Woolloongabba Metro Station?

[Gazza]

So $450m was committed in the SEQ city deal for a Gabba metro station.
Speculating about what form this could take.

You might do about 400m of tunnel under Hubert st and then build a new "on line" station at the location of the current bus layovers, adjacent to CRR. Given the layover is well below grade, the tunnel would go under stanley street quite easily.

Old station gets demolished or repurposed into a special events only boarding area similar to the bus station under Suncorp Stadium.

That would eliminate the issue of Woolongabba being on a branch, so both M1 and M2 would be able to service it.

If you had a station in this set up, it would make bus reform more workable since you could change to buses in either direction. Currently if a route terminates at the gabba, you can only get on a handful of busway routes, and none that go south.

If it were something like this, i wouldnt mind it because its the equivalent of what was done at Boggo Rd to create a seamless interchange.
Gabba in its current form is a dumb little one station branch.

[verbatim9]

A half billion dollars seems like alot for just a station. It has to include extensive tunnelling.

It may include an underground portal in combination with the stadium rebuild under Stanley St. This will allow regular Eastern bus services to dive under Main St and interchange with metro services at the new underground station.

They may need to create some doughnut turns for buses in the new proposed station like they have done at King George Sq Station.🤪

[ozbob]

Media Release

SEQ City Deal Information Request - $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba

22nd March 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has asked for more detail around the $450 million bus station at Woolloongabba contained within the SEQ City Deal announced today.

RAIL Back On Track requests a briefing on the location and design of the station and an explanation of the high costs. Also the web address where information can be found. In particular, our members would like to know why the current Woolloongabba busway station is not sufficient, and whether this station will be an improvement of the current station, a relocation of the station to be in-line with the SE Busway, or a completely new station, possibly underground. The proposed cost for this one bus station - $450 million - is absolutely enormous and represents 25% of the SEQ City Deal funding for the entire SEQ region. Indeed, its per-km costs are comparable to the construction of a tunnelled automated rail-based subway system.

In addition, we also request detailed information about the M3 Line of the 'Brisbane Metro' BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) bus line. We have no information about this, only information about Lines 1 and Lines 2, and therefore ask that information about the route origin, service frequency, vehicles used, number of vehicles to be in service or expected, and terminus of this service are provided to our members.

RAIL Back On Track supports project proposals on merit. We are not against the provision of expensive infrastructure, provided that commensurately high benefits to the community are also demonstrated. We look forward to being properly briefed on the Woolloongabba Station and M3 'Brisbane Metro' BRT line in a timely manner.

References

1. City Deal to Transform South East Queensland
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/city-deal-transform-south-east-queensland
"Key projects in the City Deal include:

$450 million for the Gabba Brisbane Metro Station, to deliver enhanced transport connections and support the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games;"

2. Gabba funding hurdle cleared for Olympic stadium
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/gabba-funding-hurdle-cleared-for-olympic-stadium-20220321-p5a6i0.html

"There, the metro will link with the state government's self-funded Cross River Rail and service the stadium and surrounding areas.
When queried about the hefty price tag, Mr Morrison said the metro station would be a "complex" project.
"Projects are different and they are defined by the needs and the planning of the future in those cities," he said."

3. Brisbane's $450m bus stop: So many unanswered questions
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbanes-450m-bus-stop-so-many-unanswered-questions/news-story/12a8d3b056b3ae08514f9b651aa4a401

Contact:
Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[paulg]

If it were something like this, i wouldnt mind it because its the equivalent of what was done at Boggo Rd to create a seamless interchange.
Gabba in its current form is a dumb little one station branch.

I think this is likely to be correct. At one point at the CRR information centre there was a map with a dotted line along a similar alignment, showing a future Metro route with in-line station.

I think it will be great for improving network effectiveness by allowing far better connectivity between 'Metro' and rail. The $450m price tag doesn't surprise me given that there will be significant tunneling required.

[timh]

Yeah having an in-line station at Woolloongabba would be a good outcome. This idea you've proposed here Gazza seems pretty likely IMO. It's similar to what SurfRail has hypothesised before IIRC. Gives you lots of flexibility. This amount of tunneling would also explain the high cost.

Despite it being a good idea, it's not really what I would have prioritised coming from the City Deal; I would have much rather seen a commitment to an underground Cultural Centre station. But I suspect we will have some information on that coming, considering another element in the City Deal is the "Brisbane Metro - South Bank Transport Study".

The Australian Government, Queensland Government and Brisbane City Council will co-fund an investigation into enhanced modal integration and transport connectivity to and through South Bank.

$1m for a study. Likely the outcome of the study will be a slightly tweaked version of the original underground CC station, just this time with TMR input.

Also regarding the "Metro 3" images: Likely a route that terminates at the new inline Gabba station, coming from the north. In my pipe-dream vision, this would be coming from Kedron Brook (future Chermside), with the missing link busway tunnel built between Fed st-truro st

[SurfRail]

"Metro 3" could just be an interim step while the Gabba remains off-line. 

Functionally the BM project is only to replace the 66 and the 111 with bigger vehicles that are easier to load and unload.  I don't know that they would have enough vehicles to run a third route with a fleet of only 60 and with 2 other services to run at high frequencies and which don't go to the Gabba.

[ozbob]

^

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1506344637937905665

[Jonno]

So a couple things:

1. "The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

2. This cannot be a pair of co-located stations like Boggo Rd but MUST enable the change of bus/train that arrives and departs from the same station connected by a concourse.

3. To connect to the main concourse requires the ability to get off bus station platform and walk to concourse.



4. This makes tunneling near the CRR tunnel tricky but I would think doable.  We want to minimise the "down time" for the existing busway so it make sense to leave the busway at the height it is (or slightly raised to allow for continuity of the concourse underneath) and closer to the CRR Station. 



5. the current location of the Gabba Bus Station/exit at Ipswich Rd/Stanley St cuts off a major vista/pedestrian link between future Gabba CRR site and the existing retail/restaurant precinct on Logan Rd.  Personally the entrance to the bus way should be in the Stanley street. Yes this will take away lanes going into the city . Booohoo. I think the on and off ramps should be removed anyway to make the area walkable and not vehicle sewer. 



6. Finally as the area surrounding the Olympic Stadium needs to be highly walkable and safe it makes actually make sense to reduce the number of buses at street level.  Thus the tunnels could be extended as below.  Would involve returning Wellington Rd back to two way traffic (safer for pedestrians) and Elfin, Lisburn and Latrobe Sts back to two way for east bound buses.  Could be done with the Stadium Rebuild.    Would avoid some horrible merges/dashes across traffic that the east bound buses do in the area too.

[#Metro]

"The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

It would still be an interchange if left above ground and we already will have such an interchange at Roma Street as well. 

[Jonno]

"The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

It would still be an interchange if left above ground and we already will have such an interchange at Roma Street as well. 

Roma Street is being integrated into a single concourse.

[Cazza]

"The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

It would still be an interchange if left above ground and we already will have such an interchange at Roma Street as well. 

But none of the buses from the SE Busway logically access it on their way to the CBD. An in-line Gabba busway station would allow a good majority of peak hour expresses to be canned, meaning that the all-day routes can function as the key CBD route (with an interchange to trains at the Gabba for Albert St and some kind of core eastern CBD route (like the Gold Glider but just not all the way to Hamilton...)) AND the key via South Bank route. This is something that is currently not possible.

I do like the idea as we have partially discussed on here before, but it comes with a very large WTF?? Why out of every transport project in SEQ this is the chosen one? This has never (to my knowledge) formally been mentioned and has never been on any Government's radar, yet just pops out of the blue ahead of projects that have been in the planning stages for decades. Maybe this is why the Gold Glider was proposed, without any sort of public knowledge of this new station proposal. It all seems very fishy to me.

[Gazza]

"The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

It would still be an interchange if left above ground and we already will have such an interchange at Roma Street as well. 

It doesnt really function well as an interchange, because its not possible to get directly from Gabba station to Greenslopes for example.

, but to be honest if its a new station, then it can have longer platforms and divide it into zones, eg one for M1, one for M2, another for normal buses.

Finally, one thing to consider is that if the old busway next to the M3 were left in place, it would be possible to have some services skip the Gabba (Though i think its a bad idea)
The only reason the busway is congested is because buses are half empty in peak (See bus review findings 2013)
Once you have the electric bi artics + CRR carrying more passengers + bus network changes to support the metro then it should be possible to have all services stop at Gabba and avoid the current complex arrangements.

[verbatim9]

So a couple things:

1. "The new Gabba Station is much more than a new station, it's a major new transport interchange linking our flagship cross-river rail, heavy rail upgrades with the Brisbane City Council's flagship Metro project." - ABC article - Quote from Deputy Premier Steven Miles.

2. This cannot be a pair of co-located stations like Boggo Rd but MUST enable the change of bus/train that arrives and departs from the same station connected by a concourse.

3. To connect to the main concourse requires the ability to get off bus station platform and walk to concourse.



4. This makes tunneling near the CRR tunnel tricky but I would think doable.  We want to minimise the "down time" for the existing busway so it make sense to leave the busway at the height it is (or slightly raised to allow for continuity of the concourse underneath) and closer to the CRR Station. 



5. the current location of the Gabba Bus Station/exit at Ipswich Rd/Stanley St cuts off a major vista/pedestrian link between future Gabba CRR site and the existing retail/restaurant precinct on Logan Rd.  Personally the entrance to the bus way should be in the Stanley street. Yes this will take away lanes going into the city . Booohoo. I think the on and off ramps should be removed anyway to make the area walkable and not vehicle sewer. 



6. Finally as the area surrounding the Olympic Stadium needs to be highly walkable and safe it makes actually make sense to reduce the number of buses at street level.  Thus the tunnels could be extended as below.  Would involve returning Wellington Rd back to two way traffic (safer for pedestrians) and Elfin, Lisburn and Latrobe Sts back to two way for east bound buses.  Could be done with the Stadium Rebuild.    Would avoid some horrible merges/dashes across traffic that the east bound buses do in the area too.

Option 2 is the best option in this respect with an underground portal starting at the Stanley and Wellington Street, and Jurgens and Stanley. It will really improve travel times.

Additionally, there will not be a need to have buses on the surface during events periods and people can catch the bus from a centralised underground location to any destination at the proposed underground Gabba station.

In regard to funding and building that section of tunnel. They could also draw funds and complete it in conjunction with the Gabba Stadium rebuild.

There will be disruptions anyway along that stretch of Stanley street with the stadium rebuild, so cut and cover tunnel building may be possible to save on costs.

Finished features of the section of Stanley street can include wider footpaths, shade trees, LED themed street lighting and a segregate cycle way connecting with the Gabba bikeway. It will really improve that area. It really is uninviting at the moment, being very dusty and noisy with heavy traffic. This is a unique opportunity to get that area right.

[Jonno]

I can only deduce that someone has done the movement numbers for the Stadium and gone, "we need the busway as well"!!

[verbatim9]

Their idea maybe making it a major interchange with Metro is to prevent congestion on the busway as it currently stands.

If a metro arrives every 5 mins, changing with a bus to the East will not be an issue.

e.g. People change successfully at Bondi Junction interchange from an underground train to bus or vice versa

[aldonius]

In conclusion, Metro services will go to Woolloongabba after all

[SurfRail]

Their idea maybe making it a major interchange with Metro is to prevent congestion on the busway as it currently stands.

If a metro arrives every 5 mins, changing with a bus to the East will not be an issue.

e.g. People change successfully at Bondi Junction interchange from an underground train to bus or vice versa

They won't be changing to Brisbane Metro unless they are headed to Mater Hill, South Bank or the Cultural Centre (hopefully).  Brisbane Metro in this situation is more akin to route 333 in Sydney, while the underground train is the underground train.

[Gazza]

I reckon it would only be Mater Hill.
If you were headed to South Bank or Cultural Center, you'd change to surface Heavy Rail at Boggo Rd.

[verbatim9]

Their idea maybe making it a major interchange with Metro is to prevent congestion on the busway as it currently stands.

If a metro arrives every 5 mins, changing with a bus to the East will not be an issue.

e.g. People change successfully at Bondi Junction interchange from an underground train to bus or vice versa

They won't be changing to Brisbane Metro unless they are headed to Mater Hill, South Bank or the Cultural Centre (hopefully).  Brisbane Metro in this situation is more akin to route 333 in Sydney, while the underground train is the underground train.

If people want to travel to King George Sq it maybe quicker to change to Metro services. Mater Hill and Southbank are very busy stations as it now stands. They have security guards to manage crowd control during peak times and events.

[Jonno]

There could be many many reason people interchange. 

[Derwan]

All this talk of a fancy new bus station and tunnel at Woolloongabba.  It's kinda pointless if the buses are still getting stuck on Victoria Bridge due to congestion.  We're at yet another "transport study" stage for South Brisbane.

An underground bus station at South Brisbane is vital to obtain the frequency and capacity required by the "metro" without significantly interfering with existing bus routes to West End.

[verbatim9]

All this talk of a fancy new bus station and tunnel at Woolloongabba.  It's kinda pointless if the buses are still getting stuck on Victoria Bridge due to congestion.  We're at yet another "transport study" stage for South Brisbane.

An underground bus station at South Brisbane is vital to obtain the frequency and capacity required by the "metro" without significantly interfering with existing bus routes to West End.

People have discussed on here previously that single ride services except for some bus routes to the city will be a thing of the past. People will need to start transferring to train or metro to get to the CBD and Fortitude Valley.

The idea of metro is to truncate services. People are likely to change to metro at Woolloongabba. It will be mostly metro services using the Southbank busway and Vic bridge. The other interchange proposed station is Griffith University for S and Se and Sw bus services.

[SurfRail]

^ Except that won't happen because capacity of the Metro service will be pitifully low.  They will NEED to keep running all the Mains Road services to the CBD because there won't be room for all those passengers.

Metro 1 and 2 are simply marginally more capacious versions of the 66 and 111.  Nothing more.

[verbatim9]

Yeah the 130 140 and 150 are extremely busy services. Maybe off-peak they can truncate those services with guaranteed first and last services to meet Metro and 24/7 Friday and Saturday nights.

[timh]

^ Except that won't happen because capacity of the Metro service will be pitifully low.  They will NEED to keep running all the Mains Road services to the CBD because there won't be room for all those passengers.

Metro 1 and 2 are simply marginally more capacious versions of the 66 and 111.  Nothing more.

I've spoken to the Metro team at their in-person info sessions. They basically confirmed to me that yeah, routes like 130,140 and 150 would not be changed

I could see the 156 and 157 being truncated to garden City. There's seriously not much need for those express routes if Metro is going to provide enough capacity to cover them. There's probably some other routes like the 161 and other "feeder" type routes that could be truncated to Garden City

[SurfRail]

There's plenty of scope to terminate buses at the Gabba, just that would mainly be for buses from the east and south-east surface routes, and the idea should be to funnel people onto trains.  If you are on a bus already on the busway, there is no point.

Even doubling the Brisbane Metro fleet isn't going to solve the capacity issue.  Proper network reform is going to be more valuable than the vehicles themselves.

The infrastructure upgrades will work even with the normal fleet, so I don't see that as a waste of capital.