RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Buses are permitted into Brisbane Airport, they just cannot be subsidised PT.

Evidence Exhibit A

TransLink, Skybus to deliver Brisbane Airport services
https://translink.com.au/news-and-media/releases/30431

Quote7 May 2021 | South East Queensland
A new fast and affordable bus service will operate to and from Brisbane Airport under a new contract between TransLink and airport transit business SkyBus.

From 6am on Monday May 10, SkyBus will run services every two hours from the airport to multiple stops in the Brisbane CBD.

A bus route such as Brisbane Metro or BCC Route 369 could potentially extend into Brisbane Airport provided (a) TMR issued a licence for it and (b) once the bus route was within the precinct, full unsubsidised fare was charged (say $15) just like SkyBus did.

Currently, public trains change status into private services when they enter the Airtrain alignment. This is just taking that concept and applying it to a bus or Brisbane Metro as the case may be.

On the other hand, you have to ask what the purpose is here. If the issue is fares or need for more services, direct subsidy to the rail operator Airtrain would achieve this with minimum fuss.

I feel like I've had this discussion so many times before. Correct buses can go to the airport however if it's a translink funded service it cannot unless authorised by airtrain. BCC and Translink cannot run services there. Skybus is now out of service as it couldn't recoup costs with poor patronage. It operated a different business model to the previous operator and emulated a similar business strategy for other airports that simply did not work here. The translink part of the contract is actually due to tmr merging QConnect and other TMR provided contracts into the translink portfolio. These also include the greyhound translink services that run across the state including Brisbane to Mt Isa via Toowoomba - so yes there is already a translink bus service Brisbane to Toowoomba.

Metro buses and 369 routes are government subsidised. You can't run them there as even if no one is on it is still covered by the state. Due to how translink is established BCC also can not run buses there seperate to translink (outside of charter buses obviously). BCC also legally can not do this.  Both from a legislative side (prevents us creating our own bus network and competing against translink services) and Airtrain contract side.

Airtrain have the monopoly on airport services. Even getting to Skygate has its own problems. But still. What's the obsession with Skygate and high frequency at peak times when the area is at its lowest crowd levels. It's certainly not to catch the high frequency 30 minute terminal shuttle bus that takes 20 minutes to get to the domestic terminal. Because if we know anything about PT people are going to catch a scenic tour bus wrapped in mustard gold plastic to wait at a filthy interchange forever how long and then spend another 20 minutes with bags to get to the terminal all for a slightly cheaper fare to the airport than it was to catch the train or taxi/uber/park there. Airtrain can allow translink buses to run to the airport but they can dictate terms.  BAC will also have some say in regards to charging access to dedicated facilities which only adds to the cost. This is when you start getting into the realm of what's the point. Duplicating another service with a potential higher cost to the state for something with limited patronage. The network doesn't support buses running there. If I lived at carseldine I could catch the train to eagle junction and change to the airport train or catch the 340 + 322 + 369 + terminal shuttle? But there's another or. In a car head east straight to Sandgate road or to the gateway motorway and a few minutes later you are at the airport.

Brisbanetimes --> Airtrain negotiation breakdown to put squeeze on Brisbane Airport $

QuoteBrisbane Airport has warned congestion in and out of the airport will only get worse until Airtrain's monopoly on public transport to the precinct is torn up.

The 8.5-kilometre Brisbane Airport Rail Link operates under a deed between the Queensland government and Airtrain that prevents the state facilitating competing services. ...

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on November 20, 2023, 22:07:50 PMCan I ask what's everyone's obsession with a Skygate glyder.

Not everyone. Just V.

I think most else of us think a SkyGate train station would be cool, but by no means necessary. Maybe if the whole precinct office park was properly built out. And definitely only if BAC/Airtrain pay for it (not the state).

I see no point in running additional buses to SkyGate / the airport

https://x.com/roodave/status/1726718953832210900?s=20

Adding a station at Skygate could allow capacity on the line to increase IF that was needed. The station could act as a passing location.

We are looking at $100 million a pop. Again it sort of highlights this ingrained 'concrete-first' mentality/culture that needs to change.

Ultimately, I think efforts would be better directed at low/no infrastructure options - either lowering the fare or adding new train service rather than just duplicate what the train already achieves with a bus.

There is no need to be duplicating the railway with a gold plated bus which would be better sent to under served areas instead. 

The service on the rail line needs to be 15 minutes or better all day 6 - 10pm - same level as BUZ, with 30 minute frequencies 4 - 6am, 10 - midnight with even maybe an hourly service overnight.  I can't count the amount of times that I've arrived on a flight to find the train has just left and I've got a 30 minute wait - welcome to Brisbane...

The three issues with Airtrain are:

1.  Poor frequency at various times during the day.

2.  Span of operation - needs to start earlier and finish a lot later.

3.  Fares (some fare promotions have been good but majority don't seem to be aware of them).

These things could be addressed now if there was the will.

Agreed with above. I really don't think the airport line needs anything more frequent than 4tph, which is achievable with current infrastructure. If it was a line going elsewhere, then maybe higher frequency would be needed (like in Sydney's case), but a simple 2 station spur line which is purely for Airport traffic? 15min frequency is perfectly fine. Brisbane airport just isn't that busy that it needs more than that, even if the ticket cost was in line with the rest of the network.

The thing is we can't influence those commercial decisions as it's a privately owned company. RBOT would need to write to Airtrain with those suggestions but have been reluctant in the past as its not public transport yet private transport.

Other cities such as Sydney and now Perth have successful public bus operations to and from their airport precincts alongside their train operations.

Hence, a Gold Glider to Skygate via Hamilton would compliment the train service as well as put pressure on Airtrain to maintain competitive fare offerings, as well as extend operating hours.

I reckon no one has emailed Airtran directly with their concerns either. I have suggested via their surveys in the past when using Airtrain that longer operating hours  until 11pm or midnight would be ideal.

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/TRC-645B/C20232024-8423/2023_08_08_EstimatesTRC.pdf

Queensland 2023/2024 portfolio budget estimates

Page 29

Mr BERKMAN: Sure. I will jump on to another topic quickly. Back in May of last year the Brisbane
Times reported that the government was in negotiations with Airtrain regarding the future of its services
to the Brisbane Airport and integration with the network in light of the planned Cross River Rail. I ask
the acting DG: is the department in any ongoing discussions or negotiations with Airtrain around
changes to their monopoly over public transport services to the Brisbane Airport?

Ms Stannard: Airtrain is a private company responsible for rail services, as the member is aware,
to and from the Brisbane Airport on the Brisbane Airport rail link. The elevated railway was constructed
under a deed which commenced in 1998 and when the deed expires, the infrastructure will revert to the
state at nil cost.

As for negotiations that are underway, when planning for the integrated South-East Queensland
rail network, we have of course considered Airtrain. The SEQ Rail Connect document that was released
about this time last year is our published blueprint and describes the new three-sector network post
Cross River Rail. As that documents outlines, we have developed a three-sector configuration and it is
the most efficient and effective way to benefit the largest number of customers on the South-East
Queensland rail network. It does open up new public transport connections and opportunities for many
residents and visitors to South-East Queensland.

After Cross River Rail opens, the Airtrain line will connect to the growing Ipswich line rather than
the Gold Coast line. The network remains fully integrated through new stations which are being
delivered through Cross River Rail. Customers access Airtrain right now from right across South-East
Queensland, and a significant portion of Airtrain customers currently travel from Brisbane city and
surrounding suburbs.

Mr BERKMAN: Chair, I might follow up with a quick question to the minister before this session
is over.

CHAIR: It will have to be really quick. We have about a minute.

Mr BERKMAN: Minister, I am keen to hear from you whether the government is interested in
bringing the Airtrain back into public hands before the expiry of that contract in 2036 when that
monopoly condition would cease to apply.

Mr BAILEY: I am advised that any discussions with Airtrain are subject to strict commercial
confidentiality provisions, so I am not able to make any further comment at this point. What I can say
to the honourable member is that the Queensland government will always consider our available
options based on merit, delivering value for money and enhancing the rail network for the majority of
customers. That is probably all I can give you at this point.

CHAIR: Thank you. With that, the committee will now adjourn for a break. This hearing will
resume at 11.15 am with the examination of the estimates for the transport and main roads and digital
services portfolio areas.

Has anyone taken any notice or ridden the 490 lately? It's quite congested and could do with another service to the precinct. The 490 for some reason is always riddled with delays as well.

We are also coming up to another lacerative Christmas season, hence many people will be visiting the Skygate precinct once again causing very long traffic delays as well as parking issues. It would be nice to try and transition some of those visitors to bus trips instead of car trips. If these people knew that there was a High frequency bus to the area they would likely make that choice of using it, instead of enduring traffic delays and parking issues.

Quote from: #Metro on November 21, 2023, 10:01:18 AMAdding a station at Skygate could allow capacity on the line to increase IF that was needed. The station could act as a passing location.

We are looking at $100 million a pop. Again it sort of highlights this ingrained 'concrete-first' mentality/culture that needs to change.

Ultimately, I think efforts would be better directed at low/no infrastructure options - either lowering the fare or adding new train service rather than just duplicate what the train already achieves with a bus.

Quote from: joninbrisbane on November 21, 2023, 10:06:42 AMThere is no need to be duplicating the railway with a gold plated bus which would be better sent to under served areas instead. 

The service on the rail line needs to be 15 minutes or better all day 6 - 10pm - same level as BUZ, with 30 minute frequencies 4 - 6am, 10 - midnight with even maybe an hourly service overnight.  I can't count the amount of times that I've arrived on a flight to find the train has just left and I've got a 30 minute wait - welcome to Brisbane...

Have you guys contributed to the community consultation in the past regarding the Airport masterplan and a new station at Skygate? Plus have you written or completed the surveys from Airtrain when booking tickets directly from their site, requesting improved operating times and better frequency.

Just another question are members now wanting RBOT to put pressure on private transport companies directly for potential improvements?

The reality is if Airtrain was not built in the 90's, we would likely not have rail to the airport as per Melbourne Airport.

It's a crap deal, but also a deal that has given us something we would not otherwise have.

Surely a deal to subsidies fairs and increase frequencies should be doable!!

Quote from: Jonno on November 21, 2023, 17:00:30 PMSurely a deal to subsidies fairs and increase frequencies should be doable!!

That's not going to happen is it.

I wonder what service levels or guarantees or contractual obligation are in the contract for QLD Rail to provide the trains on the route! Start running the oldest most unreliable EMUs on it or just a shuttle to EJ and force  passengers to change!

There are none. Every train runs on it. During a shut down a while back EMUs were the only rollingstock on it between Albion and the airport. In regards to the service contract it's to Roma Street but the ticketing covers Zone one and they promote Southbank/south brisbane as it goes past it. They are financially compensated for adding woolloowin and Albion onto its stopping pattern along with cancelling services.

I am not happy with the situation with the Airtrain negotiations by TMR.

I am thinking of putting in a RTI request to seek information of the actual dates of the negotiations.  The substance of the negotiations they will no doubt hide behind the ' commercial in confidence ' cloak if there are any.  I will first try administratively to see if they will provide the ' negotiation timeline ' before I spend my moolah on a formal application.

This would be a great ' Question on Notice ' in the Queensland Parliament Mr Berkman.

Attention >      

Part of Couriermail Editorial 30th November 2023

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-top-five-priorities-for-our-future-brisbane/news-story/b1606214ac0150e880b2c3402b67c336

Quote... The monopoly that Airtrain has on mass-transit to the Brisbane Airport is an outdated decision that must be changed. The revelation last Monday that Transport Minister Mark Bailey has given up on negotiating an outcome with Airtrain was a shock to all involved.

The idea that the only mass public transport to our Olympic city's airport will be a train that can only ever operate a service every 15 minutes is a massive problem – and it is one that deserves more from the relevant state minister.

The monopoly deal until 2036 was done in 1998 by the Borbidge government. It probably made sense at the time as the only way to get the $200m investment to stack up. But it is clearly now outdated and must be vigorously negotiated.

We of course understand that from Airtrain Citylink's perspective; they have won the lottery, having now a monopoly on an Olympic city's airport. But buses will have to be part of the mix in 2032. ...

Couriermail --> Brisbane's Airtrain pushing up commute costs for airport workers to $100 a week $

QuoteThe union of Queensland Labor's top powerbroker has called on the state government to re-evaluate its Airtrain contract, saying Brisbane Airport workers are paying up to $100 a week to commute due to limited transport options.

It comes after The Courier-Mail recently revealed the long-term contract would not be renegotiated for the 2032 Olympics, making the Airtrain the only mass-transit option during the Games.

The United Workers' Union, headed by Gary Bullock, said thousands of its members working in the sprawling airport precinct were already being unfairly squeezed on transport costs daily because of lack of transport options. ...

Quote from: ozbob on November 22, 2023, 01:03:30 AMI am not happy with the situation with the Airtrain negotiations by TMR.

I am thinking of putting in a RTI request to seek information of the actual dates of the negotiations.  The substance of the negotiations they will no doubt hide behind the ' commercial in confidence ' cloak if there are any.  I will first try administratively to see if they will provide the ' negotiation timeline ' before I spend my moolah on a formal application.

This would be a great ' Question on Notice ' in the Queensland Parliament Mr Berkman.

Attention >      

On behalf of RAIL Back On Track I put in an administrative request to RTI TMR for the dates of meetings between Brisbane Airtrain and TMR/Translink

QuoteRAIL Back On Track is interested in making a RTI application to seek the negotiation time-line between TMR and Brisbane Airtrain re early contract termination.

It has been reported in the Brisbane media a number of times that there have been negotiations between Brisbane Airtrain and TMR concerning the possible early termination of the Airtrain contract.

We like to know the dates that these negotiations have occurred over the past 3 years. We understand and expect that the substance of the these negotiations would be " Commercial In Confidence ", but we believe the dates of these negotiations should be publicly available.

Before I submit a formal RTI application on behalf of RAIL Back On Track, I would like ask if this request can be handled administratively please?

The response to this request was that the requested information is unable to be provided to you administratively.  It was suggested that if we wish to pursue the matter to put in a formal RTI application.

You would think a simple request of meeting dates would be easy to respond to.

No, not in the land of murky transparency and bullsh%t that is Queensland politics.

Makes one wonder if meetings have actually taken place hey        ? 

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1730290024158261626?s=20

Sent to all outlets:

Call for the Minister for Transport to confirm that negotiations with Brisbane Airtrain re contract variation have occurred

2nd December 2023

Good Morning,

It is with some concern I write to you this morning.  There have been suggestions by the Minister for Transport and reported in the media that there have been negotiations with Brisbane Airtrain about contract variation of their service. Sources have suggested that there have been no negotiations and a façade of falsehood is being presented.

To attempt to verify whether or not negotiations have taken place, RAIL Back On Track made an administrative inquiry to RTI DTMR recently to see if we could obtain the following information:

" We like to know the dates that these negotiations (re contract variation) have occurred over the past 3 years. We understand and expect that the substance of the these negotiations would be ' Commercial In Confidence ', but we believe the dates of these negotiations should be publicly available. "

The response from RTI DTMR was that the requested information is unable to be provided to us administratively.  If you wish to seek further information then proceed with a RTI application.  This costs money and is unlikely to succeed because of the cloak of commercial-in-confidence and the lack of transparency generally with the Queensland Government.

We now call on the Minister for Transport to directly and publicly confirm that negotiations have actually occurred and the date of those negotiations.  There is absolutely no reason why these dates should not be made public (assuming negotiations have actually occurred).

A null response will confirm that there have been no negotiations and we all are being mislead.

The ball is in your court Minister!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

====

Examination of the estimates for the transport and main roads and digital
services portfolio areas

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/TRC-645B/C20232024-8423/2023_08_08_EstimatesTRC.pdf

Queensland 2023/2024 portfolio budget estimates

Page 29

Mr BERKMAN: Minister, I am keen to hear from you whether the government is interested in
bringing the Airtrain back into public hands before the expiry of that contract in 2036 when that
monopoly condition would cease to apply.

Mr BAILEY: I am advised that any discussions with Airtrain are subject to strict commercial
confidentiality provisions, so I am not able to make any further comment at this point. What I can say
to the honourable member is that the Queensland government will always consider our available
options based on merit, delivering value for money and enhancing the rail network for the majority of
customers. That is probably all I can give you at this point.

====

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/future-seq/future-brisbane-airtrain-the-only-airport-mass-transit-for-2032-games/news-story/909d01e8fc4879250af86c5d1e5046ee  20th November 2023

Transport Minister Mark Bailey has confirmed negotiations to potentially cut short the 35-year contract – which prohibits public buses being run to either the domestic or international terminal – have broken down.

It also poses a problem for Brisbane Airport as it gets ready to expand its workforce from 20,000 to 30,000 employees in time for the Games.

"TMR (Transport and Main Roads) and the owners of Airtrain CityLink are no longer in discussions about incorporating airport services into the Translink network," Mr Bailey said.

"These discussions were commercial in nature and no further comment can be provided."

====

Part of Couriermail Editorial 30th November 2023

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-top-five-priorities-for-our-future-brisbane/news-story/b1606214ac0150e880b2c3402b67c336

... The monopoly that Airtrain has on mass-transit to the Brisbane Airport is an outdated decision that must be changed. The revelation last Monday that Transport Minister Mark Bailey has given up on negotiating an outcome with Airtrain was a shock to all involved. ...

====

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/kylie-lang/kylie-lang-it-beggars-belief-that-bailey-continues-to-survive/news-story/d66a501b629ee8ae84a92fdee969ddb0 2nd December 2023

" ... Just last week I called out Bailey's ongoing ineptitude – in particular his failure to negotiate with the UK owners of Airtrain, to the detriment of anyone travelling to and from the Brisbane airport on public transport. ... "

====

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1730713097466458481?s=20

^ simple request, if meetings have actually occurred   

Sent to all outlets:

Re: Call for the Minister for Transport to confirm that negotiations with Brisbane Airtrain re contract variation have occurred

8th December 2023

Good Day,

No response.  Looks like a RTI application will be necessary next week.

Queensland is not a transparent jurisdiction.  I will stump up the application fee out of my  service pension, because I believe truth in public policy is important.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on December 02, 2023, 04:47:01 AMSent to all outlets:

Call for the Minister for Transport to confirm that negotiations with Brisbane Airtrain re contract variation have occurred

2nd December 2023

Good Morning,

It is with some concern I write to you this morning.  There have been suggestions by the Minister for Transport and reported in the media that there have been negotiations with Brisbane Airtrain about contract variation of their service. Sources have suggested that there have been no negotiations and a façade of falsehood is being presented.

To attempt to verify whether or not negotiations have taken place, RAIL Back On Track made an administrative inquiry to RTI DTMR recently to see if we could obtain the following information:

" We like to know the dates that these negotiations (re contract variation) have occurred over the past 3 years. We understand and expect that the substance of the these negotiations would be ' Commercial In Confidence ', but we believe the dates of these negotiations should be publicly available. "

The response from RTI DTMR was that the requested information is unable to be provided to us administratively.  If you wish to seek further information then proceed with a RTI application.  This costs money and is unlikely to succeed because of the cloak of commercial-in-confidence and the lack of transparency generally with the Queensland Government.

We now call on the Minister for Transport to directly and publicly confirm that negotiations have actually occurred and the date of those negotiations.  There is absolutely no reason why these dates should not be made public (assuming negotiations have actually occurred).

A null response will confirm that there have been no negotiations and we all are being mislead.

The ball is in your court Minister!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

====

Examination of the estimates for the transport and main roads and digital
services portfolio areas

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/com/TRC-645B/C20232024-8423/2023_08_08_EstimatesTRC.pdf

Queensland 2023/2024 portfolio budget estimates

Page 29

Mr BERKMAN: Minister, I am keen to hear from you whether the government is interested in
bringing the Airtrain back into public hands before the expiry of that contract in 2036 when that
monopoly condition would cease to apply.

Mr BAILEY: I am advised that any discussions with Airtrain are subject to strict commercial
confidentiality provisions, so I am not able to make any further comment at this point. What I can say
to the honourable member is that the Queensland government will always consider our available
options based on merit, delivering value for money and enhancing the rail network for the majority of
customers. That is probably all I can give you at this point.

====

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/future-seq/future-brisbane-airtrain-the-only-airport-mass-transit-for-2032-games/news-story/909d01e8fc4879250af86c5d1e5046ee  20th November 2023

Transport Minister Mark Bailey has confirmed negotiations to potentially cut short the 35-year contract – which prohibits public buses being run to either the domestic or international terminal – have broken down.

It also poses a problem for Brisbane Airport as it gets ready to expand its workforce from 20,000 to 30,000 employees in time for the Games.

"TMR (Transport and Main Roads) and the owners of Airtrain CityLink are no longer in discussions about incorporating airport services into the Translink network," Mr Bailey said.

"These discussions were commercial in nature and no further comment can be provided."

====

Part of Couriermail Editorial 30th November 2023

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-top-five-priorities-for-our-future-brisbane/news-story/b1606214ac0150e880b2c3402b67c336

... The monopoly that Airtrain has on mass-transit to the Brisbane Airport is an outdated decision that must be changed. The revelation last Monday that Transport Minister Mark Bailey has given up on negotiating an outcome with Airtrain was a shock to all involved. ...

====

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/kylie-lang/kylie-lang-it-beggars-belief-that-bailey-continues-to-survive/news-story/d66a501b629ee8ae84a92fdee969ddb0 2nd December 2023

" ... Just last week I called out Bailey's ongoing ineptitude – in particular his failure to negotiate with the UK owners of Airtrain, to the detriment of anyone travelling to and from the Brisbane airport on public transport. ... "

====

Finding a cure for brain cancer: A cause close to Airtrain's heart

https://www.airtrain.com.au/brain-cancer-research/

Airtrain has partnered with QIMR Berghofer Medical Research Institute to promote their incredible work and raise much needed funds for medical research.

Read more > https://www.airtrain.com.au/brain-cancer-research/

Couriermail --> Federal Government pushes to overhaul Brisbane Airport public transport options $

QuoteThe Federal Government is calling for a significant overhaul of public transport options to and from Brisbane Airport after talks to break with 35-year contract with Airtrain broke down.

Australia's transport minister has called for a significant overhaul of public transport options to and from Brisbane Airport, in a landmark intervention over Queensland being hamstrung by an exclusive deal with Airtrain.

It has prompted the Premier to call on his newly-minted Transport Minister to take another look at public transport options to the Airport "as a priority" after negotiations with Airtrain to potentially cut short the 35-year contract broke down. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1746159976828313988?s=20

Yep. They see the value of the contract is a gold mine for the Olympics with the exclusivity clause. It's not as simple as Metro has previously made it out to be or comparable to other cases ie Sydney. A lot of the public think Airtrain is owned by the Airport/locally. Its not. It's owned by a UK superannuation fund. The other problem with the airport is that all these new jobs aren't directly terminal based  and 24 hour operations making Airtrain somewhat pointless. That's all good if you live next to the line but the majority of the people that work there would still drive even if PT was at Translink fares. Especially those that work on split shifts.

Without a massive cash payment Airtrain knows the government won't break the contract as it opens them to significant legal action and compensation - even more than just entering into a confidentiality agreement. And they know if they want to run extra buses and trains they have to pay them substantially for the privilege which will be hidden via confidentiality agreements. Airport can't run buses outside federal land as it then comes into play with the state bringing it under translink which then raises contract issues. Airtrain really has the golden ticket. It's up to the state to really make it worth their wild to give it up and they won't for cents on the dollar. As you said they did built it after all.

A few kilometres west of the Airport, the Queensland Investment Corporation is investing in a (hopefully public) transport solution. Isn't it possible that part of that pie is put in front of Airtrain?

Run the proposed Woolloongabba to Hamilton Gold Glider to Skygate to allow people to connect and catch the terminal shuttle from there. The terminal shuttle operating times should also be extended from 6 pm to 10 pm or later depending on demand? TMR / Translink should also contract BAC to extend the terminal shuttle to the International cruise terminal running every 20 mins on cruise days.

The solution above would be far cheaper than forking out the money to alter the contract with the Airtrain owners.

As @Ozbob has suggested in the past, they could renegotiate the charges between QR and Air train. This could allow for later and earlier services, better frequency off peak, as well as better fare options. But we still need a bus service to run down Qantas Drive, with onward connections or direct service to the city preferably 24 / 7 or from 4 am to midnight.

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 14, 2024, 10:37:40 AMRun the proposed Woolloongabba to Hamilton Gold Glider to Skygate to allow people to connect and catch the terminal shuttle from there. The terminal shuttle operating times should also be extended from 6 pm to 10 pm or later depending on demand? TMR / Translink should also contract BAC to extend the terminal shuttle to the International cruise terminal running every 20 mins on cruise days.

Bus services to Brisbane Airport are allowed. They need to get a permission from TMR to do so, and they must be run on a commercial basis.

For example, Skybus in 2021 did just that:

TransLink, Skybus to deliver Brisbane Airport services
https://translink.com.au/news-and-media/releases/30431

Quotenew fast and affordable bus service will operate to and from Brisbane Airport under a new contract between TransLink and airport transit business SkyBus.

From 6am on Monday May 10, SkyBus will run services every two hours from the airport to multiple stops in the Brisbane CBD.

The SkyBus Brisbane City Express service will replace services previously provided by Conn-x-ion, with buses initially running every two hours between 6am and midnight on weekdays and from 6am to 8pm on weekends.

Airtrain could operate a commercial bus service to supplement its timetable, for example, to continue service to the Brisbane CBD after the last train has departed.

The only way I can see a subsidised TransLink bus entering the Brisbane Airport Zone, other than buying out Airtrain, is for Airtrain to run such a bus service itself (contracting, say Brisbane City Council) and TransLink perhaps paying Airtrain to do this. The onboard Translink fare equipment could be used to collect the fare, just like how Airtrain integrates with the GoCard currently. Permission will need to be given to use the Northern and Inner Northern busways for the bus.

A pure Gold CityGlider to BNE will not work because if Airtrain is not itself running it, it is almost a certainty that BCC will not get permission for the glider to be routed into the precinct.

It will be a little tedious, but IMO there are reasonable solutions to this problem that will work for everyone involved, as outlined above.

Skygate is outside the Air train contractual zone. So Translink can run as many buses as they like to and from Skygate.

Likewise with BAC, they can run as many buses as they like around the airport precinct as well as to and from Skygate without being in breach of the Airtrain contract.

QuoteSkygate is outside the Air train contractual zone. So Translink can run as many buses as they like to and from Skygate.

Likewise with BAC, they can run as many buses as they like around the airport precinct as well as to and from Skygate without being in breach of the Airtrain contract.

Is this still the case though? Are buses still running to Skygate? I have used this option in the past but IMO I think it is not happening anymore. In any case, it does not deal with the late night service deficit.

Also, it is not something that works for all parties involved. We should prefer a solution that works for all parties in the room, rather than say cut out Airtrain with this free bus workaround.

 

Yes, it is still the case and also published on the Translink website on how to do so.

Quote from: #Metro on January 14, 2024, 10:58:21 AM

QuoteSkygate is outside the Air train contractual zone. So Translink can run as many buses as they like to and from Skygate.

Likewise with BAC, they can run as many buses as they like around the airport precinct as well as to and from Skygate without being in breach of the Airtrain contract.

it does not deal with the late night service deficit.

As @Ozbob has suggested in the past, they could renegotiate the charges between QR and Air train. This could allow for later and earlier services, better frequency off peak, as well as better fare options. But we still need a bus service to run down Qantas Drive, with onward connections or direct service to the city preferably 24 / 7 or from 4 am to midnight, as an alternative for workers, visitors and passengers alike.