Are electric cars a solution?

[ozbob]

If you search the web you will find a large number of interesting reports on electric vehicles.  Sometimes touted as the next solution the reality is they are not.  To replace the present petrol fleet of cars with an electric equivalent (ignoring the technical limitations)  would need an increase in electricity generation capacity anywhere from 2 to 6 times the present outputs for a start.  Hydrogen powered vehicles, intrinsically attractive, burn hydrogen and oxygen you get water ...  where does the hydrogen come from?.  It takes a lot of electrical energy to make hydrogen in the amounts that would be needed.  Ok biofuels?  Ethanol, bio diesel and so forth.  Some utility but simply not possible to produce the amounts that would be needed to replace the present car fleet, let alone projections.  Hybrids?   I have had a hybrid car for 4 years, they are very fuel efficient and will give a buffer against price rises of oil, but they are expensive and need a higher energy input to construct.  But if every car was a hybrid the fuel consumption of Australia would be halved or thereabouts.  Only an interim solution from my view point.

So as oil becomes an increasingly expensive and restricted resource, supplies will be rationed for essential needs including the military. Rail will become the mode for all long haul freight, and I would suggest passenger transport as well.  Electric rail is very efficient.  There is a lot of work going on with sustainable power generation and this will be sufficient for rail needs.

Electric vehicles will be used for local delivery and I suggest taxis.  Some of the more well to do may have personal electric vehicles.  The present road systems are more than adequate now.  We must start on establishing the necessary rail links and planning for the changes that are on the way.  Other nations are well on the way, Australia largely still has its eyes shut.  Wake up!!

[johnnigh]

So fire up those coal-fired power stations, get Hazelwood into top gear for Melbourne's electric cars and just see the CO2 emissions rocket! 

There's little relief from environmental purity short of getting rid of mechanically powered private transport.

[#Metro]

Ha. The battery would run flat sitting in congestion. And what will be done with the millions and millions of batteries to power these things.
We have been hearing about the advent of the electric car for decades and decades, and they have not gone mainstream yet. We already have the public transport version of the electric car- electric trolleybuses, electric trams, and electric trains.

Why re-invent the wheel again???

[Jonno]

Electric cars do not solve conestion so the cars stuck in horrendous congestion are electric and if we keep building more roads people just end up traveling further as well. They are part if the solution to reduce them emissions of the 25% of trips that have to be by motor vehicle but they in no way THE solution.

[somebody]

Electric cars do not solve conestion so the cars stuck in horrendous congestion are electric and if we keep building more roads people just end up traveling further as well. They are part if the solution to reduce them emissions of the 25% of trips that have to be by motor vehicle but they in no way THE solution.

That's about right.

[ozbob]

Interesting commentary from an American perspective

Electric Cars Aren't Really Green; They're Just Less Gray

" .... So, if you really want to be green, it's better to get pumped about light rails instead of Leafs. "

Leafs = Nissan Leaf an electric vehicle

[colinw]

Single occupant vehicles are not the answer, no matter how they are powered.

I really do not see hybrid vehicles like the Prius solving much in the way of problems.  It is still a big heavy lump of vehicle, with a high environmental cost covering manufacture, transport of the thing from its country of origin, chemicals in battery systems & who knows what else?

Biofuels - not a chance.  To convert the entire transport needs of the world over to bio-ethanol we would need about four Earths worth of crop space, not to mention taking away food cropping.

The answers are, in my opinion:

- Sustainable mass transit (rail, bus, whatever)
- Travel less! Live near where you work, or work from home if your job permits it.

My job is one that could be performed almost entirely from home, and I do in fact work from home some of the time, logging in via VPN.  I find those home days are often the most productive, because they are free of distractions.  The only reason I don't do it with a formal agreement for some number of days per week is the boofheaded attitude of my employer - they simply are not prepared to consider it.

This is one of the reasons I hate the idea of satellite cities like Flagstone.  Unless everyone has a job that can be done remotely, or works in the local area, then we are creating an entire city of 100,000+ who will be dependent on a long distance commute.  Even if rail gets an 80% share of that commute, that is still a big energy burn to get those people to work compared to working near where you live.

While I applaud the success of lines like Gold Coast & Mandurah, I do question whether it is desirable to have these 70+ km commutes to work at all.

[#Metro]

While I applaud the success of lines like Gold Coast & Mandurah, I do question whether it is desirable to have these 70+ km commutes to work at all.

I think it is important to have the connection. The rail line is great for going to the Gold or Sunshine Coasts without a car.
Without the rail line, you would not be able to go there.

My view is that if SEQ goes down that path, these places need to get a strong town centre (i.e mini-CBD) built around rail stations with business that will anchor the rest there.
Canberra, and even Sydney is probably the closest to this model. However this is not a panacea either. Sydney has Paramatta, Canberra has Belconnen and Woden- and people still
travel around everywhere.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Electric car charging stations to be built across Queensland

Southport's Rodney Peachey is one of the first 700 Queenslanders to own an electric car, having owned his Tesla for three months.

Soon, Mr Peachy's car will have a wider range, following the launch of Queensland's first-ever network of electric car chargers.

If all goes to plan, Queensland will have 18 electric vehicle charging stations along the coastline and west to Toowoomba within six months.

For the first 12 months, they will be available for use free to charge.

The chargers will be between 100 and 210 kilometres apart and the network will cost taxpayers about $3 million to put in place and to fund the 12 months of free charging.

Mr Peachey's Tesla P100 D has a range of 500 kilometres when it is fully charged.

In addition to the 700 electric cars in Queensland, there are also aviyt 15,000 petrol/electric hybrids.

Chargers will be built at:

    Cairns;
    Tully;
    Townsville;
    Bowen;
    Mackay;
    Carmila;
    Marlborough;
    Rockhampton;
    Miriam Vale;
    Childers;
    Maryborough;
    Cooroy;
    Brisbane;
    Helensvale;
    Coolangatta;
    Springfield;
    Gatton; and
    Toowoomba.

The biggest distance between the chargers is in north Queensland, with 202 kilometres between Bowen andTownsville, and 208 kilometres between Townsville and Tully.

"In the initial stage this will be provided free of charge and it will be sourced from renewable energy, or from offset sources," acting Main Roads and Environment Minister Steven Miles said at Thursday's launch.

"They will be available for use at no cost for the initial phase of the super highway so we can encourage as many people as possible to start using them."

After that, they will cost about $45 per month.

The range of electic cars vary, withthe Nissan Leaf able to drive188 kilometres, which will push motorists driving between some Queensland charging stations to the limit.

A Hyuandi Ioniq Electric has a range of 199 kilometres. The Chevrolet Bolt can travel 383 kilometres.

Teslas have a range of around 539 kilometres.

Most are now available in Australia.

Mr Peachey said electric cars were more efficient in "stop-start" traffic, similar to the halting, jolting traffic on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.

"It gets better distance if it is stop-start traffic," he said.

"I get around 650 kilometres in that sort of traffic."

Mr Peachey and fellow electric car owner, Ray Newman, were both converts to the world of electric cars.

"I think in the next two or three years, there will be all types of electric cars when they see what the Tesla can do," Mr Peachey said.

His service bills are lower, with no gearbox, "no grease and oil change" and only the brake fluid to change every two years. Mr Peachy pays several hundred dollars for an annual check.

Mr Newman also drives an American-made Tesla which he bought 2½ years ago when it was relatively expensive, coming at a price tag of $128,000.

While the cost was "comparable" to his Mercedes-Benz, Mr Newman siad it was a lot cheaper to run.

"I just plug it in at home, which costs me a bit of $1000 a year in electricity," Mr Newman said.

Mr Newman, who has driven his Tesla to Sydney and back five times and down to Melbourne over Christmas, has racked up 50,000 kilometres on his odometer.

New South Wales and Victoria already have a network of electric chargers, to which the car's satellite navigation system guides Mr Newman.

"Here, it is a little bit more sparse, but this is certainly going to help," he said.

Mr Newman said driving longer distances with electric cars was getting easier.

"It is already feasible, " Mr Newman said.

"It is just a little slow if you have to stop (overnight) at a destination changeover," he said.

"It just means you have to stay overnight if you want to charge up."

Residential and workplaces use portable AC chargers and charge overnight.

The chargers at the 18 Queensland sites will be bigger and not easily moved, but they will charge faster and have different connection leads to suit different electric cars.

They use direct current and can charge a vehicle to 80 per cent of its battery capacity within 30 minutes.

Electric Vehicle Council chief executive Behyad Jafari said the state government had sent a good message to the industry.

"This initial support from government serves as a signal to the market that Queensland is serious about electric vehicles and provides certainty to unlock investment to grow our economy and create new, high skilled jobs,"  he said.

"I encourage all governments across Australia to follow suit, particularly as this support will help to provide motorists with increased choice of cars that are cheaper and healthier to operate."

[verbatim9]

New Generation EVs "UTES and SUVS"

[verbatim9]

Next Generation EV VW Kombi

[verbatim9]

Electric car expo at the Sunshine Coast

https://twitter.com/7NewsSC/status/1142996045699268609

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Charging electric cars in Queensland will be 'half the cost of petrol'

Drivers of electric cars in Queensland will pay 45¢ per kilowatt hour at most to charge their vehicles, about half the cost of fuelling up with petrol.

Until now, the state government's network of 31 electric car charging stations - between Cairns and Coolangatta and from Brisbane inland to Toowoomba - has been free.

But drivers would be charged a fee to use Queensland's electric super highway within weeks, sources told Brisbane Times.

A spokesman for Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said Yurika Energy was in negotiations with a private firm partner to charge a price below 45¢ per kilowatt hour.

"This equates to about $20 for 300 kilometres of driving range," Yurika Energy general manager Charles Rattray said.

On Tuesday, petrol prices around Brisbane were about $1.63 a litre.

Prices on Queensland's electric super highway – or QESH – are set by Yurika Energy, the sustainable energy arm of Energy Queensland. The network itself is managed by private company Chargefox.

Chargefox chief executive Marty Andrews said the company had worked in Australia and New Zealand over the past two years with councils, shopping centre retailers such as Westfield and equipment suppliers to put electric car chargers in place.

Mr Andrews said most electric car charging stations around Australia - similar to QESH - now charged less than 45¢ per kilowatt hour.

"For them, around the country, they range from about 25¢ to 45¢ per kilowatt hour," he said.

"So it's around one-half to one-third the cost of petrol."

Queensland's network of electric chargers has been promoted awkwardly, with limited signage.

Mr Andrews said Brisbane improvements were being discussed.

At Toombul Shopping Centre, home to two of Queensland's fastest electric car charging stations, where a driver can add 400 kilometres to an electric car's driving range in 15 minutes, there are no signs to find the stations.

The latest fast chargers are on the shopping centre's roof, while the older chargers – mostly for Tesla vehicles – are in the undercover car park, where they can be located by mobile phone.

"For most of Queensland's electric super highway, chargers are visible from the street, but in places like Toombul they are in the shopping centre's large car park," Mr Andrews said.

"We are building in instructions to our mobile phone app so you know what level on the car park you go to, but we are also working with the owners of those buildings to provide signage and directions."

Mr Andrews said Adelaide City Council has added digital signage in council-run car parks letting motorists find the charging stations, as an example.

Brisbane-based Tritium, which provides electric car chargers to 70 per cent of Australia's sites and 3000 sites outside Australia, recently introduced fast electric chargers at some Queensland sites.

Most of Queensland's electric super highway chargers are 50 kilowatt hour DC chargers, which can add 75 kilometres to a car's range in 15 minutes.

Mr Andrews estimated the cost of an electric car would reach parity with petrol cars in fleet sales by 2021-22 and car dealerships shortly afterwards.

"I think in 2025-26 mums and dads will walk into a showroom and the sticker price on an electric car will be the same as or lower than the sticker price on a petrol vehicle."

The Queensland government planned to expand the number of electric vehicles in its fleet from 18 in 2018 to 288 in 2022, according to the Department of Housing and Public Works.

Mr Andrews said 12,500 electric cars were now registered in Australia, less than 1 per cent of total vehicle sales.

[ozbob]

Why ACCC says electric cars are 'unfair' https://t.co/1lYEI06RKc

— ozbob13 (@ozbob13) August 4, 2019

Couriermail --> ACCC says gas guzzlers subsidise electric cars, calls for change in how we pay for roads

Australia's consumer watchdog says electric car owners have an unfair advantage over poorer people driving gas-guzzlers and are calling for a huge change to way we pay for our roads. Here's why.

WEALTHY motorists who can afford flash electric cars are unfairly using roads for free at the expense of poorer drivers, consumer tsar Rod Sims said yesterday.

Mr Sims, who chairs the Federal Government's Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), said it was unfair that electric car owners were exempt from the 41 cent per litre fuel tax, which pays for roads.

He called on the government to abolish the fuel excise and replace it with a hi-tech levy based on the distance driven.

"Whenever you fill up your car, 41 cents a litre is going (in taxes) to pay for your road use,'' Mr Sims told The Courier-Mail yesterday.

"People who buy electric cars are travelling on roads without cost, and that's really not fair.

"Why should they have an advantage over people driving petrol cars?''

Mr Sims said it was also unfair that motorists who could afford new fuel-efficient cars were paying less fuel tax than those with old-model gas-guzzlers.

"The older cars are less fuel efficient, so they pay more to use the roads,'' he said. "How's that fair?''

Mr Sims said the Federal Government should find a different way of charging for road use, by using tracking technology to charge motorists for the distance driven, or the time spent driving.

"You could lower or remove the petrol excise and charge motorists when they use a road, or where they use it,'' he said.

"Technology can track where and when you're going.''

The Federal Government will pocket $13.4 billion in fuel excise this financial year, but spend just $6.6 billion on roads and rail.

The Royal Automobile Club of Queensland (RACQ) yesterday said Queensland would receive $1.78 billion in road funding this financial year — slightly more than what motorists will contribute in fuel excise.

RACQ head of public policy Rebecca Michael said Australia needs a "fairer and more sustainable'' way of paying for roads.

"With the rise of fuel efficient and ultra-low emission vehicles, this revenue stream is under threat and likely to result in less funding for road and rail into the future,'' she said yesterday.

"The current system is unfair as those with ultra-low emission vehicles are not contributing to the upkeep of the road network.

"We need road user charging reform to ensure everyone is paying their fair share.''

Mr Sims said the fuel excise — which is now paid into Treasury coffers for spending across all areas of government — should be set aside and spent only on roads.

All motorists, including electric vehicle owners, also contribute to road funding by paying an annual registration fee to the State Government.

[verbatim9]

The South-East will soon be home to the fastest electric vehicle charging station in the country. @ParisMartin_9 #9News https://t.co/Z84CBGMiiF

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1193810522203799553

[verbatim9]

Looks like Victoria and South Australia are to  bring in distance based tolling for electric vehicles. I think this is premature and they should wait for further uptake of EVs.

Distance tolling for transport is the way of the future but to impose this measure on EVs while uptake is low can be counter productive.

[wandering_fred]

Add excise tax to the public chargeable charging stations.
Provides incentive to use your home/work solar powered station....

[Gazza]

Looks like Victoria and South Australia are to  bring in distance based tolling for electric vehicles. I think this is premature and they should wait for further uptake of EVs.

Distance tolling for transport is the way of the future but to impose this measure on EVs while uptake is low can be counter productive.

This is how I feel.
There should be a distance based tax to replace fuel excise, because EVs still cause congestion, but the tax should just have maybe a staged introduction, eg when uptake reaches 10% or something to give them a chance.

This would achieve two policy goals. It would still lock in a future revenue stream, but it would also encourage some uptake by people wanting to beat the tax.

[ozbob]

Annastacia Palaszczuk @AnnastaciaMP

We're making electric vehicles more affordable and accessible for more Queenslanders.

From 1 July, we will provide a $3,000 subsidy for anyone buying an electric vehicle to the value of $58,000 – that means subsidies will apply to six models currently available in Queensland.

We're also committing $10 million to build more public charging stations, with new stations jointly-funded with local government and private sector.

This will help Queenslanders waiting for electric vehicles to become more accessible and affordable so they can make the switch.

This announcement is a key part of our Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy: the goal is to reduce our emissions and reduce the impact of climate change.

[ozbob]

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/94702

Palaszczuk Government supercharges the future of electric vehicles
16th March 2022

JOINT STATEMENT

Premier and Minister for the Olympics
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Minister for Energy, Renewables and Hydrogen and Minister for Public Works and Procurement
The Honourable Mick de Brenni

Minister for the Environment and the Great Barrier Reef and Minister for Science and Youth Affairs
The Honourable Meaghan Scanlon

Queensland is driving full throttle into a zero-emissions future, today announcing a $55 million package including thousands of dollars in incentives to supercharge clean energy transport.

The Premier made the announcement while releasing the new EV strategy Queensland Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy 2022-2032 which would help drive the state's commitment of net-zero by 2050.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the investment would make electric vehicles more affordable for Queenslanders.

"We are going to make the cost of buying electric cars just that little bit cheaper," the Premier said.

"My government will provide a $3,000 subsidy for anyone buying an electric vehicle to the value of $58,000."

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said this is an important step towards making Queensland a global leader in the world's low-emissions future, and becoming a renewable energy superpower.

"We were the first Australian state to develop an EV strategy, and now we are once again leading the way with Queensland's Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy 2022-2032," he said.

"This will see Queenslanders get money back for switching to electric vehicles, and the Palaszczuk Government build more charging infrastructure across the Sunshine State.

"We revolutionised electric vehicle travel through the Queensland Electric Super Highway, which is currently being expanded to almost 3800km, and now Queenslanders will have even more charging stations to use.

"Not only does this encourage people to buy electric vehicles, it gives the automotive industry confidence to set up shop in Queensland.

"This strategy signals a fundamental shift in our transport system."

Mr Bailey said Queensland is already reaping the benefits from the Palaszczuk Government's commitment that by 2025 every new urban bus added to the SEQ fleet will be zero-emissions.

"We've seen local manufacturers like Bustech at Burleigh, and Volgren in Eagle Farm thrive since we made that commitment, because it gave them certainty," he said.

"Brisbane based Tritium was supported by Queensland's first EV strategy and is now excelling into the US electric vehicle market – demonstrating the power behind the EV sector.

"It's creating highly-skilled local manufacturing jobs.

"Queensland is one of the sunniest and windiest places on earth and can become a renewable energy superpower, creating a sustainable jobs boom."

Energy, Renewables and Hydrogen Minister Mick de Brenni said the Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy would support more Queenslanders to make a contribution to transport emissions reduction.

"As a government we will be leaders too, taking direct action by supercharging our government fleet - QFleet, to become electric, going EV-first for all new vehicles where there is a suitable EV option," Mr de Brenni said.

"Transforming the QFleet will save Queenslanders millions in fuel costs but most significantly, when they have done their service with frontline workers - our nurses, community carers and educators – these high quality, fully serviced, usually low kilometre used vehicles will be available for Queenslanders at highly affordable prices.

"That will deliver a clear signal and pipeline to car manufacturers, battery and minerals manufacturers and charging infrastructure manufacturers that Queensland is the place to grow their business and continue to build on our States's successful jobs and economic results."

Mr de Brenni said putting more EVs on the road was just one part of the strategy to achieve Queensland's emissions reductions targets.

"We are working now on building rules that would transform the family EV in to the family battery – plugging into solar at work, or in major carparks, charging up when the sun is shining – and then, with bi-directional charging capacity, putting electricity back into the home when the sun has set or the wind isn't blowing," he said.

"The strategy outlines that we have already commenced complementary reforms to tariffs, building rules and planning approaches and the electricity grid augmentation an EV transformation will require; all of which will be further outlined in the forthcoming Queensland Energy Plan."

Environment Minister Meaghan Scanlon said encouraging the take-up of electric vehicles together with the Palaszczuk Government's commitment for zero emissions buses would help to drive down transport emissions in the state and support new jobs in new industries. 

"This is a government that backs action on climate change," Minister Scanlon said. 

"Transport is the second biggest emitter in Queensland but is rapidly evolving to embrace zero emissions technology.

"This announcement is a key part of our Queensland Climate Action Plan to drive down emissions and create more jobs in the state.

"In just a few short years we've seen the demand for EVs come up, the cost of EV technology come down, more EV businesses in Queensland and more EV infrastructure come online.

"And this is another step to help Queenslanders who want to get into the seat of an electric vehicle.

"Queensland is seizing the opportunities to act on climate change, create jobs and set Queensland in a nation-leading position for the future."

Committed with the ZEV Strategy is:

$45 million for $3000 incentives for upfront electric vehicle purchases
$10 million for charging infrastructure.
For more information, visit https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/zero-emission-strategy