RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: ozbob on July 12, 2024, 08:51:44 AMhttps://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-brisbane-s-shrinking-schools-bodies-of-australians-found-in-philippines-hotel-20240711-p5jsun.html?post=p5797i#p5797i

Metro buses get thumbs down from Labor councillors, thumbs up from Labor premier

Brisbane City Council's Labor opposition remains opposed to the $1.4 billion Metro electric mega-bus project, despite it being backed on Monday by their state Labor colleagues.

 

To some extent, I can to a degree agree with where the ALP is coming from on this.  For those who don't know, my personal health has deteriorated over the past few years, where I now use an electric wheelchair to get around (expected deterioration unfortunately), in the past 12 months too, I have moved to Carina Heights where route 203 is my closest route, I do have the option of catching routes 200/222 or route P205, however, those stops are about 800m away from where I live.  Given I have an electric wheelchair, if I want to catch routes 200/222 or P205, then I end up using about 10% of my battery power just to reach the stop from my apartment (20% in total for the return trip back home doing the same journey), catching route 203 means that I don't need to use that much battery power (only about 2% instead of about 10%), meaning I have more battery I can use while I'm out and about before I need to return home to get it recharged.

In the current network, it takes me two buses to get to QUT KG where I'm there almost everyday (Route 203 to Cultural Centre, then transfer onto routes 330/333/66 - and vice versa), in the new network, I'll have to get a bus to Buranda, transfer to the Metro to Roma Street, then transfer again at Roma Street for QUT KG).  I can tell you right now as a wheelchair user, the less transfers you make, the less stressful it is and less chance of something going wrong.  Same for blind people who catch public transport, they develop certain habits of catching buses in/out of the city to get to services/places, I know of one blind guy who holds out a '121' sign in order to catch route 121 out of the city to presumably somewhere in Moorooka or Sailsbury.

Basically, while there are benefits to truncating routes to key interchange locations, the accessibility and reducing the number of transfers also needs to be taken into account as much as possible, to prevent the public transport system becoming an ableist system, where it favours abled bodied people more than disabled people, purely by the design and layout.

With myself, I may end up having to get a Support Worker funded to transport me to/from QUT KG if the new network proves to be less usable with not only the number of transfers, but also if the Metro ends up being too full/awkward to board and park (and I need space to do that - hence I avoid fully loaded buses), which would be a shame as it obviously means more expense in the long run to the Government for funding this, but also can lead to more isolation if there are disabled people who struggle with multiple transfers.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

In this case, isnt metro to metro a bit different to a regular bus transfer because they are both HF and same platform transfers, so its not like you are having to navigate an interchange or deal with as long a wait?

Brisbanetimes --> Questions over $450 million Gabba Metro busway project $

QuotePlans for a $450 million busway and Metro station at Woolloongabba are being reconsidered due to the decision not to rebuild the Gabba.

The transport project, designed to complement the underground train station being built opposite the stadium, is the largest in the $1.8 billion South East Queensland City Deal. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1819037725032636695

I get it but continuing to push the longer-buses as the revolution that will turn around the worst public transport in Australia is just delusional!

Regardless of the Gabba being our Olympic Stadium or not, I think it would still be good to have the SE Busway/Metro service the Gabba in some way or form, even if it is just using the current bus station and turnaround.

The big benefit of the inline Gabba station was never serving Woollongabba so much as having a connection between the SE busway and Cross River Rail. Without this there will be no way to connect between these two key lines.

This would still be an important connection between CRR and bus - relying solely on Boggo Road for this is not going to be anywhere near as effective.

Quote from: OzGamer on August 02, 2024, 15:25:24 PMThe big benefit of the inline Gabba station was never serving Woollongabba so much as having a connection between the SE busway and Cross River Rail. Without this there will be no way to connect between these two key lines.

except Roma Street

Quote from: Jonno on August 02, 2024, 16:13:36 PM

Quote from: OzGamer on August 02, 2024, 15:25:24 PMThe big benefit of the inline Gabba station was never serving Woollongabba so much as having a connection between the SE busway and Cross River Rail. Without this there will be no way to connect between these two key lines.

except Roma Street

That's true, but that's a pain in the neck for many of the connections people might want as you might have to backtrack. An effective network enables as many good connections as possible.

From the article, it appears that it's just LM Schrinner wanting to divert the funds. Doesn't sound like the QLD Gov is reconsidering atm.

Quote from: RowBro on August 02, 2024, 16:33:49 PMFrom the article, it appears that it's just LM Schrinner wanting to divert the funds. Doesn't sound like the QLD Gov is reconsidering atm.

Federal funding that is allocated for a specific project cannot simply be "diverted", no matter how much the LM or the author of this article wishes. That $450m must either be spent on the intended project, otherwise its handed back to the Federal Government. The QLD Government did not contribute any of that funding.

Quote from: GonzoFonzie on August 02, 2024, 17:40:17 PM

Quote from: RowBro on August 02, 2024, 16:33:49 PMFrom the article, it appears that it's just LM Schrinner wanting to divert the funds. Doesn't sound like the QLD Gov is reconsidering atm.

Federal funding that is allocated for a specific project cannot simply be "diverted", no matter how much the LM or the author of this article wishes. That $450m must either be spent on the intended project, otherwise its handed back to the Federal Government. The QLD Government did not contribute any of that funding.

I wasnt sure how much of a contribution BCC was meant to put in originally.

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1819390778902565212

I saw a Metro big bus with signs saying it was in testing driving down Kingsford Smith Drive at Hamilton towards Eagle Farm the other day. Anyone know what it would be doing there?

They can be driven pretty much anywhere as I understand it.  The idea they are somehow restricted because of NHVR requirements I think is a furphy.

Quote from: OzGamer on August 05, 2024, 11:00:09 AMI saw a Metro big bus with signs saying it was in testing driving down Kingsford Smith Drive at Hamilton towards Eagle Farm the other day. Anyone know what it would be doing there?

Best guess... practicing for an imaginary extension to the Airport.

Otherwise it could either be going to the Eagle Farm bus depot or Skygate?

Eagle farm depot. That's where they are based at the moment.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on August 05, 2024, 12:01:29 PMEagle farm depot. That's where they are based at the moment.

I've been told that there are some stored elsewhere too, but yes, they are currently storing a handful at Eagle Farm.

They've been driving up and down Mount Cotton for ages too. They can drive anywhere. It wouldn't be for any sort of extension plan, just to go back to depot

Quote from: RowBro on August 05, 2024, 12:03:30 PM

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on August 05, 2024, 12:01:29 PMEagle farm depot. That's where they are based at the moment.

I've been told that there are some stored elsewhere too, but yes, they are currently storing a handful at Eagle Farm.

There's usually a number of them at the Rochedale Depot of an evening, at least the times I've bothered looking for them.

I've been using KGS station for a bit with the new doors but never noticed it until today. 

How incompatible the metro stops are with ordinary bus doors. Even the current artics.

Its very frustrating to see expensive infrastructure that isn't designed with anything else in mind

Just used Culture Centre station to transfer. Sorry there is no convincing that's NOT a cluster firetruck...was only going 3 stops to Woolloongabba.

Quote from: tazzer9 on August 16, 2024, 13:02:41 PMI've been using KGS station for a bit with the new doors but never noticed it until today. 

How incompatible the metro stops are with ordinary bus doors. Even the current artics.

Its very frustrating to see expensive infrastructure that isn't designed with anything else in mind

I also noticed this, yet aren't the Metro buses only going to use half the platform, while regular buses will be using the rest.

I also noticed that the Metro bus information centre on Adelaide St is now closed as from a few weeks ago.

The plan seems to be for them to only use half the platform, using their two dedicated spots.  But it's huge amount of space dedicated to only two services running at only 5 minute frequencies in peak hour only.  Especially in comparison to some of the the other route corridors such as the 330,330 and 340.  It would have been good to see the southbound platform at KGS retain the stop closest to adelaide street as effectively a set down only stop like it used to be.  Now there will be a lot of crowding at the entrance waiting for a very infrequent service for something known as a metro whilst everyone else will have to get past that have disembarked from regular buses from the suburbs.

True, but once that Adelaide Street tunnel is open next year services should be every 3-5 mins in peak.

Another thing I've noticed is that they haven't really widened the footpaths on Adelaide Street. It's mostly just a repaving exercise. I thought the vision was to have wider footpaths with one lane of bus traffic in either direction with pull in combined stops.

Sent to all outlets:

BERT - Bus Electric Rapid Transit

19th August 2024

Greetings,

Sydney opens up the latest section of their Metro ( a real Metro ) today.  Well done.

Sydney Metro City to open on Monday 19 August
https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/sydney-metro-city-to-open-on-monday-19-august

Brisbane continues to labour on with the grossly inaccurate name of the Brisbane Electric Bi-Articulated bus rapid transport as the " Brisbane Metro ".

We tried hard for a long time to get the authorities to name the so called "Brisbane Metro" as something in line with its true character as good bus rapid transit.

Our suggestion is BERT - Busway or bus Electric Rapid Transit.  The bi-articulated electric buses could be named ' Berties '.  Brisbane's BERT would be a winner, it really describes what it properly is, be a great marketing tool, and would help put an end to the constant downplaying of the "Brisbane Metro" as something it is not.  It would help promote BERT for its true nature as much improved bus rapid transit.

The  embarrassing farcical juxtaposition of the Sydney Metro versus the Brisbane Metro has never been more sharply in focus.

It is never too late to sort out failure.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Facebook ...

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1825203604921434367

Quote from: ozbob on August 19, 2024, 02:01:08 AMFacebook ...

BERT - Bus Electric Rapid Transit 19th August 2024 Greetings, Sydney opens up the latest section of their Metro ( a...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Sunday 18 August 2024

Response to this Facebook post has been very good. 

Clearly most interested observers seem to understand what a true metro is and what is bus rapid transit.

E.g.

https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/916407087192814?comment_id=1440136383370943

QuoteI can imagine people coming here for the Olympics and seeing signs saying Brisbane Metro and looking around for stairs to take them underground with nothing in sight. Can only imagine their confusion when they're told that our "Metro" is just a fancy bus. I can see it becoming the laughing stock of the entire world when it's shown. Better to change it now before it starts then when in service.

Quote from: verbatim9 on August 18, 2024, 11:27:43 AMAnother thing I've noticed is that they haven't really widened the footpaths on Adelaide Street. It's mostly just a repaving exercise. I thought the vision was to have wider footpaths with one lane of bus traffic in either direction with pull in combined stops.

Adelaide Street is already only one lane of bus traffic in either direction with the bus stopping on either side (excluding the inclusion of turning lanes at the George and Edward Street intersections) - there's no further space that can be pulled from that road. The original Adelaide Street vision document did propose build outs bookending the bus stops, but they were only ever in limited areas (like around the pedestrian crossing they added down near Queens Plaza). I don't know whether they have been canned, or whether on-road works are just yet to come.

Also, the Adelaide Street footpaths, for the most part, are already quite generous in terms of size. It was mainly that they were too cluttered by the positioning of the old bus shelters, street furniture and sail awnings.

^ The lack of any revised document  should tell us all we need to know. It's just a routine spruce up now. I don't think they can do any build outs because they're not fixing the chaotic bus stop situation.

I'd love to be proven wrong but the website would be talking about it if anything more was happening.

Couriermail --> Bold push to extend Metro to SEQ suburbs in time for 2032 $

QuoteBrisbane Metro would extend to the airport and deep into South East Queensland suburbs under a major proposal to solve a critical public transport shortage before the 2032 Olympics.

Twenty-two new stations would be built on an extended network to Carseldine, Capalaba, Springwood and the airport, through Airportlink, Doomben and DFO.

The Courier-Mail can reveal Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner, Premier Steven Miles and the Council of Mayors SEQ have pledged to join forces and lobby the federal government to fast-track a business case for the bold extension. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1828470299572224135

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1828472032729972800

Sent to all outlets:

Bold push to extend BERT !

28th August 2024

Good Morning,

Some interesting news concerning BERT ( ' Brisbane NOT A Metro ').

As reported today by the Couriermail  Bold push to extend Metro to SEQ suburbs in time for 2032 https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/bold-push-to-extend-metro-to-seq-suburbs-in-time-for-2032/news-story/7df9e77154a65825af84acfb03c93c82 plans to extend BERT.



Firstly, the headline should really read ' Bold push to extend BERT (bus electric rapid transit) to SEQ suburbs in time for 2032 '
Correct descriptions are important, 'Brisbane Metro' is bus rapid transit. Go to Sydney to see what a real Metro is.

BERT is good bus rapid transit, but let's not pretend it is something it is not.

Expanding BERT, the bus electric rapid transit, is something we support. It means better capacity on high frequency BERT routes, and allows more buses to be deployed to feeder, cross-suburban and new bus routes.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on August 19, 2024, 01:51:49 AMSent to all outlets:

BERT - Bus Electric Rapid Transit

19th August 2024

Greetings,

Sydney opens up the latest section of their Metro ( a real Metro ) today.  Well done.

Sydney Metro City to open on Monday 19 August
https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/sydney-metro-city-to-open-on-monday-19-august

Brisbane continues to labour on with the grossly inaccurate name of the Brisbane Electric Bi-Articulated bus rapid transport as the " Brisbane Metro ".

We tried hard for a long time to get the authorities to name the so called "Brisbane Metro" as something in line with its true character as good bus rapid transit.

Our suggestion is BERT - Bus Electric Rapid Transit.  The bi-articulated electric buses could be named ' Berties '.  Brisbane's BERT would be a winner, it really describes what it properly is, be a great marketing tool, and would help put an end to the constant downplaying of the "Brisbane Metro" as something it is not.  It would help promote BERT for its true nature as much improved bus rapid transit.

The  embarrassing farcical juxtaposition of the Sydney Metro versus the Brisbane Metro has never been more sharply in focus.

It is never too late to sort out failure.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

A couple of things (if this map is based on actual government plans)

- I support extensions to Springwood (eventually Hyperdome), Capalaba and Carseldine, provided they are at least class B ROW. They should just use the existing Eastern and Northern busway plans where possible

-Missing link between Fed street / Truro street needs to be sorted out

- I do NOT support conversion of the Doomben line to BRT, which is what this map seems to imply.

- I note that the map does not put Woolloongabba station inline on the South East busway. The lines drawn seem to indicate to me that the Metro out to Capalaba would take the route of the maroon city glider between Stones corner and Woolloongabba. I would support this if Logan road got class B row through that section.

- notably that's the first hint we've gotten that Woolloongabba inline busway station might be scrapped.

- Also notable is the lack of any mention of a spur line down Mains road to QSAC, which is disappointing

I also don't support BERT to the Airport via Airportlink tunnel. Whats the point? Simply duplicating yet another railway.
If it was Airport via Hamilton etc, sure. But a bus line from the city to the airport running in a tunnel most of the way, when we already have a good rail link? No.

1.4 million in 1st week. That's Metro and what is needed here!!

BRT will move 10's of thousands not millions!

So much wrong with this stupidity!

Well well, Cr Murphy is starting to recognise BRT!

Has the State vacated public transport planning?