RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: GonzoFonzie on September 06, 2024, 10:00:36 AMThey could have dual name system convention such as what they do in Canada or NZ.

e.g Albert Street (Meanjin)

They are both geographical descriptors.

I think it's already been mentioned earlier in this thread, but this basically isn't allowed for place names in Queensland, except as a transitional measure (e.g. Fraser Island-K'gari). The style guide is that if you're going to use an indigenous name you should just use it. I'm with the style guide on this one.

Quote from: Derailed2 on September 07, 2024, 16:17:40 PMThe other suggestions, including Meanjin on its own, would be meaningless to those not familiar with the city, or the rail network.

Inner city train stations are important enough landmarks that this doesn't matter. They create their own meaning: if the station were called Albert Street the term "Albert Street" would still become more synonymous with the station than the street itself.

Imagine if Sydney and Melbourne (not to mention a host of cities overseas) had to name 100% of their stations after locations on a train-less map. GC light rail is an example of how this can be counter-productive.

Quote from: SilverChased on September 09, 2024, 11:59:05 AMI was surprised that Sydney went with Gadigal, given that when I am at the airport, Sydney appears to be the only one that doesn't show a secondary name (Brisbane shows Meanjin).

I've noticed this as well and I think it's because Gadigal isn't actually a place name. Sydney sits on the traditional land of the Gadigal people, i.e. it's part of Gadigal Country. The Sydney Metro station therefore could be seen as more of a cultural/historical name than a strictly geographical one.

That's exactly correct!

In fact Gadigal was already used for a national park in Sydney's north 15-20km away from the station. Gadigal does not link to that location but from now on it will because of the station name.

I received a courteous response to my submission.  Thank you.

Quote from: ozbob on September 08, 2024, 05:17:04 AMI have today submitted a submission to info@crossriverrail.qld.gov.au supporting the naming of the present Albert Street Station as Meanjin Station as per https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/albert-street-station-naming/

Note deadline for submissions is 20th September 2024.

"Better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all." Sean-Paul Thomas,

https://x.com/metrotunnelvic/status/1833049014494793919

Is ANZAC station in Melbourne located in the suburb of ANZAC?

Quote from: Gazza on September 10, 2024, 09:10:08 AMIs ANZAC station in Melbourne located in the suburb of ANZAC?

Certainly isn't. 

It was named Anzac for the nearby Shrine of Remembrance and in honour of the Anzac spirit of "service and sacrifice".

Lest We Forget!

I completed a short interview on renaming Albert Street Station and Central Station on ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings earlier today.

Quote from: ozbob on September 11, 2024, 09:43:17 AMI completed a short interview on renaming Albert Street Station and Central Station on ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings earlier today.

ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings 11th September 2024 Interview Host Kate O'Toole with Robert Dow RBoT, discuss the possible renaming of Albert St Station and Central Station.

Interview --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_mornings_ko_rd_11sep24.mp3 MP3 9.9 MB

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1833698678613451223

Since that bit of Albert St is being pedestrianized, could they rename it "Meajin Square" ?

Then you get a place to name the station after in one hit.

^ certainly an option.  I prefer Meanjin, but you could submit that if you wished.

To clarify, the station would be called Meeanjin, the precinct at the entrance could be meeanjin Sq

Sent to all outlets:

Consideration of renaming Central Station Anzac Square Station

13th September 2024

Greetings,

With the SEQ Rail Connect network when Cross River Rail opens there are changes to the SEQ rail network.  Central Station will no longer be ' central ' to the network, Roma St station will be. Central Station is not central to Brisbane City either. There is a long standing suggestion to rename Central Station ' Anzac Square Station ' or perhaps an alternate ' Anzac Central '. RAIL Back On Track would like to see this possible renaming progressed in the same way as the renaming of Albert Street Station has.  It is worthwhile to note that Victoria named one of its new stations on the Melbourne Metro Tunnel ' Anzac ' in recognition of the nearby Shrine of Remembrance and in honour of the Anzac spirit of "service and sacrifice".

Brisbane's Shrine of Remembrance is located in Anzac square which is adjacent to Central Station.

Here is a youtube video to support the suggestion to rename Central Station "Anzac Square Station"

Recorded to support the Rail Back on Track suggestion to rename Central Station: "Anzac Sq. Station"



A recent interview on ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings. 11th September 2024 Interview Host Kate O'Toole with Robert Dow RBoT, discuss the possible renaming of Albert St Station and Central Station.

Interview --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_mornings_ko_rd_11sep24.mp3 MP3 9.9 MB

For interest, there have been numerous station name changes over the years.  There are times when change is a good thing.
An interesting collection here --> Stations on the rail network in SEQ Queensland that have changed names https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14186.0

For your consideration.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow Captain (Ret'd) RAAMC
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Facebook ...

Closing today at 5pm   

https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/albert-street-station-naming/

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101547

Community shapes station name

30th September 2024

Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital Services
The Honourable Bart Mellish

. New station to remain as 'Albert Street' for time being, after consultation process that showed strong support for 'Meanjin' also revealed concerns over spelling.

. Queenslanders have had their say on the name of Brisbane CBD's first new train station in more than 120 years

. Consultation showed support for renaming Central Station to Anzac Square

Brisbane CBD's first new train station in more than 120 years will remain as Albert Street, after a community feedback process let the public have their say.

A dedicated page on the Cross River Rail website offered four alternative names deemed to meet strict criteria set by the Department of Transport & Main Roads, with an option for public to also suggest alternative names.

A subsequent review of the community feedback has found that while there was support for all four of the pre-prepared names, this was eclipsed by strong and passionate lobbying via hundreds of detailed submissions for a name that included 'Meanjin'.

'Meanjin' is a name often used to recognise Brisbane's First Nation's heritage and given the permanence of a train station name, it was important that any review be sensitive to the views of Traditional Owner groups.

That consultation with Traditional Owners has identified that there are differences in opinion over the spelling, provenance and pronunciation of any indigenous name for Brisbane, and until such time as this can be clarified the Government feels it would be inappropriate to take the idea forward.

Recognising this sensitivity, the station name will be left as 'Albert Street' for now.

It was also noted during the review that there is support for re-naming Central Station, with 'Anzac Square' put forward as the most supported option.

Some initial consultation has occurred with the Veterans community on the Anzac Square proposal, but this would need further discussion with Queensland veterans and approval from the Federal Government for the use of the term Anzac.

Quotes attributed to Transport and Main Roads Minister Bart Mellish:

"Thank you to the community for your suggestions in naming what will be a truly transformational underground station for our city.

"The public consultation process showed strong support for 'Meanjin' however given concerns raised by Traditional Owner groups, it is important we do not rush into any decision until we have clarity around the spelling."

"We have also noted with interest the suggestions that Central Station might be renamed, as well as suggestions such as 'Anzac Square', and I have asked that this be looked into as part of any ongoing process."

"Cross River Rail will be a game-changer for public transport in south east Queensland and I know it will be embraced by visitors and locals alike, just like our 50 cent fares."

what a waste of hot air

  Okay then, what are the various alternative spellings of Meanjin

Quote from: Stillwater on September 30, 2024, 16:29:36 PM Okay then, what are the various alternative spellings of Meanjin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turrbal#:~:text=Meanjin%20(also%20Meeanjin%2C%20Mianjin),the%20Brisbane%20central%20business%20district.

Quote from: ozbob on September 30, 2024, 16:10:52 PM'Meanjin' is a name often used to recognise Brisbane's First Nation's heritage and given the permanence of a train station name, it was important that any review be sensitive to the views of Traditional Owner groups.

That consultation with Traditional Owners has identified that there are differences in opinion over the spelling, provenance and pronunciation of any indigenous name for Brisbane, and until such time as this can be clarified the Government feels it would be inappropriate to take the idea forward.

Recognising this sensitivity, the station name will be left as 'Albert Street' for now.

I thought that this might have been the case regarding the exclusion of Meanjin/Meeanjin/Mianjin.

Quote from: nathandavid88 on September 09, 2024, 14:07:39 PMI'm beginning to wonder whether there is something that has happened behind the scenes that has nixed Meanjin as an option. Maybe local Indigenous groups have objected to using the name in this way? Or maybe the Government just fears a strong Anti-Voice style backlash over using an Indigenous name, this close to the election.

The Brisbane Times gave some additional variations for Meanjin, used by differing events:

"Meanjin can also be spelt Meeanjin and Magan-djin. The FIFA Women's World Cup used the spelling Meaanjin last year, while the Brisbane Festival adopted the spelling Maganjin in its night drone show earlier this month.

At least they are still considering renaming Central Station to Anzac Sq Station.

Surely you just lock some Indigenous language linguists in a room for half a day to nut out a solution. After all, we sorted out the name Mt Kosciuszko without much trouble.

Quote from: verbatim9 on September 30, 2024, 18:27:04 PMAt least they are still considering renaming Central Station to Anzac Sq Station.

Agreed.

And taking the government at their word on consulting with Traditional Owners, if they hold concerns over proposed naming then it is the right decision not to progress with Meanjin at this stage.

Quote from: Stillwater on September 30, 2024, 18:52:53 PMSurely you just lock some Indigenous language linguists in a room for half a day to nut out a solution. After all, we sorted out the name Mt Kosciuszko without much trouble.

Indigenous language is cultural knowledge that is held by elders and their communities. There's not a dictionary to follow...not to mention the spelling of Indigenous language using English language is a Western and modern construct. They weren't naming train stations Meanjin 60,000 years ago...

Government's railroading Traditional Owners to force a quick decision now to suit a government agenda and deadline is not the way to go.

We don't need to know the Secret Men's Business, just the outcome.

Brisbanetimes --> And it will be called ... Albert Street station $

QuoteBrisbane's new underground CBD train station will be known as Albert Street station when it opens, amid a difference of opinion over how to spell and pronounce the Indigenous name Meanjin.

The under-construction Albert Street train station will be operational once Cross River rail is completed in 2026, making it the first new station for the CBD in more than 120 years.

The state government asked the public to vote on a potential new name, with four options: Albert Street, Brisbane City, City Botanic Gardens and Frog's Hollow.

Robert Dow, from public transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track, had pushed to name the station Meanjin – one version of the First Nations' name for the land on which Brisbane was built – after Sydney's Pitt Street metro station was named Gadigal.

His suggestion garnered significant support and the government received hundreds of detailed submissions for a name that included Meanjin. ...

Quote from: Stillwater on September 30, 2024, 22:41:20 PMWe don't need to know the Secret Men's Business, just the outcome.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean or it's relevance. But you do seem interested in the process not just the outcome - given the government's statement informed you of the outcome for now and yet you seem to think you could resolve it better by just forcing a few select people to make a quick decision?

Quote from: Stillwater on September 30, 2024, 16:29:36 PM Okay then, what are the various alternative spellings of Meanjin

Meeanjin is almost as common, and it's becoming more so. I thought if the indigenous station name got up it would always use an alternate spelling because "Meanjin" is just asking to be mispronounced by every visitor - a win for nobody.

But I don't know if I accept the government's explanation that this is a major blocker, because they would've outright said no. The press release was "we like the idea but maybe it's something we can circle back to later". Standard election period stuff.

I appreciate this was never going to go anywhere with an election coming up - there are legitimate issues to resolve and not enough time to ventilate them properly.

Notwithstanding, BCC now has 2 Citycats called "Mianjin".