RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Car brain is strong at TMR!!

How can we propose a better (or at least really competitive) counter-proposal that makes TMR think twice about projects like this?

The LGFR project doesn't seem to be a good counter-proposal because it mainly acts on reliability and not speed or frequency.

We shouldn't have to

They should be professionals and do the right thing by their "share holders" the people of Queensland!

QuoteWe shouldn't have to

They should be professionals and do the right thing by their "share holders" the people of Queensland!

Democracy is not necessarily meritocracy. Roads are popular, so they get built. They also do the job 'good enough', just not optimally in many cases.

A better PT value proposition that gets both the public and public service on board would be better than a choice between roads and nothing as the alternative.

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99245

Coomera Connector Stage 1 South design released for community feedback

27th November 2023

Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital Services
The Honourable Mark Bailey

The design of the southern section of the Coomera Connector, or 'Second M1', is progressing, with the community encouraged to provide feedback during the next vital phase of the project.

The Coomera Connector is South East Queensland's largest road infrastructure project, with the Stage 1 package of works (North, Central and South) featuring 16 kilometres of new motorway between Coomera and Nerang.

Stage 1 South connects from the Smith Street Motorway to a new interchange at Southport-Nerang Road, before crossing the Nerang River and finishing at a new intersection with Nerang-Broadbeach Road.

Based on previous community feedback, design changes have been made at the southern end of Nerang.

The Australian and Queensland governments have committed $2.16 billion on a 50:50 basis to plan and build Coomera Connector Stage 1 between Coomera and Nerang.

The design for Stage 1 South is being undertaken by the BG&E Pty Ltd and HDR Pty Ltd Joint Venture (BHJV).

An early works package south of Nerang River will commence in the new year, with major construction expected to start in late 2024.

The community is invited to provide feedback as part of the design phase until 17 December 2023.

To provide feedback, find out more about the project or register for updates, the community can:

. visit www.tmr.qld.gov.au/coomeraconnector     
. email coomeraconnector@bhjvsouth.com.au
. phone the project team on 1800 568 978 (select option 3)

Quotes attributable to Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government Catherine King:

"With major construction now underway on Stage 1 North and design works progressing on Stage 1 Central and South, this vital new motorway is really starting to take shape.

"We know congestion continues to be a big issue for this region which is why we are progressing this critical piece of infrastructure – building a safe, connected and well-planned motorway.

"This project, jointly funded by Australian and Queensland governments is yet another example of what the Albanese and Palaszczuk governments can achieve together to deliver for Gold Coast residents and for Queenslanders."

Quotes attributable to the Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey:

"The Coomera Connector is a key link in South East Queensland's future transport network and will help improve how Gold Coast residents move around their neighbourhoods.

"It's really important to engage with key stakeholders and the community in the design phase, as we have done on the North package of work under Stage 1.

"The southern section of Stage 1 boasts a shared path that joins with the Central and Northern packages of work. This is exciting for people like me who love to cycle, or those who like to walk or use a mobility scooter or wheelchair. We encourage people to get involved and learn more about the active transport plans and ask questions of the project team.

"A Second M1 will be critical in easing traffic congestion between the Gold Coast and Logan and enable locals to make shorter trips without needing to get on the M1.

"The Coomera Connector is a major project in our Government's commitment to building Queensland by investing in infrastructure that supports more jobs, builds resilience and underpins future prosperity for Queenslanders."

Quotes attributable to Senator for Queensland Murray Watt:

"It's great to see both levels of Government working together to deliver such a significant project for the Gold Coast.

"The Second M1 will cut congestion, helping locals to get around faster and with less hassle.

"Earlier feedback has helped shape the design process so far, and I'd encourage anyone interested to hop on the website and have their say."

Quotes attributable to Member for Gaven Meaghan Scanlon:

"I made an election commitment to build the Second M1 and this massive project will ease congestion for our growing city.

"It's exciting to see the southern section of Stage 1 take shape. This project has not only created hundreds of jobs it will connect the southeast – making it easier, faster, and more convenient for people living, working and visiting the region.

"As our city grows, we need to make sure it keeps moving – whether that's on the road, via rail, light rail or on buses."

ENDS

Quote from: ozbob on November 27, 2023, 23:19:28 PMQuotes attributable to Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government Catherine King:

"We know congestion continues to be a big issue for this region which is why we are progressing this critical piece of infrastructure – building a safe, connected and well-planned motorway.

But instead of doing something to fix it, like expanding the SEQ rail network, we're continuing to build motorways, which have never been demonstrated to reduce congestion anywhere.

QuoteQuotes attributable to the Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey:
"A Second M1 will be critical in easing traffic congestion between the Gold Coast and Logan and enable locals to make shorter trips without needing to get on the M1.

Complete twaddle. The CC will increase traffic congestion, not decrease it. Has Minister Bailey never heard of induced demand?

QuoteQuotes attributable to Senator for Queensland Murray Watt:
"The Second M1 will cut congestion, helping locals to get around faster and with less hassle.

More unsubstantiated garbage.

QuoteQuotes attributable to Member for Gaven Meaghan Scanlon:
"I made an election commitment to build the Second M1 and this massive project will ease congestion for our growing city.

And again. No wonder we can't get any sensible infrastructure built in SEQ, all our politicians are absoultely clueless.

Quote"As our city grows, we need to make sure it keeps moving – whether that's on the road, via rail, light rail or on buses."

Yet 80%+ of funding is going to roads. Clearly, there is no real committment to public transport from the Federal or State Governments.

^ Pretty obvious they subscribe to the theory that if you repeat a falsehood often enough and through important influencers, you can convert a falsehood into a truth.

Quote from: #Metro on November 28, 2023, 07:29:57 AM^ Pretty obvious they subscribe to the theory that if you repeat a falsehood often enough and through important influencers, you can convert a falsehood into a truth.

The true challenge is "They honestly believe it to be the Truth".

Well, I think if this sort of thing is normalised you and everyone around you eventually drift off into a culture of make-believe.

Projects should be evaluated on merit, and all options should be considered in an even handed neutral way according to performance criteria.

You won't get popularity though this approach, but you will get reliability.

Unfortunately Jonno, I think whatever mode shift would be achieved by GC LRT for the Gold Coast will be wiped out and reversed by this road project and others.

^ That I sincerely doubt.  The patronage base, like most public transport systems, is overwhelmingly in the walk-up catchment.  The area served by the Coomera Connector is overwhelmingly not the same market.

My only irritant about the Coomera Connector is that it isn't just another Robina Parkway or Bermuda Street.  There is no need for 3 lanes or grade separation.

^^ Agreed. I do believe that the Coomera Connector is a required road project, and one that fulfils a need that I don't believe could properly be served by a PT project. But it's been inflated into a far heavier project than it needed to be with the whole "Second M1" promotion - it didn't need to be a motorway.

Fortunately the surrounding area has been receiving improved bus services (and will be receiving better rail coverage and services in the coming few years).  I think there is still a third package of funding for Northern Gold Coast bus services still to materialise - one of the missing elements to date has been a Jacobs Well service, and improving the levels of service on some of the remaining lacklustre routes that operate north of the Coomera River (723, 725, 728 and 729).  There will also be a need for additional routes as the area between Coomera and Pimpama fills out.

Government Statement

Coomera Connector Stage 1 North construction reaches one year milestone

27th February 2024

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99796

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Coomera Connector: First look at changes to Southport's Smith Street in next stage of work $

QuoteNew images have revealed how the Coomera Connector will transform Smith Street as construction ramps up on the $2.16bn project.

Community consultation on the central section of the eight-kilometre, six-lane section of the arterial road between Helensvale Road and Smith Street Motorway begins on Monday after the design was revamped.

State Transport Minister Bart Mellish said the plans were altered following consultation in 2020. ... "

Government Statement

Have your say on Coomera Connector Stage 1 Central Design

4th March 2024

> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99837

Couriermail --> Coomera Connector costs blow out by almost $1bn, with Qld govt set to chip in another $400m $

QuoteCosts on the controversial Coomera Connector project have blown out by almost $1bn, with the state government set to chip in at least another $400m.

A major transport project has blown out by almost $1bn, with the state government set to chip in at least another $400m to keep the project on track. ...

What is not sustainable will not be sustained.

We cannot keep having constant cost explosions of ~ 1 bn here and there all the time.

Budgets are there to provide certainty and predictability.

Catherine King MP will not want state counterparts constantly running to her office asking for top up.

We're just going to have to look at different approaches now.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/coomera-connector-costs-blow-out-by-almost-1bn-with-qld-govt-set-to-chip-in-another-400m/news-story/73283b5751b07481c00d5ad31a2f5481

" ... Now expected to cost more than $3bn, Mr Mellish said he was hopeful the federal government would commit to a further $400m to cover the shortfall. ... "

 

Government Statement: Queensland Government funding increase for Coomera Connector Stage 1

26th March 2024

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99975

The Coomera Connector is one of Queensland's most significant transport infrastructure projects that will take thousands of cars off the M1, support jobs, and unlock investment in South East Queensland.

The Queensland Government has committed an additional $432 million to see Coomera Connector Stage 1 . delivered, bringing the State's total contribution to $1.513 billion.

The Queensland Government will also seek additional matched funding from the Australian Government.

More > https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99975

Quote from: ozbob on March 26, 2024, 11:58:10 AMThe Coomera Connector is one of Queensland's most significant transport infrastructure projects that will take thousands of cars off the M1

That seems highly doubtful, one could say an outright lie. It will add traffic to the M1 where it join the Coomera Connector, and they are widening the M1.

https://x.com/JonathanPBryant/status/1772467745721856339?s=20

Let's see:

New/old cost

$3b / 1.5 b => 2x cost explosion factor

Which is very close to the known average of 1.8x for recent QLD Gov projects.

So predictable.

Understate costs to get approval => beg Feds for money

Tale as old as time.

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1772173695479325150?s=20

This whole project is a giant WOFTAM AFAIC. To the extent it "moves cars off the M1" it will simply provide space for more cars to fill the M1. Overall outcome: more car-based traffic.

Stuff this Government and their lack of foresight. I have zero confidence the opposition will do any better, despite their claims—you only have to listen to the whining coming from their counterparts in Canberra about new fuel efficiency standards to understand that the LNP is also wedded to the motor vehicle industry.

As an observation, it seems that whatever the cost blowouts, the Queensland Government will always push on with a new road project, but always cut back/stage a rail infrastructure project, or postpone it indefinitely -- even to the point of never to be built. The sad reality is that everyone who drives a car votes and not everyone who owns a car travels by bus or train. The Queensland Government will always chase the votes and hunt them even harder in marginal electorates. That is the nature of the beast.

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Coomera Connector faces a $864m budget blowout as state admits cost pressures $

QuoteSome of the factors leading to the $864 million blowout in the Coomera Connector would have been known for more than a year, the state opposition says.

The state government on Tuesday confirmed it would seek a $432m matching contribution from the Commonwealth to meet the cost increases on Queensland's biggest road project.

The opposition fears the motorway project, dubbed the second M1, is at risk of not being completed, with the cost factors hidden as the state reacted to community concerns about design and environmental issues.
 ...

Couriermail --> Minister knew of 'cost pressure' before $864m blowout $

QuoteTransport Minister Bart Mellish knew the Coomera Connector faced significant "cost pressures" when he put out a media release three weeks before it was revealed the project price had soared by $864m.

The cost of building the problem-plagued Coomera Connector Stage 1 has blown out from an initial $1.5bn in 2021, to $2.16bn and now more than $3bn.

Mr Mellish last week repeatedly declined to say whether he knew about the latest $864m cost increase when he approved a press release on March 4 about the "$2.16bn Stage 1 project" but on Sunday the minister acknowledged he was aware on March 4 the price of the project – dubbed the "second M1" – was likely to be higher than the original cost.

"I've been aware since coming to this job there's been cost pressures, but what I've done since taking over the job is instigated a process whereby the state will secure our share of that increased funding and now I'm asking for the federal government to contribute to their share," he said. ...

Couriermail --> Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to 'work cooperatively' with states, but refuses to commit $

QuoteDespite visiting Queensland yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has refused to commit to chipping in more cash to save under-pressure transport projects that have blown-out by billions of dollars.

Queensland's blown-out major road and rail projects are under a cloud after the federal government repeatedly refused to commit to chipping in more cash to save the under-pressure plans.

With costs on the Coomera Connector skyrocketing by more than $860m and the estimated price of the Sunshine Coast Rail rising several billion dollars, the Miles Government has been publicly pleading with the federal government to go 50:50 on the increased costs.

But during a visit to Queensland on Tuesday Prime Minister Anthony Albanese refused to commit to funding the major blowouts – and would only say he would "work cooperatively" with the states. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1775208227090960393?s=20

Been expecting this for a while. If it requires Priority A ROW - car/rail/bus it will be impacted.

Quote from: Courier-MailWith costs on the Coomera Connector skyrocketing by more than $860m and the estimated price of the Sunshine Coast Rail rising several billion dollars, the Miles Government has been publicly pleading with the federal government to go 50:50 on the increased costs.

Incentives need to change. Each state should get a risk rating based on past projects and a sliding scale could apply to funding blowouts.

Government Statement

Coomera Connector Stage 1 South early works contract awarded

18th May 2024

JOINT STATEMENT

Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Minister for Housing, Local Government and Planning and Minister for Public Works
The Honourable Meaghan Scanlon

. Construction of the Coomera Connector is about to ratchet up with the early works program set to commence on the southern package in the coming months.

. The Miles Labor Government has awarded the contract for the early works to Winslow Infrastructure Pty Ltd.

More > https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100352

Brisbanetimes --> Feds and Qld share $864 million cost overrun for second M1 project $

QuoteFederal Treasurer Jim Chalmers has tipped in an extra $432 million – matching Queensland's share – as the cost of stage one of the Loganholme to Gold Coast "second M1" project soars by an extra $864 million to $3.02 billion.

"We are committing another $432 million to the really important piece of infrastructure which will be so important to the people of the Gold Coast, Logan and Brisbane," Chalmers said on Saturday.

The Pacific Motorway or M1 – is one of Queensland's busiest roads carrying more than 210,000 vehicles each day.

The Coomera Connector, or second M1, between Coomera and Nerang could transfer 60,000 vehicles a day from the original M1, Queensland government traffic forecasts show.

Stage one of the long-promised second M1 will be completed by the end of 2025. Future stages depend on yet-to-be completed business cases and yet-to-be announced funding. ...

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2024/694-2024.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 694
Asked on 23 May 2024

MR D CRISAFULLI ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND
MINISTER FOR DIGITAL SERVICES (HON B MELLISH)

QUESTION:

With reference to the recently announced $864m cost increase of the Coomera
Connector project—
Will the Minister provide a breakdown of (a) the cost increase (reported separately by
project package (north, central and south)) and (b) the increase (reported separately by cost
input (i.e. land, labour, material costs, environmental offsets, and any other significant input
cost))?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Broadwater for the question.

The Queensland Government is delivering its ninth record transport and roads
infrastructure program in a row, as detailed in the Queensland Transport and Roads
Investment Program 2024–25 to 2027–28, which outlines $37.4 billion in investment over the
next four years and is estimated to support an average of 28,000 direct jobs over the life
of the program. Of this, $5.458 billion is committed across the Department of Transport and
Main Roads' (TMR) South Coast Region, estimated to support an average of 3930 direct jobs
over the life of the program.

Several elements of the cost information requested by the Member are Commercial in-Confidence and unable to be provided.

I am, however, able to inform the Member, following TMR advice, that the additional cost is the
result of a range of factors and that the most significant increase can be attributed to double digit market escalation and inflation, since the business case was approved in 2021. I am
advised this escalation, combined with the realisation of risks—such as contaminated soils—
make up more than 50 per cent of the increase. I trust the Member would understand that
infrastructure projects in Australia and around the world are facing cost pressures and the
Coomera Connector is not immune to a number of external market challenges.
I am advised that new noise barrier requirements, due to emerging development
applications; additional costs realised for the Nerang River Bridge structure; and impacts from
environmental approvals and the conditions set, have also impacted the cost of the project.

The Coomera Connector will deliver a range of benefits such as improved reliability of travel
times, reduced pressure on the M1, improved network efficiency and reduced congestion and
queuing at interchanges.

Government Statement

Major construction tender released as Coomera Connector Stage 1 South works get underway

31st July 2024

> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100979

Government Statement

Big Build in full swing on Second M1

5th September 2024

> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101268

Same day as

City Lab - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-04/costs-of-adding-new-roads-far-exceed-benefits-study-finds

QuoteCityLabTransportation
The Outsized Cost of Expanding US Roads

A new study quantifies the fallacy that adding new roads produces an economic benefit.

The US spends billions each year constructing and repairing roadways. But new research finds that the costs of expanding roads in urban areas are three times greater than its potential benefits.

"The US urban roadway system is overbuilt," the authors write in the Journal of the American Planning Association. "As a result, expanding roadway systems is unlikely to have anything close to the economic benefits that state and federal policymakers hope for."

Highway expansion advocates argue that adding more lanes can improve mobility by relieving traffic jams and reducing travel times. But the researchers found that, even assuming a generous estimate of how much time might be saved by new roads for both cars and freight trucks, the monetary value of that savings did not exceed its cost in urban areas.

"The costs of roadways are extremely high," said Erick Guerra, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Weitzman School of Design and lead author of the study. "We're stuck in this process of building more highways and widening roadways even though the economic justifications aren't there anymore." ...