

Food for thought QR.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

I will contact QR.

Cheers
Bob

[Fridge]

In all my travels on the North Coast Line all the doors in each carriage are 'released' at every station regardless of platform length even though the article says that they were remotely locked. 

Eudlo (1 car), Mooloolah & Beerburrum (3 car) and Palmwoods & Woombye (4 car) platforms are that little bit longer so you could get on or off in the leading door of the next carriage. 

I've heard in one instance a tourist fell out of a rear carriage at Beerburrum because they thought it was Beerwah station (they seem to only hear the 'Beer' part and always look a little confused until a regular passenger mentions that Beerwah and Australia Zoo are 2 stops away), and I have seen multiple times people opening the doors so they can have a look outside.

[ozbob]

I contacted QR and received this response received from QR Fares_Fair.  This clarifies the situation.

Isolating the electric doors does not create a safety risk, because passengers can still operate the emergency exit button in an emergency.

Thanks QR for the prompt advice.

Regards
Bob

[Arnz]

My recent trip back to Landsborough had the back 3 cars "isolated" when it stopped at Beerburrum.  Passengers were able to stay in the back 3 carriages when passing Beerburrum.  But doors weren't released/able to be opened.

However, at Landsborough all passengers were told to move to the front 3 cars, with the back 3 carriages were shut off and locked.  I will assume its the case inbound Nambour to Landsborough (as I usually get off at Landsborough).

I'm not sure if this still is the case or not, since I've travelled on the 2:38pm Caboolture/Nambour connecting service today (aka Train no #XLS7).

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

QR backs down from closing Coast stations

QR backs down from closing Coast stations

12:00a.m. 18th March 2009

| By Anne-Louise Brown
QR backs down from closing Coast stations

Eudlo train station was one the stations flagged for closure in a leaked Queensland Rail memo. Photo:Barry Leddicoat/181497

Terry Cullen is never sure if he will be sitting or standing, but he is certain of one thing ? the $2500 he pays for his yearly ticket to use Queensland Rail?s Sunshine Coast train service is not worth it.

Mr Cullen, who for the past 12 years has been the chairman of the Sunshine Coast Commuters Association, was disgusted to learn of a leaked memo revealing QR was planning to close a number of Coast train stations.

The move would have forced thousands of commuters to use buses.

The reason for the mooted closures was that QR feared passengers could fall off trains too long for station platforms.

?I?ve been trying for years to get temporary extensions fitted to all platforms too short for the trains,? Mr Cullen said.

?The trains are six carriages long and many of the platforms are only long enough to take three carriages. At Eudlo station the platform can only fit one carriage.

?QR has a lot to answer for. The Coast?s train services have been lagging for years.

?The management at QR really need to pick up their game and improve the Coast?s facilities.?

Eight Coast stations ? Pomona, Eumundi, Woombye, Palmwoods, Eudlo, Mooloolah, Beerburrum and Cooran ? were listed for closure because their platforms were not long enough.

According to the memo, QR feared commuters would use the emergency door release to force train doors open, possibly resulting in a fall. QR later rejected the move and labelled the memo ?unauthorised?.

Paul Scurrah, QR?s passenger executive general manager, said Sunshine Coast services to stations with short platforms would not be cancelled.

?Safety is QR?s highest priority and we continually assess the safety of our operations to improve our services for passengers,? he said.

?QR is currently investigating a range of longer term solutions, including temporary platforms.?

[rob2144]

I caught the up Gympielander this morning and what a farce it was, i had to stand to Landsborough untill the guard unlocked the interconnecting door, most passengers were p%ssed  off over the cramped and dangerous conditions, QR are determined to p%ss Sunshine Coast passengers off as much as they can!

I also overheard some passengers saying since this started trains have been up to 15mins late!

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Rob2144,

I and my fellow long-distance travellers are amused and annoyed at this so called
"Zero Harm" policy and are still wondering what the circumstances were for it's introduction.
We hope it isn't a 'knee jerk' policy that was implemented because someone acted irresponsibly.

I contacted QR over a week ago asking what the policy is exactly and why was it introduced ?
I haven't heard back to date ...

It all comes down to communication again. 

Regards,
Fares_fair

[Arnz]

I caught the up Gympielander this morning and what a farce it was, i had to stand to Landsborough untill the guard unlocked the interconnecting door, most passengers were p%ssed  off over the cramped and dangerous conditions, QR are determined to p%ss Sunshine Coast passengers off as much as they can!

I also overheard some passengers saying since this started trains have been up to 15mins late!

Also QR can yet introduce a "safety policy" for the North Coast and Rosewood lines.  Yet, they keep refusing to provide toilets on most afternoon peak/evening Nambour services (the only services that are provided with toilets are the 5:17pm Nambour IMU and the 5:37pm Gympielander ICE). The 6:06pm is usually meant to be a ICE, but is more often serviced by SMU220/SMU260s more often than not. 

Poor form, QR.  Very poor form.

At the same time, Nambour commuters can clearly see 1-2 IMUs in the Depot at Mayne, or IMUs running to everywhere else on the suburban network.  Indeed Sunshine Coast commuters are the red-headed stepchild of the network right now.

[Fares_Fair]

I again submitted an email to QR regarding the new Zero Harm policy as I havent yet received a reply.
It is reproduced below.

"I contacted this site over 2 weeks ago requesting information on QR's new Zero Harm policy.
Can you please tell me precisely what it is and what were the circumstances (if any) that led to its introduction?
I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply.
Thank you."

The guards on a service were heard ridiculing the policy, and said no-one else they knew of had ever heard of anyone falling off a train at a short platform.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Arnz]

The guards on a service were heard ridiculing the policy, and said no-one else they knew of had ever heard of anyone falling off a train at a short platform.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

Was on a recent Bowen Hills-Corinda via Tennyson morning service.  Overheard staff riduculing this policy and having only the back 3-cars open on this particular service (since it was stopping at Tennyson)

[ozbob]

As frustrating as all this is.  I think for what ever reason it came down to either modification of operating practices or cessation of services to the short platforms.  Crazy yes, trains have been operating at short platforms and wayside stops since railways started.  Obviously something must have happened to cause risk assessments to be done.

It is part of a wider problem in society IMHO.  There is a lack of individual responsibility, all too often responsibilities of an individual to exercise due care and attention are now subverted into organisational targets such as QR.  No better example than the attitude of people at railway crossings.

QR will be looking at accelerating temporary extensions to short platforms now I am sure.

[mufreight]

QR as a corporate body is required to conduct safety audits of its operations on an ongoing basis.
When dealing with the public in this day and age the standards that applied in years gone by are no longer acceptiable and with the more litigious nature of society and a lack of personal responsibility it has become necessicary to take steps to protect those using the rail system from the consequences of their actions be they illconsidered or inadverdent that may result in personal injury and disruption to the system.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello all,

There seems to be an aura of mystery about the new Zero Harm policy.
Why is it such a secret ?

I received a very interesting response from QR regarding my request for information
on the Zero Harm policy and the reason for its implementation.
I was taken aback actually.
It is reproduced below with identifying details removed.
My original (second) request is reproduced at the bottom of this section.

Dear Mr Fares_Fair

Thank you for your email.  I have searched our records and regret to advise we do not have a copy of any previous correspondence from you.

I have made enquiries on your behalf and have been requested by senior management to ask you to identify yourself (business background) and provide information as to why you are seeking information about QR's Zery(sic) Harm policy.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

***** ******* | Customer Relations Officer | QR Passenger Pty Ltd
P 07 3235 ****  F 07 3235 **** 
E clu@qr.com.au  W www.qr.com.au
Upper Floor, Central Concourse, 305 Edward St, Brisbane QLD 4000
GPO Box 1429, Brisbane QLD 4001

________________________________________
Query ID:   *****

Name:  Mr ***** ********
Email:  protectcommuter@blah.com.au

Phone:  0434 123 456

Query:   I contacted this site over 2 weeks ago requesting information on QR`s new Zero Harm policy.
Can you please tell me precisely what it is and what were the circumstances (if any) that led to its introduction.
I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply.
Thank you.

Response Method:  Email

Date/Time Of Query: Tuesday, 31 March 2009 8:15:56 PM

[O_128]

What the hell was that. why do they need your business background.
If QR/translink cannot even manage to find an email how can we trust them running trains

[Fares_Fair]

I do not know O_128,

I gave them my full name, mobile phone number and email address in the email I sent.
My business background had nothing whatsoever to do with my request.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fridge]

Over the week or more I have noticed that there are security guards at the pedestrian crossings at Palmwoods and Woombye, and as far as I can see only in the mornings.  For those who don't know these crossings are not gated or have flashing lights.   

[rob2144]

Over the week or more I have noticed that there are security guards at the pedestrian crossings at Palmwoods and Woombye, and as far as I can see only in the mornings.  For those who don't know these crossings are not gated or have flashing lights.   

And the is also a speed restriction over these crossings

[ozbob]

Presently on EMU66  Corinda via Tennyson.  Announcements at Central and by the guard to the effect passengers for Tennyson travel in the last 3 carriages.

EMU 66 shortly after arrival at Corinda



Photograph R Dow 21st May 2009

[Arnz]

It seems to have become a regular practice for guards on ICEs or 6-car trains heading northbound on the North Coast line to announce over the PA before Landsborough that "due to the safety policy, all passengers travelling beyond Landsborough is to move to the front 3 cars, due to the short platforms at stations beyond Landsborough". 

The "Safety Initiative/Zero Harm" isn't a automatic annoucement if a given service is operated by a 6-car IMU160/SMU260, so guards have to press the "beeps" to announce this at Landsborough after the usual "next station auto-annoucement".

There is usually a 3-4min delay at Landsborough heading north so the guard/driver can shut down the back 3-carriages (or back carriage/s in the case of the ICE).

[ozbob]

From the Sunday Mail 14th June 2009 page 21

We're 'jammed in like sardines'

[ozbob]

It is time some other solution was found to manage the short platforms.

Trains have been stopping at wayside stops and short platforms since railways began.  Individual responsibility and accountability must come into play.  If a truck can hit a train, kill and maim with  no real accountability, isn't the possibility of a silly passenger attempting to leave a train not at a platform irrelevant in such scenarios?

The Zero Harm policy needs to be tempered with COMMON SENSE!

If roads operated to a zero harm policy no road vehicle would move!

[brad C]

I couldn't agree more bob.
But what would they do with the T Shirts, posters , Caps and Bunting that is part of the package.
QR certainly wallows in it. I've seen signs placed on the stormwater drainage pits in the carparks at rail stations advising people not to enter this confined space ( a pit about 600 deep) God help us if this is considered a priority.
Who remembers the old evans red sets with the swing doors openeable from the outside?
When stopping at most southside stations (up until 1978 on Beenleigh line and up until Aug 1981 on Lota Branch) and stations north of petrie (until April 1984), where low level platforms abounded, the seasoned (and presumably non whimpy) commuter either jumped down to the platform surface or used the running board steps to alight. Ah but this was before litigation became an industry in its own right.

I overheard a driver report a track side worker to Control because he did not have his safety vest done up in the front.
Unfortunately this culture seens endemic in QR!!

[O_128]

People are idiots simple. With all of the civil cases today people have realized that they don't need any accountability whatsoever. Only this week i realized i can drive into a train MURDER 11 people and getaway with it. All it takes is one stupid person to trip and twist there ankle and hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuits against QR