2008 Citytrain Patronage data (Early 2008)

[Arnz]

Download the document below to view Citytrain patronage data for peak periods as captured in the Passenger Load Survey data conducted during February to March 2008.

http://www.citytrain.com.au/Images/200808_citytrain_patronage_data_tcm17-23893.pdf

Not suprisingly the lines that are the most crowded in Peak Periods are....

1. Ipswich Line / Caboolture Line - 21%
2. Nambour Line - 20%
3. Ferny Grove - 18%
4. Gold Coast - 8%
5. Cleveland - 4%.

[jason]

are you we for real?

the way everyone bitches around town its like EVERY SERVICE is overcrowded

man Brisbane should just wake up to the fact that we have one of the better public transport systems around

Or are we just a bunch of complainers?

[ozbob]

This in general confirms our observations and feedback.

In fact today I was asked to predict the most congested and I nominated the Caboolture/Ipswich line.

On the money ....

Where are our trains that were promised by the Ministers Office for these lines??

There are a number of problems with certain services being overloaded, these need to be addressed as there are some health and safety issues.  People fainting etc. and the fact that the load limit (998 pax for a six car set) is being exceeded.  They are meant to be running with about 750.  The critical figures are ones with > 998 pax and doesn't take into account the latent loadings (those who cannot board).

This is also old data, prior to the latest impacts of fuel price rises.  Observations would suggest that the congestion is now worse than earlier this year.

It is good that some data has been released, previously it was refused.

[stephenk]

Interesting figures, although I wonder at what level do QR decide a train is overcrowded? Also the number of trains in peak hour should have been provided as it affects the % figures, as well as the times the data was sampled.

These figures are pre-Gold Coast Line upgrade, interesting that the Nambour Line is apparently more overcrowded than the Gold Coast Line!


Jason - stop pointlessly stirring. We DO NOT have one of the best public transport systems around! We have service gaps of over 20mins at major stations/lines in the peaks, a pathetic 30min off-peak service, filthy and badly maintained trains (broken seats, doors, motors), a lack of trains to provide decent enough service, poor infrastructure (many single track sections, few grade seperated junctions), and approx 10% of trains run late (or not at all). I have lived in London for 9 years, and used rail transport during the rush hour in Paris, Madrid, Berlin, Brussels, Lisbon, Dusseldorf, Vienna, Prague, Tokyo, Osaka, Hiroshima, Hong Kong, Santiago, Rio De Janeiro, Buenos Aires, New York, Boston, Sydney, & Melbourne. So I do know what I'm talking about when making comparisons!

[mufreight]

Government has a responsibility to provide appropriate infrastructure for the public of this state, not just for commuters on one somewhat priveleged line while those on others travel in cattle class,
If it is the aspiration of Government to have a higher usage of public rather than private transport then it essential that the Government provide the infrastructure and services to enable that and encourage rather than discourage patronage, for bus this means frequent services that connect with rail that start and finish early and late enough that one can use the services, an hourly service that starts at 6.30am with the last service at 6.15pm and does not connect with a train, borders on useless.
Trains operating on 30minute headways and peak hour services that are overcrowded to the point that they leave passangers behind simply dont cut it.
More crews, more trains, more track capacity so that additional services can be run are Government responsibility are needed now, they will cost less to provide now rather than in 2 - 5 or 10 years and the savings of improved services are not just lower fuel usage and lower greenhouse emissions but lives presently being lost in needless road accidents, travelling time and a lowering of the need for further construction of major road works.
Obviously it is past time the Government met its responsibilities in this field to it is time that they were held to account and that Government meets it obligations to all rather than to a select priveleged section of the community.
Overcrowded is overcrowded.
What are your thoughts on this Jason.

[AnnaW]

Hi there Jason

Thanks for your comments about the figures we released on the QR website today.

While they aren't a horror story, they also aren't the services we aim to consistently provide to all our customers.

SEQIPP funding is enabling us to introduce 44 three-carriage trains along with funding for an additional 58 three carriage trains to be delivered after 2010.

There are 18 of these are already in service across the Citytrain network, with another train currently undergoing testing right now.

Full delivery of the 102 three carriage trains will increase the size of our fleet by almost 70% - or around 23 000 additional seats.

We really do appreciate your patience while we work together to build a better network with more trains for our customers. 

Best regards

Anna Whybird
QR Passenger

[mufreight]

Well said Anna, QR can only do what the Government will fund, and unfortunately only provide services that Translink will fund and authorise BUT.
As for patience that is comething that the commuters of SE Queensland are starting to find has been somewhat overtaxed and the supply is fast running out.

[AnnaW]

Hi StephenK

In answer to your question regarding how do we (QR) determine whether a train is overcrowded.

Within the Transport Services Contract, capacity is a ?comfort? measure which is based on the assumption that passengers will not have to stand for more than 20 minutes.

This means that 'capacity' is reached when a passenger has to stand  for longer than 20 minutes. It does not measure capacity using the true capacity of the train as recommended by the train's manufacturer nor does it mean that the loading is unsafe.

The Passenger Load Survey data, while integral to service planning, is not used in isolation but rather in conjunction with other information including feedback from our customers such as yourself.

The survey was carried out between 19 February and 20 March 2008 to capture the annual seasonal peak passenger demand. You are correct that this survey was prior to the new timetable introduced on 31 March and the recent network optimisation which commenced 28 July.

Kind regards

Anna Whybird
QR Passenger

[brad C]

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments mufreight!!
It is interesting that figures were collected in February- March as Gold Coast service frequencies in peak periods only moved to 15 minute gaps from March 31 (Was the Bombay Express an illusion??)
It would also be worth determining at what point on the 'line' are services deemed to be overcrowded. For example, for up services, one would probably conclude that commuters catching an all stopper would be disadvantaged over an express service, unless of course they caught it at the originating station of close to it.
In this regard, a Shorncliffe service in the AM peak may have less loadings to Northgate than a corresponding Caboolture service. However for stations between Northgate and Bowen Hills, it is often the Shorncliffe services that attract commuters from these stations, simply because they have some standing room available and also as they tend to run all stops.
In the PM peak, timing can be a factor on loadings. For example, an all stopper to Shorncliffe at say 1623 may attract bulk commuters for stations Bowen Hills to Northgate even though that service may be followed by an all stopper to Petrie 2 minutes later.
Irrespective of this, the figures do suggest that the busiest corridor should be the focus of a timetable review particularly as early evening commuters stand greater than 20 minutes on the Caboolture corridor.

Despite all the political hype that the new TTA would be the panacea for all transport woes, statements such as that which appeared recently in the local Caboolture Times where a 'spokesperson' was tight-lipped about additional rail services to Caboolture do little to instil confidence in the new organisation by the long suffering commuter.
Bob has long been advocating for a dedicated Transport portfolio in Cabinet. This would at least ensure focus, empathy and accountability to the public.
If one read the transcripts from this years Estimates Committee hearings, one can conclude that transport woes can be easily glossed over in favour of some of the good news stories associated with the present encumbent's broad range of responsibilities.
If Government is serious about tackling congestion and promoting Transit Oriented Development, it must develop infrastructure plans commensurate with demand projections and the ordering and delivery of additional rollingstock. Plans should include additional capacity to allow separation of long distance and freight services from peak commuter services so that service frequencies can be increased without the need to allow for headways for through traffic. (Consider the restrictions on the Caboolture corridor in the PM peak to allow for the 1700hrs Bundaberg Tilt Train running) Capacity should also allow for priority growth areas such as the west moreton region (Extension of quad to at least Redbank or beyond) and the northern Beaudesert area (utilisation of the interstate line).
It is not rocket science - it needs commitment and forethought not hindsight and short term political expediency.

[ozbob]

Excellent comment all!  Thanks!

Thanks for the clarification Anna. We know from feedback that congestion on the Cleveland line is a major problem particularly inner city.  This is not reflected in the figures due the 20 minute factor I suspect. 

That aside, the data does clearly indicate the need for more resources, crew and trains, which are slowly coming forward.

There really is a need for a dedicated transport portfolio at Ministerial level, as Brad has commented.  I think in some ways this is a critical issue as well.  With the election cycle coming around again, it is clear that transport particularly public transport will be a major issue and public transport policy and purpose will be to the forefront of electors minds!   

Enjoy the ride!

[ozbob]

Media Release 25 August 2008

SEQ: QR Citytrain Patronage Data only tells part of the story

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the public release of the QR Citytrain Patronage Data made available today on the QR Citytrain website (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

?This data confirms our observations and passenger feedback that the worst congestion is on the Caboolture  and Ipswich lines. It is also confirms the significant increase in passengers that QR Citytrain has had to cope with whilst being grossly under-resourced in terms of trains and crew.?

?This data is from the earlier this year, it is old data.  Observations since then would suggest that fuel price rises have had an impact and the peak congestion is actually worse than the figures released today suggest.  This makes it imperative that more trains and crew are in place to cope.?

?The TransLink Transit Authority must step up and introduce incentive ticketing to encourage early and late peak travel, and also provide off peak fares on the go card.  This will immediately relieve some of the peak congestion.  The go card provides an easy way to introduce incentive ticketing.  Victoria is introducing free early bird travel on all of its suburban railway lines, they can see the big picture.?

?The Queensland Government must direct funding from roads and monuments to the automobile, to sustainable transport, that is electric rail ? heavy and light.  More rolling stock and further rail extensions are urgently needed.?

?Rail ? light and heavy, is the sustainable bulk people mover.  By ramping up the QR urban and interurban system to a high capacity frequent service this will take the pressure off the radial bus network. More lateral bus routes and feeder services will complement the high frequency rail commuter services.?

?We must continue to ramp up rail services as this is where the bulk capacity can be developed independent of the congestion on the roads, and use buses where possible as integrated feeder services to high frequency high capacity rail services.?

?Time that we act and look to a sustainable transport future! ?

References:

1.  http://www.citytrain.com.au/about/overview/citytrain_patronage_data.asp


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From Quest  Community Newspapers click here!

Overcrowded train figures revealed

25 Aug 08 @ 05:52pm by Kelmeny Fraser
Overcrowded train figures revealed

QUEENSLAND Rail has been forced to reveal the extent of overcrowding on its trains, four months after refusing to release its annual passenger count data.

The data has revealed commuters on the Caboolture and Ipswich lines are facing the worst peak-hour crush on the network, rating worse than the so-called "Bombay Express?? Gold Coast line.

QR?s data released on Monday show 21 percent of all peak hour services on the lines were classed as overcrowded. This equated to seven of 34 services.

A service is rated overcrowded if passengers are left standing for more than 20 minutes of the journey.

In contrast, just 8 percent of services on the Gold Coast line were classed as overcrowded.

Passengers travelling on the Ferny Grove line were left standing on 18 per cent of all peak-hour services, while just 4 percent of services on the Cleveland line were rated overcrowded.

QR figures also reveal that of 111 services arriving at Central station during morning peak hour, 62 trains were more than 90 per cent full and 48 trains more than 100 per cent full.

A six-car train can carry up to 750 passengers comfortably, but the physical design can cater for a maximum load of 1000 passengers.

But despite assurances that passenger counts would be publicly released, Queensland Rail has stopped short of revealing actual passenger figures, instead reporting the percentage of full trains.

Although a physical count of passenger has been conducted, QR Passenger Executive Manager Paul Scurrah said the survey did not measure capacity using the true capacity of the train as recommended by the manufacturer.

The information was released following last week?s announcement of Freedom of Information reforms, potentially forcing QR to release the data by next year when exemptions applying to the body are removed.

Quest Newspapers was refused access to QR?s passenger counts in April and was later refused its release under Freedom of Information laws on the basis it was a commercial activity.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said the group had often witnessed trains arriving in the City carrying more passengers than QR?s 1000 passenger load limit.

Mr Dow said members had counted 1300 people arriving on one such service.

"What we would like to see is more services during peak times both morning and afternoon, coupled with incentive ticketing encouraging people to leave a little bit earlier or later through discounts of fares,?? he said.

[mufreight]

Overcrowding,
The response from Anna W does not consider a train to be overcrowded if it has 1300 pax packed into a 6 car set with a nominal safe maximum capacity of 850/900 pax but they are only standing for 19 minutes and the train is leaving passangers behind at intermediate stations because they simply can not squeese in.
Time to cut out the spin and be factual, as said previously QR does a pretty good job with what it has and under the constraints of Translink control but does a poor job of producing mushroom fodder, it remains fact that QR Citytrain is under resourced to provide the services levels expected of it.
Would a dedicated Transport Minister help the situation, possibly but it is worth a try, the curent Minister's track record on rail passanger services has been less than credible.  An example being the new SMU units of which 263 and 264 are only now undergoing testing, what about the other three sets still sitting at Marybrough and will we again hear of crew shortages because of lack of funding to employ and train staff.
Corinda to Darra why only electrify three of the four tracks and not build the fourth platform at Oxley now while the present construction is underway, it will cost less to do it now than to come back to do it in another 4 or 5 years when demand leaves no option.
Give QR the resources it needs and allow them to do the job, QR has shown that given the resources that they can come up with the goods.

[ozbob]

From Brisbanetimes click here!

One in five peak-hour trains overcrowded

One in five peak-hour trains overcrowded
Tony Moore | August 26, 2008 - 9:25AM

Almost one-fifth of Brisbane's rail services are overcrowded during peak hour, statistics show.

Now a rail commuter group wants Queensland to follow the example of other states and introduce incentives to get rail commuters out of peak hour.

Translink this week released Citytrain figures showing that 21 per cent of peak hour services on the Caboolture and Ipswich lines were overcrowded in February and March.

The statistics come after the State Government bowed to pressure from Brisbane City Council, which provides monthly updates on its bus service capacity.

Citytrain figures show that 20 per cent of the services from Nambour were overcrowded, while 18 per cent of services on the Ferny Grove line were busting at the seams.

Gold Coast services fare better, with only eight per cent of services overcrowded.

Rail commuter lobby group Rail: Back on Track has seized on the figures, immediately calling on the State Government to press ahead with plans to alleviate commuter woes.

Spokesman Robert Dow said the statistics were worse than expected.

"This data confirms our observations and passenger feedback that the worst congestion is on the Caboolture and Ipswich lines," Mr Dow said.

"It is also confirms the significant increase in passengers that QR Citytrain has had to cope with whilst being grossly under resourced in terms of trains and crew."

Mr Dow said he feared congestion would worsen amid fuel prices rises.

He said more trains were needed as soon as possible.

"This data is from earlier this year, it is old data. Observations since then would suggest that fuel price rises have had an impact and the peak congestion is actually worse than the figures released today suggest. This makes it imperative that more trains and crew are in place to cope."

He called on the government to introduce cut price fares to encourage commuters to start and finish work outside peak hours.

"The TransLink Transit Authority must step up and introduce incentive ticketing to encourage early and late peak travel, and also provide off peak fares on the go card," he said.

"The go card provides an easy way to introduce incentive ticketing. Victoria is introducing free early bird travel on all of its suburban railway lines. They can see the big picture."

A response is being sought from Transport Minister John Mickel.

Infrastructure Minister Paul Lucas promised to release a plan for reviewing Brisbane's inner-city rail network by mid-2008.

[ozbob]

From Queensland Parliamentary Hansard August 26
http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/hansard/documents/2008.pdf/2008_08_26Qtime.pdf

Queensland Rail, Peak Hour Passenger Numbers

Miss SIMPSON: My question is to the minister for transport. After public pressure the
government has finally released some figures regarding overcrowding on Queensland Rail?s peak hour
Citytrain services but has failed to release actual passenger numbers. There are significant concerns
that the number of passengers exceeds the maximum safety loads of the trains. I ask: will the minister
release actual passenger figures?or is he too scared they will reveal significant safety breaches?

Mr MICKEL: I have a track record of releasing information that is available. Let us go through it.
Soon after I became the minister we put on the web site the number of peak hour services. Those
members who listen to ABC Radio every morning would hear Spencer Howson?and I think he does an
excellent job?announcing whether the trains are running on time. How does Spencer Howson get that
information? Because I put it on the web site. Similarly, when I was the energy minister there was a big
call then to put information on the web site. That is exactly what I did. Last week I found out that the
opposition had put in an FOI request to a GOC about passenger loadings. So I said to Queensland Rail,
?Make the information available,? because you then have an informed debate. That informed debate is
about how many services are crowded.

I can give the honourable member some insight into that, if she would like. As I understand it,
Queensland Rail has uploaded those peak capacities, but the figures are calculated using carriage
counts. They are a physical count of a particular carriage on a particular service on a single line on a
particular day. As I understand it, that survey was carried out between 19 February and 20 March earlier
this year.

It is true that instead of that sort of system I would rather have the go card system to get accurate
counts of where people get on and what time they get off. As I understand it, the opposition has had
an ambivalent attitude towards the go card, but one of the pieces of information that is absolutely crucial
is passenger loadings. That way you can assign in peak hours where you want the services to be.
Unlike the opposition when it was in government, where its percentage of spend on public
transport in the south-east was quite minuscule, I am advised that this year we are spending about
$1 billion. The subsidy for passenger transport will be that for every dollar fare, the taxpayers will pay
around about $4 to achieve that. It is true that in times of rising fuel prices people inevitably take
passenger transport. We have seen that in the Brisbane City Council bus loadings but, unlike Brisbane
City Council buses which when they are full simply bypass bus stops, Queensland Rail does not do that.
Queensland Rail will stop at the designated stops.

I should say that rather than sitting back and being indifferent to this problem, we are upgrading
the infrastructure. Those people years ago who?
Time expired.

[Derwan]

For the shorter lines, the total travel time is less than 20 minutes except at the outer stations.

Going by the model used to determine overcrowding, we will never see inner-city services - as the patronage for these areas would never be seen to have the potential for overcrowding.

There needs to be another factor taken into consideration to highlight just how overcrowded trains are when they're closer to the city.

[stephenk]

Hi StephenK

In answer to your question regarding how do we (QR) determine whether a train is overcrowded.

Within the Transport Services Contract, capacity is a ?comfort? measure which is based on the assumption that passengers will not have to stand for more than 20 minutes.

This means that 'capacity' is reached when a passenger has to stand  for longer than 20 minutes. It does not measure capacity using the true capacity of the train as recommended by the train's manufacturer nor does it mean that the loading is unsafe.

The Passenger Load Survey data, while integral to service planning, is not used in isolation but rather in conjunction with other information including feedback from our customers such as yourself.

The survey was carried out between 19 February and 20 March 2008 to capture the annual seasonal peak passenger demand. You are correct that this survey was prior to the new timetable introduced on 31 March and the recent network optimisation which commenced 28 July.

Kind regards

Anna Whybird
QR Passenger

Thanks for the reply.

The standing for 20mins or more data presented, whilst very useful, is also rather misleading at showing the true extent of overcrowding. The figures are thus weighted towards outer suburban services rather than inner suburban services. For example, around the time of the survey there were 2 x 3-car services which started at Mitchelton. Passengers would only start having to stand at Enoggera which is within 20mins of Central. Yet these trains would be completely full to capacity before Windsor. Thus going by this statistic, it would count as a not overcrowded service despite it being very overcrowded!

I get the feeling that QR released these particular statistics as it showed them in better light than other statistics. I would be very interested in seeing figures for the % of trains which are 90% full and 100% full for each line.

[ozbob]

Fiona Simpson MP
Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Main Roads
Member for Maroochydore

22 August 2008

FOI investigation launched into Citytrain's overcrowding

The LNP have launched a Freedom of Information submission for
Citytrain's secret passenger numbers to be released.

Translink has refused to release the figures which would show the full
extent of the system's overcrowding issue, instead saying it was up to
Transport Minister John Mikel to make the information public.

LNP Transport Shadow Minister Fiona Simpson said the Government's
refusal to release the figures was in direct contradiction to Premier
Bligh's announcement this week to open government-owned corporations to
greater public scrutiny.

"The south east's train system is under resourced and it is commuters
who are left to suffer the results," Ms Simpson said.

"The starting point in fixing a failing system is for total public
accountability.

"It's time for the Bligh Government to release Citytrain's passengers
figures so overcrowding can be fixed in an accountable manner.

"The public already know Translink has a crisis on their hands - they
experience it firsthand day in day out.

"But the Government's secrecy over the problem just adds insult to
injury."

Ms Simpson said the FOI application submitted yesterday requests the
Government to detail all reports and notes prepared on passenger
overcrowding, listing the number of trains that have skipped a station
due to due their full capacity.

"The south-east's public transport system needs a total overhaul. It's
time for fresh solutions, proper resourcing and a new positive culture
to be introduced," she said.



Fiona Simpson MP
Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Main Roads
Member for Maroochydore

26 August 2008

Rail overcrowding secrecy threatens safety

The Bligh Government today refused in Parliament to release rail
passenger figures on overcrowded peak hour services from fear it could
show significant safety breaches, the LNP said.

Shadow Transport Minister Fiona Simpson said actual passenger figures
needed to be released, not just percentages of trains over capacity, to
ensure trains weren't being loaded over the safety limit.

A six-car train can cater for a maximum load of 1000 passengers, but
claims have been made by public transport group Rail Back on Track that
1300 people have been counted on one such service.

"The information released by the Minister this week only confirmed what
everyone already knew, that a considerable percentage of trains during
peak hour are overcrowded," Ms Simpson said.

"We've been lobbying for the Government to release all the figures as
this is now a issue of not just passenger comfort but passenger safety.

"We need to know if passenger numbers are exceeding the recommended
limit and if this is putting people's safety at risk."

Limited data gathered by the Government in February and March showed the
Ipswich and Caboolture lines experienced the worst overcrowding during
peak periods, but all growth corridor had high loadings*:

*   Ipswich 21% of peak hour services
*   Caboolture 21%
*   Nambour 20%
*   Ferny Grove 18%
*   Gold Coast 8%
*   Cleveland 4%

Last week the State Opposition lodged an FOI requesting overcrowding
figures be released in light of the Government's previous refusal to
answer questions publicly and in Parliament.

"Unless the Government is honest about all of the figures the public
can't monitor whether the best solution are being put in place," Ms
Simpson said.

[ozbob]

From Courier Mail click here!

Mayors demand action over southeast train overcrowding

Mayors demand action over southeast train overcrowding
Article from: The Courier-Mail

By Tuck Thompson

August 27, 2008 12:00am

THE mayors of southeast Queensland's fastest growing areas want State Government action to ease commuter train overcrowding.
Queensland Rail statistics, released after a four-month Freedom of Information battle, show peak hour overcrowding is rife on the Caboolture, Ferny Grove and Ipswich lines.

QR disclosed only the percentage of lines that were crowded during peak hours, not the actual passenger numbers.

The figures show lines including Caboolture, Ipswich and Ferny Grove overloaded about 20 per cent of the time.

More than half the trains arriving in Central station during the morning peak were at least 90 per cent full and many were more than 100 per cent full.

Quest community newspapers asked for the data under FOI laws months ago but were initially denied it.

Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale said southeast Queensland mayors now wanted to sit down with the Government to work out solutions.

"If we don't act now, we're going to be in a crisis situation," he said.

Moreton Bay Regional Council Mayor Allan Sutherland urged QR to release actual passenger counts to determine if trains have been loaded beyond safe capacity.

"I don't think they should be hiding the figures. It would be irresponsible to be running an unsafe system. I hope that is not happening, he said.

"If it got out that the system was unsafe people would be leaving public transportation in droves and the highways would become even more crowded."

Cr Sutherland said rather than paying millions of dollars in dividends QR should be investing in sufficient rolling stock and staff to meet demand.

"It's just a matter of pumping money into the service. It can be done," he said.

The mayors said the immediate solution was a decentralised light rail-bus system.

Transport Minister John Mickel's office issued a statement noting a 40 per cent growth in public transport in four years. It said the state had "committed" $900 million to increase Citytrain capacity and 18 trains had gone into service since the  survey.

Blog comment:

RAIL Back On Track has been highlighting the lack of proper resourcing of QR Passenger Services for some time.  The latest new Interurban Multiple Unit trains and the new SMU train are the first in about 7 years.  During that time there has been a huge increase in passenger demand.  This is the route cause of the present mess, a Government that has failed to resource properly in terms of crew and trains.  I would not be surprised if we have to import some trains from China as we cannot build them fast enough.  The Queensland Government should build up our railway manufacturing industries, there is a huge local and global demand. 

We are entering a catch up phase, but we need more, much more.  The TransLink Transit Authority has already distinguished itself as impotent - where is the incentive ticketing (discounts for early and late peak, off peak) on the Go card  to ease the congestion peaks?  They can't  even get the Go card in an equitable fare situation with paper integrated ticketing, let alone the ticket of choice.  The Minister said in parliament yesterday that the Go card will help solve the problems!  Hello Mr Mickel?  We have to get everyone using it first to get the accurate load data.

Check out RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org and you will soon discover this congestion and crisis has not developed overnight,  No Sir, it is been coming at us like an express locomotive!  RAIL Back On Track has been long highlighting the problems, it seems only as an election looms does anyone start to do anything!

[ozbob]

From Brisbane mX 26 August 2008 page 2

QR's crush-hour trains

[jason]

Jason - stop pointlessly stirring. We DO NOT have one of the best public transport systems around! We have service gaps of over 20mins at major stations/lines in the peaks, a pathetic 30min off-peak service, filthy and badly maintained trains (broken seats, doors, motors), a lack of trains to provide decent enough service, poor infrastructure (many single track sections, few grade seperated junctions), and approx 10% of trains run late (or not at all). I have lived in London for 9 years, and used rail transport during the rush hour in Paris, Madrid, Berlin, Brussels, Lisbon, Dusseldorf, Vienna, Prague, Tokyo, Osaka, Hiroshima, Hong Kong, Santiago, Rio De Janeiro, Buenos Aires, New York, Boston, Sydney, & Melbourne. So I do know what I'm talking about when making comparisons!

Hi Stephenk

you can't compare chalk and cheese, in listing the cities where you have previously lived, you have listed some where the population density is 2 to 3 times brisbane's density, up to 9 times in some cases. obviously therefor public transport in those cities are going to have a higher catchment area of population per station and denser shorter trips.

brisbane is a lower density, especially in comparision new york Hong Kong and Toyko. It is not economically feasible to provide a service stanard that you want.

All i see here is a lot of people complaining but never put forward any ideas on how to improve the rail system, except the same old endless bullsh%t ( yes long winded but so it the same rants that have been appearing here ) about putting on more services.

there is a point where rail lines are going to be saturated to the point where there cannot be anymore services added. you can add as many services as you want but there are other factors to consider

how are you going to have trains staged at end stations so they are ready to start their run? if you are looking at an average time of 5 to 10 minutes at terminating station for train turn around, do we introduce similar solutions of "turnback" as introduced in Sydney at key stations like Bondi? this would allow a faster turn around time but requires resumption of properties.

or do we provide more or move all stabling yards to radial stations (similar to satelite bus depots), moving trains to places where they start their runs in peak periods

how about re routing all gold coast and beenleigh express services via indooroopilly, this would help with the immediate reduction of traffic through south bank

my rant as a professional is not about the congestion problem, but listening to people whinge not only on here but on other site including the CM and associated press about the problem, but not providing solutions. People can whinge as much as they want. but actually putting feasible solutions which can be put into effective immediately seems few and far between

maybe we need to open up a seperate forum / thread for other suggestions for the immediate / imtrim term to solve congestion problems.

one solution i have loved the introduction of free public transport to those willing to travel before peak am periods

[ozbob]

There is capacity within the present network to increase frequency.  This is only one factor, and something that is constantly reinforced here and elsewhere.

RAIL Back On Track also consistently puts forwards suggestions to ease the overload on services at peak.  Incentive ticketing, changed patterns of services and as you suggest variation such as Gold Coast Via Tennyson, inner city loops and so forth. The fact is the public experience the congestion and will complain. 

You are most welcome to your opinions Jason as we are.  There is no need to put others down.

Please start a thread - suggestions to ease congestion, great idea.  It might collect together the various suggestions posted here and lead to further ideas coming forward.  Thanks.

Cheers
Bob

[stephenk]

All i see here is a lot of people complaining but never put forward any ideas on how to improve the rail system, except the same old endless bullsh%t ( yes long winded but so it the same rants that have been appearing here ) about putting on more services.

there is a point where rail lines are going to be saturated to the point where there cannot be anymore services added. you can add as many services as you want but there are other factors to consider

how are you going to have trains staged at end stations so they are ready to start their run? if you are looking at an average time of 5 to 10 minutes at terminating station for train turn around, do we introduce similar solutions of "turnback" as introduced in Sydney at key stations like Bondi? this would allow a faster turn around time but requires resumption of properties.

People have the same rants, and moans, because the problems are the same - lack of trains, lack of infrastructure, and poor timetabling. The former two being thanks to the short sighted Queensland Government, and the latter thanks to QR/Translink.

Again, using the Ferny Grove Line as an example, if the line had been duplicated all the way to Ferny Grove, then using the trains being delivered, and logical timetabling all overcrowding problems would have been solved. But of course the reality was a half-baked duplication project which missed out the key section between Keperra and Ferny Grove resulting in an irregular and overcrowded service. These problems could have, and should have been prevented. This is why people are so angry with the Queensland Government and QR.

[david]

I'm just wondering which train services would be part of the 20% overcrowded figure on the Ipswich Line. I know that all train services originating from Ipswich/Rosewood in the morning are packed, as well as the 7:14am ex Redbank train and maybe the 7:51am ex Darra. Would everyone agree?

[ozbob]

Agreed David.  The 20% (21% in case of Ipswich) is a loose definition based on 'standing for longer than 20 minutes' or something equally as vague I understand.  It means that a lot of the inner city congestion (overload and latent loading) is not even counted!!

The overload is much greater IMHO than the figures so far made available would suggest.

Spot on!

[glossyblack]

Maybe Citytrain should be named Cattletrain, as I saw at Bundaberg Station last week.
Cliff

[ozbob]

Ipswich Advertiser 3 September 2008 page 5

Ipswich line has worst congestion

By BRENTON GAREN

ONE in five peak-hour Ipswich trains are overcrowded, confirming it is one of the worst congested lines in the southeast region, new Queensland Rail (QR) data reveals. Figures released last week revealed 21 per cent of Ipswich Citytrain peak hour services during February and March were overcrowded.

Rail Back on Track (RBT) spokesman Robert Dow said the data showed the increase in passengers QR Citytrain had to cope with while being "grossly under-resourced in terms of trains and crew". "Observations since then would suggest fuel price rises have had an impact and the peak congestion is actually worse than the figures released today suggest," Mr Dow said.

"This makes it imperative that more trains and crew are in place to cope."

A six-car train can cater for a maximum load of 1000 passengers, but RBT claims 1300 people have been counted on one such service.

Liberal National spokeswoman Fiona Simpson said the Bligh Government refused in Parliament to release rail passenger
figures on overcrowded peak hour services out of fear it could show significant safety breaches.

Ms Simpson said actual passenger figures needed to be released, not just percentages of trains over capacity, to ensure trains were not being loaded over the safety limit.

"The information released by the Minister this week only confirmed what everyone already knew; that a considerable percentage of trains during peak hour are overcrowded," Ms Simpson said.

Other overcrowded lines included Caboolture (21 per cent), Nambour (20 per cent), Ferny Grove (18 per cent), Gold Coast (eight per cent) and Cleveland (four per cent.

TransLink spokesman Adam Nicholson said the State Government, through the TransLink Transit Authority, and QR were working to improve services and meet the growing public transport demand.

"A new three-car train is received around once a month," Mr Nicholson said.

"So far 18 new three-car sets have been received and put into service since May 2007.

"Some of these trains have been used for additional services added to the Gold Coast line in March while others have been used to upgrade some three-carriage services to sixcarriage services."

Mr Nicholson said State Government had ordered a total of 44 three-car train sets for delivery by the end of 2010.

"In June 2008, the State Government included $972 million in the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan and Program for a further 58 threecarriage trains to be delivered after 2010," he said.

"Full delivery of the 102 three-carriage trains will increase the size of the fleet by almost 70 per cent - or about 23,000 additional seats."

Thanks for highlighting these issues Ipswich Advertiser!

The Caboolture line is also suffering ...

[stephenk]

Agreed David.  The 20% (21% in case of Ipswich) is a loose definition based on 'standing for longer than 20 minutes' or something equally as vague I understand.  It means that a lot of the inner city congestion (overload and latent loading) is not even counted!!

The overload is much greater IMHO than the figures so far made available would suggest.

Spot on!

The figures that QR decided to released are the statistics that showed them in the best light. The fact that 43% of trains were over 100% full upon arrival at Central doesn't quite tally with the figures of approx 20% overcrowding on the Ipswich, Caboolture, and Ferny Grove Lines. It is pretty disgraceful that QR are massaging the overcrowding statistics to such an extent.

I would like the see pressure put on QR to release the line by line figures for trains that are 90% and 100% full to show a true representation of overcrowding on Brisbane's rail network.

[Arnz]

Agreed David.  The 20% (21% in case of Ipswich) is a loose definition based on 'standing for longer than 20 minutes' or something equally as vague I understand.  It means that a lot of the inner city congestion (overload and latent loading) is not even counted!!

The overload is much greater IMHO than the figures so far made available would suggest.

Spot on!

The figures that QR decided to released are the statistics that showed them in the best light. The fact that 43% of trains were over 100% full upon arrival at Central doesn't quite tally with the figures of approx 20% overcrowding on the Ipswich, Caboolture, and Ferny Grove Lines. It is pretty disgraceful that QR are massaging the overcrowding statistics to such an extent.

I would like the see pressure put on QR to release the line by line figures for trains that are 90% and 100% full to show a true representation of overcrowding on Brisbane's rail network.

Ferny Grove is actually 18% according to those figures.  Its actually Ipswich, Caboolture and Nambour lines that are 20% or more.

[stephenk]

The figures that QR decided to released are the statistics that showed them in the best light. The fact that 43% of trains were over 100% full upon arrival at Central doesn't quite tally with the figures of approx 20% overcrowding on the Ipswich, Caboolture, and Ferny Grove Lines. It is pretty disgraceful that QR are massaging the overcrowding statistics to such an extent.

I would like the see pressure put on QR to release the line by line figures for trains that are 90% and 100% full to show a true representation of overcrowding on Brisbane's rail network.

Ferny Grove is actually 18% according to those figures.  Its actually Ipswich, Caboolture and Nambour lines that are 20% or more.

Note the use of the word "approx". 

[mufreight]

To dress up their figures Translink obviously does not count those passangers comming from lines east of Brunswick street who detrain at that station or passangers from the Ipswich line who detrain at Roma Street. 
Neat but somewhat obviously duplicit, perhaps the points for these passenger counts should be passenger counts of passengers on train at South Brisbane, Milton and Bowen Hills, this would be more realistic.
Passenger counts based upon the data from the Go card usage only tell part of the story because they do not count those on paper tickets nor those travelling free or unticketed because of failed card readers.
So much for honest open government.