Riverside Expressway: Dismantle it and Tunnel?

[#Metro]

Before

After

No Pain, No Gain

http://www.preservenet.com/freeways/FreewaysCheonggye.html

[ButFli]

That's great. But what the photos don't show is the two-lane road around the corner that went from a quiet suburban street to a congestion infested main thoroughfare.

Seriously, you road-removal advocates have no shame!!!

[#Metro]

Ahhh. Looks like you know TINA: There Is No Alternative.
Like I have said multiple times in this thread. The expressway can be removed but it can be replaced by a tunnel underneath.
Under this scenario, there is no net loss or gain of lanes. Why are people reading things that are not there?

We have sent people to the moon. And people want to tell me that they cant do a tunnel in some rocks? Unbelievable.

[stephenk]

Sorry to break the bad news, but there is no endless pot of money.

Quote from: tramtrain on Today at 10:02:56 AM
Sometimes I think the RACQ has placed plants on the RailBOT forum...

No, it's just many forum members still have a grasp on reality.


Moderators, please lock this thread before this forum suffers from another absurd idea meltdown.

OMG! Parklands, people relaxing by the river, cyclists, trees! How dangerously absurd.
And its not free! Unbelieveable!

This used to be a freeway:

http://www.preservenet.com/freeways/FreewaysPompidou.html

Oh please. It's an internet forum.  
Put away your giant black censorship marker pen, and let us discuss freely on the forum.
!!!

Yet again Tramtrain, your arguments have more holes in them than QR's timetables, and are reducing the credibility of this forum.

The yearly closure for Paris Plage was during a month when Paris is pretty much deserted. Nearly every business closes down, and the metro runs at considerably reduced frequency.

The permanent closure in the Paris link is to a 2 lane road, not a 6 lane road as the Riverside Expressway. Slight difference in size! Paris also has an excellent public transport alternative, unlike Brisbane. This road is also not a major access road to the CBD, nor a major arterial route, unlike the Riverside expressway. And finally, the "after" photo at the bottom of your link still has a 2 lane road in it, the same as before!

[O_128]

Ok Sure we can demolish the expressway and spend billions to build a tunnel, But surely not until the expressway gets to the stage where is is structurally unsafe. Lets try and visually improve what we have than waste more money.

[#Metro]

Yet again Tramtrain, your arguments have more holes in them than QR's timetables, and are reducing the credibility of this forum.

The yearly closure for Paris Plage was during a month when Paris is pretty much deserted. Nearly every business closes down, and the metro runs at considerably reduced frequency.

The permanent closure in the Paris link is to a 2 lane road, not a 6 lane road as the Riverside Expressway. Slight difference in size! Paris also has an excellent public transport alternative, unlike Brisbane. This road is also not a major access road to the CBD, nor a major arterial route, unlike the Riverside expressway. And finally, the "after" photo at the bottom of your link still has a 2 lane road in it, the same as before!

Keep talking. What about the south korean one? You haven't mentioned that one.
More TINA arguments.

[stephenk]

Yet again Tramtrain, your arguments have more holes in them than QR's timetables, and are reducing the credibility of this forum.

The yearly closure for Paris Plage was during a month when Paris is pretty much deserted. Nearly every business closes down, and the metro runs at considerably reduced frequency.

The permanent closure in the Paris link is to a 2 lane road, not a 6 lane road as the Riverside Expressway. Slight difference in size! Paris also has an excellent public transport alternative, unlike Brisbane. This road is also not a major access road to the CBD, nor a major arterial route, unlike the Riverside expressway. And finally, the "after" photo at the bottom of your link still has a 2 lane road in it, the same as before!

Keep talking. What about the south korean one? You haven't mentioned that one.
More TINA arguments.

May I suggest you re-read the article (more than once)? There are some pretty major differences between Seoul and Brisbane, for starters - population, density, and existing public transport alternatives.

I cannot see any articles in that website where the reasoning can be applied to Brisbane.

[#Metro]

TINA TINA TINA
May I suggest you re-read this section:

Like I have said multiple times in this thread. The expressway can be removed but it can be replaced by a tunnel underneath. Under this scenario, there is no net loss or gain of lanes.

All the idea is, is to change the location from above, to below ground. That's all.
If you want to drive your car, you can do it in the tunnel.

May I suggest you re-read the article (more than once)? There are some pretty major differences between Seoul and Brisbane, for starters - population, density, and existing public transport alternatives.

Irrelevant. The existing car lanes would simply go underground, the surface ones then removed.

Don't worry. I doubt it will happen anytime soon. If ever...

[ozbob]

Just relax all.  Views may be different.  The voting represents a consensus. 

Cheers
Bob

[#Metro]

And a South-Bank style development here would be good for the economy, and traffic would still flow.

Putting the Riverside Expressway in a tunnel might be the single most useful one.
Quote

Combined RaM Tunnel: Rail and MOTORWAY Tunnel.

The rail project could be combined with a car tunnel bored as one tunnel. Charge a toll perhaps? This would pay for both road and rail.

LOL. LM Graham Quirk hates the idea and wants rigorous BCR on it. Why the sudden need for decent BCR when he is pushing BaT which has comparatively poor BCR.

But Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said he was not convinced such a project was viable.
"I'm all about encouraging innovative ideas and thinking outside the square but they would need to provide a very strong cost benefit analysis for this one to proceed," he said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/move-riverside-expressway-underground-planning-expert-20151014-gk9a00.html

We also have evidence from the total closure of the REx in a natural experiment, plus we also have the new tunnel systems in place that were not there when the REx was closed.

http://atrf.info/papers/2009/2009_Marinelli_Watson.pdf

[#Metro]

Tunnel Proposal from AECOM Engineer 

A planning expert has reignited debate about the Riverside Expressway, telling members of the business community it should replaced by a tunnel to open up the north bank of the Brisbane River.

AECOM Australia and New Zealand design and planning managing director James Rosenwax said the Riverside Expressway was "strangling the city" and needed to go underground.

And, while no formal study had taken place, he said it would likely pay for itself.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/move-riverside-expressway-underground-planning-expert-20151014-gk9a00.html
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

[ozbob]

LOL .... bit late in the game hey?

[James]

We have better things to be spending our money on than putting the Riverside Expressway in a tunnel, not to mention the number of technical challenges putting the thing in the tunnel would cause. Flood risk, on/off ramps, road closures etc.

Personally, I don't think the Riverside Expressway is ugly. It draws a nice line on the bottom of the city skyline. This would otherwise be old stone walls and rundown paths which nobody would bother using due to the dirty river on one side and cliffs on the other/South Bank being in such close proximity. The geography (particularly towards the Roma St end of North Quay) is not conducive to turning the area into a 'lifestyle precinct' a la South Bank.

[verbatim9]

Its seems to be the trend around the world to put water front freeways under the ground. Seattle is currently doing so

[colinw]

Oh goodness, what utter and complete silliness.

By the time the Riverside Expressway is life expired, it should be replaced with precisely nothing other than a toll collection point where the Capt Cook bridge feeds Google cars and Apple iCars into the CBD.

Or would could always convince one or other party of team indistinguishable to combine Cars, Rail And Public transport into a single cr%p tunnel.

[verbatim9]

New tunnel name "Cross River Road and Rail Tunnel" New simulations and drawings etc.... What a plan

[red dragin]

Cross River Access Passage.

Would I win anything for that one?

[ozbob]

Cross River Access Passage.

Would I win anything for that one?

[colinw]

I think that name needs to be submitted to the Orifice of State Development.

[newbris]

We have better things to be spending our money on than putting the Riverside Expressway in a tunnel, not to mention the number of technical challenges putting the thing in the tunnel would cause. Flood risk, on/off ramps, road closures etc.

Personally, I don't think the Riverside Expressway is ugly. It draws a nice line on the bottom of the city skyline. This would otherwise be old stone walls and rundown paths which nobody would bother using due to the dirty river on one side and cliffs on the other/South Bank being in such close proximity. The geography (particularly towards the Roma St end of North Quay) is not conducive to turning the area into a 'lifestyle precinct' a la South Bank.

Yes, the Roma street end has pretty much a cliff down to the bicentennial bikeway. The other end though will become a southbank style lifestyle precinct from the Victoria bridge onwards after echo redevelop it.

[Gazza]

To be honest, we don't really do much worthwhile with the low hanging bits of river frontage, apart from south bank...Let alone doing major surgery on the REX.

[pandmaster]

I was just thinking of this the other day (as I do sometimes having read about many success stories from removing, with or without replacement, surface motorways overseas). I dream of one day walking along the riverfront on the north bank obstructed. While I think the road is super handy (amongst the most CBD accessible in Australia) when it reaches the end of its life I would like to see it removed from the surface. I think it is a waste to spend money on it before then.

The question will be what to build as a replacement. Surely if it is a tunnel it would not have any exits in the CBD and be a bypass (like the Alaskan Way project in Seattle). Interesting, TransApex does a pretty good job replacing the REx. The CLEM7 for people travelling north and IMHO largely replaces the need for a tunnel. The GBB also plays a role to link it with Coro Drive. The proposed Buranda to Toowong tunnel I think would be useful at this point for vehicles that presently travel along Coro Drive and the REx. IMHO the Capt. Cook Bridge should remain and just link into the northern end of the CBD as unobtrusively as possible (perhaps with two or three "branches: into city streets).

TL;DR: I eagerly await the natural death of the REx and its dismantling. TransApex may in fact be the saviour of the north bank, as its roads can (and should) largely replace the REx. The Capt. Cook Bridge should stay and be linked as unobtrusively as possible to the northern end of the CBD.

[#Metro]

If the REx is decommissioned, there is no need for Graham Quirks bus tunnel. Buses would simply exit at Wooloongabba, head over the Captain Cook Bridge (with no traffic from the SE Freeway) and over into the CBD. Alice St ramps could be retained - I'm sure they can work something out.

The other bridge could become pedestrian only, plant things on it, or whatever. Obviously my ideas are extremely rough an, but it could be a very interesting possibility to explore.

[newbris]

If there are any of you that haven't already seen it here is the proposed redevelopment coming in the next year or so:


Source: http://www.destinationbrisbaneconsortium.com.au/img/gallery/BMU006-V04A-A-rex-off.jpg


Source: http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/12/28/1227168/761873-fa85202e-8e44-11e4-8ac7-a81af5c46aa9.jpg

[verbatim9]

Before

After

No Pain, No Gain

http://www.preservenet.com/freeways/FreewaysCheonggye.html

Wow! that's a massive transformation Thats what we need here with Bne Riverside Expressway and Syd Carhill Expressway to go underground. I remeber that Keating once mooted and set aside funds for the Carhill Expressway Circular Quay to go underground. Maybe there is momentum for Riverside too.

[Jonno]

Before

After

No Pain, No Gain

http://www.preservenet.com/freeways/FreewaysCheonggye.html

Wow! that's a massive transformation Thats what we need here with Bne Riverside Expressway and Syd Carhill Expressway to go underground. I remeber that Keating once mooted and set aside funds for the Carhill Expressway Circular Quay to go underground. Maybe there is momentum for Riverside too.

There is no need to tunnel.  Traffic will actually flow better after its removal!!!