Feedback on timetable issues

[ozbob]

Welcome techblitz!

Bus / rail connections is a very vexed issue all over.

The best hope is for improved rail frequency, reorganise the bus network into high frequency busway/major arterial routes and the cross suburban/feeders as the next layer.   The present mish mash cannot even be mapped properly let alone be efficient or timely.

There are many locations in SEQ where a train or bus running a few minutes late can mean long waits up to 55 minutes or longer ..

[Golliwog]

If the election promise is fulfilled there will be a 15 minute frequency on the Ferny Grove line.  Weekday daytimes at least.

They still need to sort out the 362. I could live with the poor frequency, if they could just get it to run on time and have a decent connection and extend the hours of operation so you can use it after 5.30pm. I don't think it needs to be a 10 minute connection time, 5 minutes should be fine, just improve the reliability of the service.

Techblitz: my only suggestion about the ~9am connection is if you know you're not going to make the 9.05am service, stay on the 362 to Mitchelton (not Brookside, just Blackwood St) as if theres little traffic on Samford Rd you may be able to make the train at Mitchelton, or if you cross Blackwood St to the inbound side you can catch a 390 which goes to the city every 15 minutes as well. Although that said if you make the 390 that leaves Brookside at 9.15am (which you may not, seeing as your 362 is already running late) you do only beat the 9.35am train to the city by 10 minutes.

[dancingmongoose]

Timetable conflict here: http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/network-information/service-information/downward/16216/4159223/2014-01-20
The pdf is different: http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-sunshine-coast.pdf

According to the pdf it leaves Roma Street at 4:30, and they arrive at Nambour at the same time, so I assume the time difference is how long it waits at Caboolture (6 min between arrive and depart according to the pdf). Thing is, which one do I trust, the website or pdf?

[petey3801]

According to the Working Time Table, the website has the correct timings.

[Trainz296]

I have an issue that there will only be 1 Nambour Express that runs express Bowen Hills to Caboolture stopping only at northgate and all the rest stop all stations to northgate I no it's a short run to northgate but it's a long trip to nambour I live at north gate And I'm use to getting the Nambour express to northgate when it use to express Bowen hills to caboolture stopping at northgate and Petrie. So to me I get home later when it stops all stations to northgate when I liked the express to northgate.

[Arnz]

They have fixed the timetable mistakes on the Caboolture and Sunshine Coast timetables, TransLink uploaded the correct timings on the new PDFs this morning.

[BrizCommuter]

I have an issue that there will only be 1 Nambour Express that runs express Bowen Hills to Caboolture stopping only at northgate and all the rest stop all stations to northgate I no it's a short run to northgate but it's a long trip to nambour I live at north gate And I'm use to getting the Nambour express to northgate when it use to express Bowen hills to caboolture stopping at northgate and Petrie. So to me I get home later when it stops all stations to northgate when I liked the express to northgate.

This article from 2011 answers your question:
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/why-do-all-trains-now-stop-between.html

[Trainz296]

fair enough but why cant they express from Petrie to Eagle Junction stopping only at northgate then stop all stations from Eagle Junction to the city or would that be to much congestion for the inbound services from the airport and Doomben

[minbrisbane]

To be fair, the express is to make the journey to points north of Caboolture faster.  It's not really to get inner suburbs residents home quicker. 

[petey3801]

Personally, I would prefer it if Nambour trains, at least, ran express Bowen Hills to Caboolture, stopping at EJ, Northgate and Petrie, at most. Might not work in peak, but off-peak it should work fine! I have worked Nambour trains over the past couple evenings from Caboolture/Petrie back to the City, and while it is only a small sample size over the past couple nights, the only places the doors have opened between Northgate and Bowen Hills have been Northgate itself and Eagle Junction. Considering we were only a couple minutes behind the stopper from Caboolture, there really isn't all that much point! Same with northbound, the Nambour train is only 2-3mins ahead of the stopper between Bowen Hills and Northgate.
Stopping only at EJ and Northgate gives pax from Doomben/Airport and Shorncliffe the ability to catch the Nambour train without getting 3 different trains. AIN/WLW/Toombul/Nundah can easily get a stopper and only have to change once (EJ or Northgate) to get the Nambour train.

[James]

Having Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour trains running express Northgate - Bowen Hills is essentially an 'all or nothing' issue, due to the reasons pointed out by BrizCommuter.

I personally would like to see 8tph on the Shorncliffe Line (not all necessarily Shorncliffe starters - some could possibly reverse on Bindha siding, if it were electrified) to provide enough capacity to run all Caboolture line trains express Northgate - Bowen Hills. At this point, in fact, you could expand this express running to weekday daytimes as well thanks to 15 minute frequency to Northgate on the suburbans.

Unfortunately, rolling stock constraints mean that isn't possible at this point. While doors might not open at most stations - remember that for Wooloowin station, on January 20th, even if only 5 people get on per train per hour, that is 130 boardings/hour. If you ran all CAB trains express, you would reduce frequency at this station from bin-your-timetable to 9tph, with some sizeable gaps. (Time period measured between 7:30am and 8:30am, AM peak).

[Derwan]

Daytime off-peak Caboolture trains running express are a possibility.  They might even look at it for the next round of timetable updates.  There's a reason why they're saying that there's a train every 15 minutes to Northgate... that's ONLY for Sector 2.  Right now there are more if you count the Caboolture trains.

Peak is a bit harder as the Shorncliffe Line can only handle 4tph.  Some services already run from Caboolture/Petrie via the subs to Roma St.  It might be a case of express on main and all-stations on subs.  Run (some) trains from Petrie via the subs and stop all stations.  Run trains from Caboolture (and Nambour) express Northgate to Bowen Hills on the mains.

[Arnz]

^

Sectorisation would be a issue.  As it stands only the Gympie North trains run express between Bowen Hills and Northgate (doesn't stop at Northgate either) past January 20. 

Before someone mentions the 4:22pm Nambour train, that train is really a "Stopping at All-Red Signals" to Northgate due to a Petrie train 3 minutes in front of it, and also the 4:22pm Nambour service is only 3-cars and a Springfield Central starter according to the working timetable.  More of a "crowd management" issue, and I don't necessarily agree with that service being 3-cars. 

It would've been better if the earlier 3:30pm or 4:00pm service was reduced to 3-cars, and either service took the Bowen Hills - Northgate - Caboolture pattern for crowd management (removes the Albion-Nundah folks from the selected service out of the 2 mentioned), whilst the 4:22pm service is 6-cars and that service stops all stations to Northgate, then express from Northgate to Caboolture per current.

[STB]

Daytime off-peak Caboolture trains running express are a possibility.  They might even look at it for the next round of timetable updates.  There's a reason why they're saying that there's a train every 15 minutes to Northgate... that's ONLY for Sector 2.  Right now there are more if you count the Caboolture trains.

I think that is unlikely.  What's more likely to happen I think is simply extending the Springfield trains to Kippa Ring, giving a 15min frequency from Northgate to Petrie during off peak between the Caboolture and the Kippa Ring trains. 

Unless more trains (and more track), is put on, to give a 15min frequency to Springfield, and a 15 or 30min frequency to Ipswich, you'll still end up stuck with a 30min frequency Northgate to Petrie (assuming Springfield/Kippa Ring trains run every 15 mins and the Caboolture/Ipswich trains run express.  Not sure if that's a problem though with only 3 tracks though.

I also don't know if it is worth making them run express Bowen Hills to Northgate with a stop at EJ, as I think it really only saves a few minutes at best.

[petey3801]

Having Petrie/Caboolture/Nambour trains running express Northgate - Bowen Hills is essentially an 'all or nothing' issue, due to the reasons pointed out by BrizCommuter.

I know all too well the issues facing the Mains in the peak, which is why I said off-peak. There is nothing stopping it from happening in off-peak, a slight re-timing each way and it'd be apples. Alternatively, re-time the Nambour trains so they run all stops Bowen Hills to Northgate more than 2 or 3 mins in front/behind the Caboolture all stopper.

Yes, it won't save a lot of time (5mins would be about it), it's still 5 mins less for the longer journey. Also, as it stands, there really is no point in having the Nambour trains stop all to Northgate anyway. It really doesn't add anything to the frequency of the line, because it's so close to the all stopper, on the outbound the stopper runs on restricted signals to Northgate! Inbound, the ex-Nambour catches up to the Ipswich train by Bowen Hills! So, a small retiming to allow the ex-NBR to still only catch the IPS stopper by BHI, or complete retime to make the service worthwhile.

Neither will happen, but hey, we can always dream of an efficient system.

[James]

I know all too well the issues facing the Mains in the peak, which is why I said off-peak. There is nothing stopping it from happening in off-peak, a slight re-timing each way and it'd be apples. Alternatively, re-time the Nambour trains so they run all stops Bowen Hills to Northgate more than 2 or 3 mins in front/behind the Caboolture all stopper.

Yes, it won't save a lot of time (5mins would be about it), it's still 5 mins less for the longer journey. Also, as it stands, there really is no point in having the Nambour trains stop all to Northgate anyway. It really doesn't add anything to the frequency of the line, because it's so close to the all stopper, on the outbound the stopper runs on restricted signals to Northgate! Inbound, the ex-Nambour catches up to the Ipswich train by Bowen Hills! So, a small retiming to allow the ex-NBR to still only catch the IPS stopper by BHI, or complete retime to make the service worthwhile.

Neither will happen, but hey, we can always dream of an efficient system.

Issue being that Northgate - Bowen Hills pax won't like you if you take 2tph away from them in the off-peak, especially given it will leave Toombul with just 2tph on weekends - not great! You also end up with a farcical situation where trains run express off-peak yet all-stop in peak. Politically, this will just lead to commuters having giant whinges, so it is best just to leave as is.

In an ideal world, we'd have 4tph Bowen Hills - Northgate on the subs 6am - 11pm all week off-peak and no trains on the mains would stop all stations.

I think that is unlikely.  What's more likely to happen I think is simply extending the Springfield trains to Kippa Ring, giving a 15min frequency from Northgate to Petrie during off peak between the Caboolture and the Kippa Ring trains. 

Unless more trains (and more track), is put on, to give a 15min frequency to Springfield, and a 15 or 30min frequency to Ipswich, you'll still end up stuck with a 30min frequency Northgate to Petrie (assuming Springfield/Kippa Ring trains run every 15 mins and the Caboolture/Ipswich trains run express.  Not sure if that's a problem though with only 3 tracks though.

I also don't know if it is worth making them run express Bowen Hills to Northgate with a stop at EJ, as I think it really only saves a few minutes at best.

STB, I think Derwan is referring to running express Bowen Hills - Northgate, not Northgate - Petrie.

A Caboolture train running express Petrie - Bowen Hills stopping only at Northgate and EJ is a nice idea, but I don't see it happening for many years. Much better to argue for full-time expresses Bowen Hills - Northgate on the mains, and have 2tph Kippa-Ring/Caboolture, to give 4tph to Petrie.

[Arnz]

I know all too well the issues facing the Mains in the peak, which is why I said off-peak. There is nothing stopping it from happening in off-peak, a slight re-timing each way and it'd be apples. Alternatively, re-time the Nambour trains so they run all stops Bowen Hills to Northgate more than 2 or 3 mins in front/behind the Caboolture all stopper.

Yes, it won't save a lot of time (5mins would be about it), it's still 5 mins less for the longer journey. Also, as it stands, there really is no point in having the Nambour trains stop all to Northgate anyway. It really doesn't add anything to the frequency of the line, because it's so close to the all stopper, on the outbound the stopper runs on restricted signals to Northgate! Inbound, the ex-Nambour catches up to the Ipswich train by Bowen Hills! So, a small retiming to allow the ex-NBR to still only catch the IPS stopper by BHI, or complete retime to make the service worthwhile.

Neither will happen, but hey, we can always dream of an efficient system.

Issue being that Northgate - Bowen Hills pax won't like you if you take 2tph away from them in the off-peak, especially given it will leave Toombul with just 2tph on weekends - not great! You also end up with a farcical situation where trains run express off-peak yet all-stop in peak. Politically, this will just lead to commuters having giant whinges, so it is best just to leave as is.

I think Pete was referring to Nambour trains only in this case.  Which in this case, there is plenty of capacity outside of peak periods to have NBR's stopping pattern go all to Bowen Hills - Eagle Junction  - Northgate - Petrie - Caboolture, then all to Nambour. 

However, as we all know this is only foam at this point.

[BrizCommuter]

Some 3-car services are back to being a sardine can!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/ferny-full.html