RAIL - Back On Track Forum

QuoteSpringwood transfer station

Since when does Springwood have a tip?

QuoteHardest hit are expected to be Logan Hyperdome...
Springwood transfer station(sic)
Chermside Shopping Centre
Eight Mile Plains bus station
Springfield Central
Geebung train station
Greenbank exchange (sic)
Lindum train station
Salisbury train station.

Their list confirms what I already thought. The big exurban park and rides on the edges of the network will be hardest hit. Their wording around Greenbank and Springwood is stupid though. I assume in Greebank they're talking about the Park n' ride at the RSL?

I'm also curious about the absence of some stations from this list. Coomera surely will be problematic. Although I guess the article is mostly focusing on the strain on shopping centre carparks without boomgates.
I also think Ferny Grove, Mango Hill, Helensvale, Springfield, Richlands, Bray Park and Sandgate will cop it pretty bad.

Why Lindum and Salisbury though?

I also thought it was HILARIOUS reading about Wilson's parking whinging in the article about "muh lost revenue!" Cope harder.

Overall the article really highlights that most people's default thinking in getting to a station in SEQ is via car. I know people who work in the city who absolutely DETEST the idea of transferring at all. Single seat journeys or nothing is a very very ingrained culture here in SEQ, one I'd really like to see changed.

I did note the line about the interest in increasing buses to feed train stations, and I note this comes off the heels of similar comments from Schrinner when the the 50c fares were announced. I just hope they put their money where their mouth is when it comes to these feeder services. They need to be frequent and convenient enough in peak to catch the office commuter market (which is the bulk of Park n' ride patronage from what I understand), and I think their should be some significant advertising around them as a convenient alternative to Park n' Ride.

Improving feeder services to Springfield Central, Coomera and Eight Mile Plains seem like obvious ones as they already have the infrastructure to support this. Big interchanges that are currently pretty underutilised (ESPECIALLY Springfield Central)

Chermside and Garden city *arguably* already do a good enough job of this, but it could be better.

For example, the 123, 174, 175 and 184 could act as decent feeder services to Garden City from nearby suburbs (UMG, MG, MGE, Macgregor and Wishart). However problem is, they start at Garden city and go TO the city, so if you live *just* north or east of Garden city and want to catch the 175 TO Garden city in the morning peak, you're going counter-peak so the frequency is horrendous and makes it very inconvenient. It is a much quicker trip to the city via the busway than the 175 in peak, especially considering all the rocket/express services ie. 156, 161, etc., so people living around Garden city that find it a little too far to walk to the bus interchange don't actually have all that great an option. The Park 'n ride is fills up with Garden City workers too because as I understand it retail workers at Garden City STILL have to pay to park there (huge rip off imo).

The 123 has terrible frequency to begin with and really MacGregor deserves better IMO. Terrible alignment too.

^^ I'm expecting pandemonium at the Logan Hyperdome, which has quite limited commuter parking and a lot of overflow into  the centre's carpark as it is.

30 years of road centric transport investment is coming home to roost.

Can members take photos to document what happens on the day? Would be interesting to compare notes.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-is-your-child-s-school-overcrowded-qld-win-first-ever-women-s-origin-latest-bt-quiz-20240627-p5jpa1.html?post=p57775#p57775

Fears 50¢ transport fares could put half Brisbane routes over capacity: Council

QuoteThousands of bus commuters could be left behind at Brisbane bus stops each week if the state government's 50¢ fare trial creates too much demand, the city council warns. ...

Couriermail --> 50c fares: Brisbane City Council claims slashed prices will cause more passengers to be left behind $

QuoteUp to 3 million commuters could be left behind at Brisbane's busiest bus stops if extra services aren't added before the State Government's 50c public transport fares come into effect, new research by Brisbane City Council reveals.

Council modelling of current bus route capacity limits shows 113 of Brisbane's 224 bus routes will exceed capacity if demand increases by just 10 per cent when a six-month trial of heavily-subsidised fares starts in early August.

This would result in 12,600 commuters being left behind each weekday, according to the council.

If demand increases by 30 per cent, the number of overcrowded routes would increase to 145, resulting in 23,507 commuters left stranded each weekday, the council said. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1806506446307426428

An increase of around 10% puts the patronage back at the levels it was prior to COVID.

So BCC modelling is confirming the fact that Brisbane bus network reform is long overdue.

A question for the   

What does the Translink modelling show?  Does it align with BCC's ?



(from https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15668.0 )

So there are some additional dimensions to this. The time dimension in particular.

Without a peak hour fare, masses of people are likely to be attracted to peak bus or train services.

There isn't space on the network for a massive 10% spike in peak hour loading (say plus 30,000 new peak hour passengers on the morning) I would imagine.

To borrow a phrase ' if the peak were spread' then this would be less of a concern.

^ good point, but peak travel has changed since pre-covid.  The bus network was carrying a lot more in 2019 than it is today.  I think BCC's modelling is not quite right.  It really needs to be confirmed by Translink.

Brisbanetimes --> Outer suburban travellers to be left behind under 50¢ fare scheme: council

QuoteThousands of people living in Brisbane's outer suburbs would be left behind by crowded buses when 50¢ fares are introduced, modelling released by the city council shows. ...

On Friday, City Hall set its demand at an additional $91 million a year for the next five years, to cope with population growth and to buy more buses to meet the expected demand as lower fares from August 5 attracted new travellers.

According to its modelling, a 10 per increase in passengers would mean each weekday, more than 12,000 passengers would not fit on buses on more than half of Brisbane's routes.

Worst affected would be route 66, which runs between UQ and QUT, and buses to the southern suburbs of Forest Lake, Parkinson and Browns Plains. ...

 ... Public transport advocate Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track said he did not believe the over-crowding impact would be as widespread as the council predicted.

Dow said there was still capacity in the south-east Queensland bus network as patronage returned to pre-COVID levels.

"A 10 per cent increase is only going to give them as much as they had in 2019," he said.

"I think those figures that Brisbane City Council have released need to be confirmed by [transport operator] Translink. They look a bit suspect to me." ...

Quote from: timh on June 26, 2024, 11:13:58 AM

QuoteHardest hit are expected to be Logan Hyperdome...
Springwood transfer station(sic)
Chermside Shopping Centre
Eight Mile Plains bus station
Springfield Central
Geebung train station
Greenbank exchange (sic)
Lindum train station
Salisbury train station.

The issues with Eight Mile Plains have been in plain sight for a long time for anyone remotely familiar with it (I'm not super familiar with the other ones). It represents a failure of public transport in the outer suburbs. People drive from all over - Rochedale South, Logan, Calamvale, Browns Plains to Eight Mile Plains and catch the 111/555 into the CBD.

The Eight Mile Plains car park is massive for those who aren't familiar with it. There are actually two car parks. The primary car park fills quite early and so people then go to the secondary car park across the main road. I haven't used it for > 5 years but I can't imagine it would have changed.

No easy solutions but I can think of a few - BRT/dedicated bus lanes for the south (and probably the north too, less familiar with that part of town), better footpaths (shade, footpaths for areas that don't have them, road crossings, etc.) and better bus stops (some of them are awful to wait at).

Where does BCC think the $800million extra revenue is delivered from with the new electric buses?

Demand for the 314 will skyrocket! They'll have to run a 3rd service to cope.

There are still many short falls with the 50c and bus demand. Most of the outer rockets (for the Northside) won't see big demand from there but more so those on the inner core. Take the 341 peak direction only rocket for Fitzgibbon on the 329. A lot of people there on bcc routes will still prefer to drive to railway interchanges instead.

But let's not forget the 50c fares will also be during the quieter months/holidays where peak demand isn't there which is a good thing to get people onto PT. Even with the 50c fares we will still see the 599 bypassing DFO on Boxing Day as people will still prefer to drive there.

ABC News: Brisbane City Council warns of overcrowded buses during state government's 50c fares trial

Quote... Translink disputes council's figures

The council has not shared its modelling with the state government but said it would brief Translink on Thursday.

A Translink spokesperson said patronage across all modes of public transport in South East Queensland was at 87 per cent of pre-Covid levels, which meant there was capacity on many services across the region.

"Translink's initial modelling does not support BCC's claims about the overcrowding and Translink has requested a meeting with BCC to discuss their modelling and the assumptions they have used," they said.

"It is important to note that patronage on BCC buses has not returned to pre-COVID levels, yet service levels have not been cut by the state government to account for reduced demand.

"There are about eight million fewer passenger trips on BCC buses in 2023/24 compared to 2018/19."

The spokesperson said preparations were underway ahead of the 50c fares trial, including ramping up Translink's operations centre and identifying additional parking options for commuters.

They also said rail replacement buses would be available for deployment. ...

Exactly, the patronage figures are there for all to see 

Thanks also to Brisbanetimes for highlighting our quarterly patronage summary as well.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on June 28, 2024, 17:44:26 PMDemand for the 314 will skyrocket! They'll have to run a 3rd service to cope. ...

Facebook ...

326, 327, 337, 338 and but most importantly the 302 are on that list. The 302 is on the list. A anti peak only service. Running City-Pinkenba. Morning services stop running before 8am. Afternoon services stop running before 5.30pm. Running mostly along a heavily duplicated corridor.

Also interesting to note the 322 has a high number of left behind across all percentages yet the bulk of the corridor patronage it shares with the 306 has 0 passengers left behind. Granted it sometimes doesn't run beyond Toombul but at the same time sometimes the 322 doesn't run Wavell Heights-City so it works out? The 302 and 306 has a higher chance of people left behind than the 310. 338 has more passengers left behind at 10% than it does at 30%. The air parcel 337 has more passengers left behind than the city loop routes at 20% and 30% load but 0% risk of passengers left behind at 10%

Something very iffy about their modelling data.

Based on this I would say BCC has lost any credibility in the bus route planning stakes. 

BCC has been politicised beyond being effective.

Quote from: andrewr on June 28, 2024, 16:21:13 PM

Quote from: timh on June 26, 2024, 11:13:58 AM

QuoteHardest hit are expected to be Logan Hyperdome...
Springwood transfer station(sic)
Chermside Shopping Centre
Eight Mile Plains bus station
Springfield Central
Geebung train station
Greenbank exchange (sic)
Lindum train station
Salisbury train station.

The issues with Eight Mile Plains have been in plain sight for a long time for anyone remotely familiar with it (I'm not super familiar with the other ones). It represents a failure of public transport in the outer suburbs. People drive from all over - Rochedale South, Logan, Calamvale, Browns Plains to Eight Mile Plains and catch the 111/555 into the CBD.

The Eight Mile Plains car park is massive for those who aren't familiar with it. There are actually two car parks. The primary car park fills quite early and so people then go to the secondary car park across the main road. I haven't used it for > 5 years but I can't imagine it would have changed.

No easy solutions but I can think of a few - BRT/dedicated bus lanes for the south (and probably the north too, less familiar with that part of town), better footpaths (shade, footpaths for areas that don't have them, road crossings, etc.) and better bus stops (some of them are awful to wait at).

When it's complete, I think the new bus station and park n ride under construction at Rochedale should help ease some of the park n ride demand on Eight Mile Plains - it will likely soak up demand from the south (Rochedale South, Springwood, etc). However, demand from the fast growing Rochedale area will likely remain

Sent to all outlets:

Reported  Queensland Rail Citytrain service disruptions January 2024 to June 2024

5th July 2024

We record the reported service disruptions by Translink on X daily.

The most common cause of a reported service disruption on the Citytrain network for the first six months of 2024 was ' Train fault ', followed by ' Signal Issue ' and so forth.

This it is not an absolute analysis of the number of actual faults etc. but gives a relative guide to the impact of various causes of service disruptions.  For example one train fault can give rise to a number of follow on service disruptions. What it is showing is the overall impact on Citytrain service delivery of the various causes of disruptions listed.

With the introduction of the Fifty Cent Fares from August 5th, and when consider the poor on-time running performance for both Citytrain ( see > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=284692 ) and Bus ( see > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15669.0 ), it is looking like a lot of passengers are going to have a less than desirable travel experience.  Many years of neglect of SEQ Public Transport are coming home to roost in a big way.

We also have longer term concerns for the opening of Cross River Rail, with this level of train faults and signal issues it too is going to be problematical as well by the looks of things.

Forewarned is forearmed!  We expect that this correspondence will be ignored.  But at least we try.


image:  https://backontrack.org/docs/qr/citytraindisruptions/SummaryJan24_Jun24sorted.png

Reference: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15542.0

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1809003581837824001

Couriermail --> Bart Mellish reveals council weren't consulted on 50c fares for public transport $

QuoteTransport and Main Roads Minister Bart Mellish has revealed the Brisbane City Council was not consulted prior to the Queensland Government's decision to implement 50c fares for public transport.

In an interview with 4BC on Saturday morning, Mr Mellish was pressed by radio host Peter Fegan on whether the state government consulted BCC on 50c flat rate fares for public transport from August 5.

Asked three times, Mr Mellish eventually confirmed the Miles Government did not consult council, responding to Mr Fegan's questioning with a simple "no". ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1809635122200895626

We're Council consulted on not charging drivers for using the road each and every time they use it?

No!

Couriermail --> On-demand buses: Brisbane Metro funding stoush finally resolved $

QuoteBrisbane Metro will be running by October under a significant deal struck between the state government and Brisbane City Council to end a public stoush over transport funding.

Premier Steven Miles will provide an extra $75m to Brisbane City Council for its bus network and an ongoing 75:25 funding split.

It ends weeks of public criticism from the council about the state's lack of investment in buses and ensures services will be ready for the 50c fare trial from August 5. ...

... Under the deal, the northside bus network will be reviewed following the introduction of Brisbane Metro and the council and state will meet annually to consider adding capacity into the network.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Bart Mellish said the government aimed to make Brisbane's public transport network "the best in the world". ...

Quote from: ozbob on July 08, 2024, 04:13:58 AMCouriermail --> On-demand buses: Brisbane Metro funding stoush finally resolved $

QuoteBrisbane Metro will be running by October under a significant deal struck between the state government and Brisbane City Council to end a public stoush over transport funding.

Premier Steven Miles will provide an extra $75m to Brisbane City Council for its bus network and an ongoing 75:25 funding split.

It ends weeks of public criticism from the council about the state's lack of investment in buses and ensures services will be ready for the 50c fare trial from August 5. ...

... Under the deal, the northside bus network will be reviewed following the introduction of Brisbane Metro and the council and state will meet annually to consider adding capacity into the network.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Bart Mellish said the government aimed to make Brisbane's public transport network "the best in the world". ...

I love how they both think that the system is working well and that just annual reviews and tweeks are needed!! WORST PUBLUC TRANSPORT IN AUSTRALIA!!

Quote from: Courier-MailTransport and Main Roads Minister Bart Mellish said the government aimed to make Brisbane's public transport network "the best in the world". ...

One of the cultural things I have noticed about the Queensland Government, in addition to generally only acting if there is a second co-acting stakeholder also onboard, is this constant reference to things being world class or the best in the world, or aiming to be that.

If the services were indeed the best in the world, there would be no need to point that out constantly. It would just be obvious.

Perth does not seem to have to point these things out, it has an excellent rail network, that outperforms ours.

Quote from: #Metro on July 08, 2024, 08:41:30 AMPerth does not seem to have to point these things out, it has an excellent rail network, that outperforms ours.

But they do? Some recent examples:

May 2024: https://www.ourstatebudget.wa.gov.au/2024-25/transport.html

QuoteThis includes the METRONET program of works, which comprises 18 projects that are delivering a world-class public transport system

December 2023: https://www.wa.gov.au/government/media-statements/Cook-Labor-Government/Summer-of-Free-Public-Transport-on-the-horizon-20231215

QuoteVery soon, more Western Australians than ever before will be able to benefit from our two-zone fare cap and world class public transport network

September 2023: https://www.wa.gov.au/government/media-statements/Cook-Labor-Government/New-payment-options-for-public-transport-one-step-closer--20230929

QuoteWe're investing billions of dollars into our world class public transport system through METRONET

September 2023: https://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/15/annualreports/2023/Public%20Transport%20Authority%20Annual%20Report%202022-23.pdf
Title of the PTA's annual report is "WORLD-CLASS PUBLIC TRANSPORT"

Oh no! Its spreading!! 

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2024/720-2024.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 720
Asked on 11 June 2024

MR S MINNIKIN ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITAL SERVICES (HON B MELLISH)

QUESTION:

Will the Minister provide a list of additional bus and train services that will be provided during the
50 cent fare trial period to cater for any additional demand?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Chatsworth for the question.

From 5 August 2024, for six months, all public transport fares in Queensland will be a flat rate of
50 cents per journey for everyone across all zones.

Public transport usage across all modes remains about 13 per cent below pre-COVID-19 levels.
The Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) will monitor loading and demand on all
public transport services during the trial to help inform future decisions on the cost of public
transport fares and service levels. TMR understands many of the services are well used by the
community, particularly during peak times, and will work closely with delivery partners to assess
any issues, should they arise.

In addition, TMR will have a reliable fleet of locally made and manufactured rail replacement
buses available to deploy, where necessary.

On 8 July 2024, the Miles Government signed a separate funding agreement with Brisbane City
Council for additional funding support for the Brisbane bus network. The Funding Agreement will
see the State contribute an additional $75 million towards Brisbane services for the next
12 months.

This agreement will support the introduction of 50 cent fares with demand responsive buses
providing additional capacity where it is needed most. It will also allow for the rapid deployment
of high-capacity Brisbane Metro vehicles from October 2024. Importantly, Brisbane Metro
vehicles will be introduced on the busy Route 169 between Eight Mile Plains and the University
of Queensland, St Lucia campus. Brisbane Metro vehicles can carry up to 150 passengers.

TMR encourages passengers to use the Service Capacity Tracker, which can be accessed at
www.translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/capacity-tracker and provides detailed information
about the space available on services and can be tailored to specific travel days and times.

^ Another non answer essentially.

The Translink reported bus service disruptions are getting worse not better.

(See https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15659.0 for the latest reports).

Bus operators are not able to deliver their timetables at present, not sure how this is going to go after August 5th when the 50 cent fares are on.

Driver shortages continue and possibly will get worse with further age health restrictions on drivers.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2024/859-2024.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 859
Asked on 14 June 2024

DR M ROBINSON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITAL SERVICES (HON B MELLISH)

QUESTION:

Will the Minister advise in relation to the availability of 50 cent fares for North Stradbroke Island
residents and visitors and whether this initiative will apply to both water taxi and bus services?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Oodgeroo for the question.

The Miles Government is providing critical cost of living relief to Queenslanders by reducing public
transport fares to a flat rate of 50 cents across all zones, from Monday 5 August 2024 for six
months. This public transport initiative will save public transport users hundreds of dollars.
Customers will be able to travel for 50 cents on the Translink network including bus, train
(excluding Airtrain), ferry, tram and on demand services in South East Queensland, including
North Stradbroke Island buses, and all regional buses.

North Stradbroke Island ferries and Coochiemudlo Island services are privately-operated and
therefore the 50 cent fare initiative does not apply to these services.

They are operated by a service provider just like the majority of the other 29 providers?

The Coochie ferry should be a TransLink service like the Russell Island runs, but Minjerribah is a different kettle of fish.

The Straddle Ferry is shorter than the full City Cat trip...just saying.

Quote from: Jonno on July 16, 2024, 07:00:24 AMThe Straddle Ferry is shorter than the full City Cat trip...just saying.

Sure, but the median CityCat passenger is only going about 4 stops (out of 18). So in terms of boardings per service-km (or service-hour) the CityCat is going to do much better. Of course the Minjerribah ferry can charge more per boarding.

(See attached for the gory CityCat details. I've tried to account for round-trippers but it doesn't really change the outcome - the mean distance increases by 0.3 stops with median and mode unchanged.)

Quote from: SurfRail on July 16, 2024, 06:33:30 AMThe Coochie ferry should be a TransLink service like the Russell Island runs, but Minjerribah is a different kettle of fish.

Couldn't it be in a special zone, like AirTrain? The buses on the island should definitely by a Translink service, though.

They should consider a 7 day cap across all modes Qld wide in any 7 day period, similar to what Auckland has just implemented, once the 50c trial has ended. ---> https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9952.msg285688#msg285688

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1814767313075290559

https://x.com/QueenslandRail/status/1816615259433570693