QAO: Traveltrain renewal: Sunlander 14

[ozbob]

Queensland Audit Office

Report 8: 2014-15

https://www.qao.qld.gov.au/reports-resources/traveltrain-renewal-sunlander-14

Traveltrain renewal: Sunlander 14

"The Sunlander 14 project was initiated to replace the existing Sunlander diesel-hauled locomotive train with a new tilt train and to upgrade the two existing Cairns tilt trains.

This report examines the Traveltrain renewal program and focuses more specifically on the Sunlander 14 project.

It assesses the planning, governance and decision-making processes for both the original decision to replace the Sunlander rollingstock and the subsequent decision to de-scope the project."

Report > https://www.qao.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/reports/rtp_traveltrain_renewal_sunlander_14.pdf

" ... The Sunlander 14 project is a case study in obfuscation and ill-informed decision making. ... "

[Ari 🚋]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the railbeds on the Spirit of Queensland pretty consistently booked out, and the train in general pretty busy most of the time? I feel like in that case bringing in extra carriages, in particularly sleepers, would have been a good decision (although this might not have been able to be predicted at the time)

[Redrient]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the railbeds on the Spirit of Queensland pretty consistently booked out, and the train in general pretty busy most of the time? I feel like in that case bringing in extra carriages, in particularly sleepers, would have been a good decision (although this might not have been able to be predicted at the time)

I travelled in 2021 during the COVID restrictions which blocked out every 2nd seat (only for the aisle in the double seats for the Railbeds), in the premium economy seats between Cairns and Townsville, and in Railbed from Townsville to Caboolture. The premium economy Cairns - Townsville leg was about half full (1/4 if it were full capacity), which is not unexpected as that section is much slower than driving; the railbeds from Townsville to South-East QLD were full (within the context of COVID restrictions), but most travellers appeared to be retirees and were probably travelling on travel vouchers (assuming those are still a thing).

In short, railbeds seem popular, but having also travelled on Spirit of the Outback in 2022, where all the single and twin rooms were full in both directions, I can say with some confidence that private rooms are probably even more popular.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yes and no. Depends on a few factors given its distance and time.

Sleepers were a lot better than what's now on offer. Yes it was slower but the sleepers was great for that. You could enjoy the scenery. The noise was low so you didn't hear people snore, fart, cough, talking, annoying children or be disturbed when anyone banged walking past you. You had leg room. You had space. You had proper darkness when you wanted to sleep and the mood lighting along the corridor outside your room. You could take more luggage onboard with you. You weren't locked into a seat and the buffet car was a proper buffet car. The SOTO has a sleeper but it's not the true sleepers that the sunlander had.

The sleepers were always booked out well well well in advance on the sunlander and multiple stops at stations were required as a result.

[SurfRail]

We could afford to spend some decent money on the Brisbane-Cairns route if we weren't throwing money down the black holes that are the Inlander and the Westlander.  Virtually everywhere on those routes you would be better off travelling to or between by bus or plane.  There is no point in those trains still running whatsoever, especially when the government doesn't rely on the goodwill of people out there or the votes of the local members.  Just rip the bloody bandaid off already.

[Redrient]

We could afford to spend some decent money on the Brisbane-Cairns route if we weren't throwing money down the black holes that are the Inlander and the Westlander.  Virtually everywhere on those routes you would be better off travelling to or between by bus or plane.  There is no point in those trains still running whatsoever, especially when the government doesn't rely on the goodwill of people out there or the votes of the local members.  Just rip the bloody bandaid off already.

Bit of a hot take from me, but having been to both Charleville and Longreach on their respective train services, I think Charleville is actually a better place to visit as a tourist. If promoted properly, I see potential for the train to pick up some of the tourist market out there if the right service offerings are available. The daylight run from Roma to Charleville is quite a nice 5-6 hour ride. I'd definitely go back on the train if I could get a bed and a proper meal.

[ozbob]

My last journey on the Westy was 2012 - still had sleepers and the buffet car.

Was a very enjoyable trip, comfortable and leisurely.  I have travelled 1000s of miles in the sleepers, similar to the ones that were on the Sunlander which I travelled on reasonably often in my digger days.

Although I had media commitments at Charleville, still managed to have a nice luncheon at the RSL before the return trip.

Agree Redrient, sleepers and a diner are needed to get it properly back on track!



R Dow April 2012

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not a fan of those biscuits and microwave meals Bob?

For those that don't recall the sleepers of past were different from the sleepers present. There was a small corridor on one side of the carriage and a proper sized room. The buffet car had a proper kitchen and booths you could sit at. You'd also get a meal ticket so you would be reserved a table to sit at.

[verbatim9]

I wonder if they can order dual mode trains similar to the NSW plan. This can allow the trains to run on the eLectric network where available.

[SurfRail]

I was certainly happy to travel on both trains before the sleepers and buffet cars were decommissioned (the burgers were definitely a selling point), but you really need to ask if it's worth it even with those amenities brought back. 

The things carried virtually nobody even back then given they only run twice a week.  On all my trips (Charleville and return on the Westie, Townsville to Mount Isa one-way on the Inlander), I'm pretty sure I had a whole M class sleeper to myself.  There's no advantage in running a railway unless you need to move something in bulk.  The lines clearly have a future, but passenger trains of any kind I doubt very much.  The State has far too many other transport priorities to fund even just within the rail network to be p%ssing this money up the wall.

Flights and buses are not only more frequent and cheaper for the State to fund, but significantly faster.  Why would anybody want to catch a train out there unless they were a complete tragic like one of us, and is that really something worth pinging everybody else for?

[Ari 🚋]

All this conversation is further cementing an opinion I thought was a bit foam but maybe not - we need to bring back actual, proper sleepers and dining cars to long distance trains (assuming the train itself makes sense). That's something you don't get on a plane let alone in a car, and it absolutely would sell people on it even if the trip itself takes longer

[SurfRail]

^ I think they absolutely belong on the Spirit of Queensland - at least 2 sleepers and a proper buffet car added to the consists. 

Whatever is bought to replace the loco hauled cars and the diesel tilts should be bi-mode (so can run under the wires as far north as Rockhampton).  There should be enough stock to run a daily Brisbane-Cairns service in both directions (if not better) plus the SOTO.  I expect there could still be straight electrics that only go as far as Bundy and Rocky - given existing transit times and potential for improvement there is probably not much of a case to configure those for sleepers but maybe there could be railbed type seating in 1 or 2 cars at premium pricing.

Also - something I noticed a little while ago in early January - I saw an IMU100 and/or 120 6 car train showing "Rockhampton" running express through Eagle Junction, plenty of passengers and with a lot of baggage piled up in the last car.  Was that train actually running the 11am Rocky Tilt service or doing something else?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Inlander/Westlander it's hard to justify buffet and sleepers. Sunlander and STO you can very easily justify it.

[ozbob]

Not a fan of those biscuits and microwave meals Bob?

For those that don't recall the sleepers of past were different from the sleepers present. There was a small corridor on one side of the carriage and a proper sized room. The buffet car had a proper kitchen and booths you could sit at. You'd also get a meal ticket so you would be reserved a table to sit at.

No, I am not HTG.  Having dined (and wined) on the some of the great trains of the day, I consider myself fortunate to have had the experiences. It made for a great journey, and I did enjoy meeting folk.

One trip from Roma St to Townsville, I was suitably prepped with a few ' refreshments ' at the Roma St RRR before boarding.  On boarding and moving to my sleeper cabin, I discovered I was sharing with a policeman heading to Marlborough. He too was ' well stocked ' with refreshments, this turned out to be quite a trip. After the bar closed on the train he managed to get us both back into the bar and we shared a few more ' refreshments ' with the car crew. 
Ha ha ... such is life!