RAIL - Back On Track Forum

$7 billion / 65 trains = 107.69 million per train (not sure if this for 6-car or 3-car).

Source: https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97099

Quote from: #Metro on February 06, 2023, 13:01:50 PM$7 billion / 65 trains = 107.69 million per train (not sure if this for 6-car or 3-car).

Source: https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97099

Need to wait for $ break up.  There are plants etc.

65 x six car trains.

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97120

Downer named as preferred supplier to deliver $7 billion train program

6th February 2023

JOINT STATEMENT

Premier and Minister for the Olympic and Paralympic Games
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Assistant Minister for Train Manufacturing and Regional Roads
Mr Bruce Saunders

Hundreds of jobs for manufacturing workers in the Maryborough region are a step closer.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk today announced Downer was the preferred supplier to build and deliver 65 next generation trains as part of the Queensland Train Manufacturing Program.

"At the 2020 election I committed to building 20 new trains in Maryborough," the Premier said.

"Our planning has indicated there is a need for another 45 trains.

"That means 800 good, secure jobs here in Maryborough to deliver 65 trains.

"Supporting jobs in traditional industries like manufacturing is important, especially in regional centres like Maryborough.

"This will be a game changer that secures the future of manufacturing for Maryborough.

"Downer has a strong track record of delivering here in Australia, and around the world, so Queensland's future fleet is in good hands.

"By 2032, we'll have a Queensland-built fleet of trains that we can proudly call our own."

Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment Cameron Dick said the decision highlighted the manufacturing capability of regional Queensland.

"The pandemic reminded us just how important it is for our state to be able to stand on its own two feet when global supply chains are affected by external events," the Treasurer said.

"Building these trains here will utilise the existing skills base that was first established in Maryborough when Walkers opened in 1867.

"But it will also sustain a new generation of workers with the highly specialised skills needed for an operation like this."

Downer was one of three shortlisted applicants – selected after a robust procurement.

The trains will be built at a state owned facility, set to be constructed 25 kilometres north of Maryborough at Torbanlea. Construction of this facility will begin later this year.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the program would also deliver ongoing new rail maintenance jobs at facilities in South-East Queensland.

"The proposal put forward by Downer offered strong value for money, leading-edge accessibility and a modern design, whilst delivering maximum benefit to the region and to our great state" Mr Bailey said.

"What we want is a superior level of service for commuters and tourists alike as we respond to population growth, the Olympic and Paralympic Games and beyond.

"The Palaszczuk Government will now work closely with Downer to undertake detailed design on the trains to ensure they are customer-focussed and fully accessible for passengers.

"We've also listened to Queensland Rail customers and the trains will have bike racks and USB mobile phone charging stations to make travelling a breeze for commuters."

Assistant Minster for Train Manufacturing and Regional Roads, Member for Maryborough Bruce Saunders welcomed the announcement.   

"Only a strong Labor government delivers for our community," Mr Saunders said.

"Thanks to the $7.1 billion commitment made by the Premier, we'll see 800 construction and manufacturing jobs supported here in Maryborough over ten years.

"That's 800 jobs, supporting families, keeping skills in the region and supporting the overall economy.

"This is big news for Queensland, for Maryborough and for commuters far and wide."

Member for Hervey Bay Adrian Tantari said the Palaszczuk Government placed such a strong emphasis on benefits for the Fraser Coast community.

"We want the next generation to play a key role in the construction of the 65 new six-car trains," Mr Tantari said.

"Through this program, we're partnering with the Department of Education to provide young people in the region with a pathway into a skilled job opportunity in our own back yard.

"We're not just backing Queensland made trains, we're investing in skills, training and pathways into the industry."

Regional Development and Manufacturing Minister Glenn Butcher said Queensland manufacturers are some of the best in the world.

"It's fantastic to be part of the Palaszczuk Labor Government that's bringing train manufacturing back to local workshops," Minister Butcher said.

"If we can make it here in Queensland, then there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be.

"We're now right on track to creating more good jobs and boosting services."

Fast Facts: 

. Downer will build 65 new six-car trains and associated infrastructure, in Queensland, by Queenslanders, for Queenslanders.
. 800 jobs supported in the region
. Delivered as part of the $7.1 billion Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program.
. The trains will begin rolling out onto the South East Queensland rail network from 2026.
.The Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program will create up to 3000 jobs in construction and manufacturing across Queensland.

The Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program includes:

. construction of 65 six-car passenger trains
. construction of a purpose-built manufacturing facility in the Maryborough region for major manufacturing/assembly works for the new fleet
. construction of a new rail facility (for train maintenance and stabling) in Ormeau
. the ongoing operation and maintenance of the fleet and rail facility.

For more information or to sign up for email updates head online to the QTMP website.

ENDS

QTMP Website > https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/queensland-train-manufacturing-program-qtmp

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1622434178490040321

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Ok, I think I understand what has happened. 

Downer already have a factory at Maryborough. But this causes a problem because it would be unfair to open a tender when only 1 rail manufacturer exists in Queensland and then make it a condition that the supplier had to be from Queensland.

Downer's private facility is located at 23 Bowen Street, Maryborough.

To get around this problem, the Queensland Government has or will build its own public train factory at Ritchie Road Torbanlea, a separate facility. That way any of the three tenderers could occupy it.

So there are now two train manufacturing sites at Maryborough.

So the Queensland Government is paying for both the trains and the construction of the (public) factory. I assume they will lease it back to the successful tenderer at a commercial lease rate.

Do we know what these new trains will look like?

It might be worthwhile catching the Tilt to Howard, staying overnight at the Miners Arms cabin accommodation and inspecting the train manufacturing facility taking shape across the road.

https://www.minersarmshotel.com

Quote from: ozbob on February 06, 2023, 13:07:10 PMhttps://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97120

Downer named as preferred supplier to deliver $7 billion train program

6th February 2023

JOINT STATEMENT

Premier and Minister for the Olympic and Paralympic Games
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Assistant Minister for Train Manufacturing and Regional Roads
Mr Bruce Saunders

Hundreds of jobs for manufacturing workers in the Maryborough region are a step closer.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk today announced Downer was the preferred supplier to build and deliver 65 next generation trains as part of the Queensland Train Manufacturing Program.

"At the 2020 election I committed to building 20 new trains in Maryborough," the Premier said.

"Our planning has indicated there is a need for another 45 trains.

"That means 800 good, secure jobs here in Maryborough to deliver 65 trains.

"Supporting jobs in traditional industries like manufacturing is important, especially in regional centres like Maryborough.

"This will be a game changer that secures the future of manufacturing for Maryborough.

"Downer has a strong track record of delivering here in Australia, and around the world, so Queensland's future fleet is in good hands.

"By 2032, we'll have a Queensland-built fleet of trains that we can proudly call our own."

Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment Cameron Dick said the decision highlighted the manufacturing capability of regional Queensland.

"The pandemic reminded us just how important it is for our state to be able to stand on its own two feet when global supply chains are affected by external events," the Treasurer said.

"Building these trains here will utilise the existing skills base that was first established in Maryborough when Walkers opened in 1867.

"But it will also sustain a new generation of workers with the highly specialised skills needed for an operation like this."

Downer was one of three shortlisted applicants – selected after a robust procurement.

The trains will be built at a state owned facility, set to be constructed 25 kilometres north of Maryborough at Torbanlea. Construction of this facility will begin later this year.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the program would also deliver ongoing new rail maintenance jobs at facilities in South-East Queensland.

"The proposal put forward by Downer offered strong value for money, leading-edge accessibility and a modern design, whilst delivering maximum benefit to the region and to our great state" Mr Bailey said.

"What we want is a superior level of service for commuters and tourists alike as we respond to population growth, the Olympic and Paralympic Games and beyond.

"The Palaszczuk Government will now work closely with Downer to undertake detailed design on the trains to ensure they are customer-focussed and fully accessible for passengers.

"We've also listened to Queensland Rail customers and the trains will have bike racks and USB mobile phone charging stations to make travelling a breeze for commuters."

Assistant Minster for Train Manufacturing and Regional Roads, Member for Maryborough Bruce Saunders welcomed the announcement.   

"Only a strong Labor government delivers for our community," Mr Saunders said.

"Thanks to the $7.1 billion commitment made by the Premier, we'll see 800 construction and manufacturing jobs supported here in Maryborough over ten years.

"That's 800 jobs, supporting families, keeping skills in the region and supporting the overall economy.

"This is big news for Queensland, for Maryborough and for commuters far and wide."

Member for Hervey Bay Adrian Tantari said the Palaszczuk Government placed such a strong emphasis on benefits for the Fraser Coast community.

"We want the next generation to play a key role in the construction of the 65 new six-car trains," Mr Tantari said.

"Through this program, we're partnering with the Department of Education to provide young people in the region with a pathway into a skilled job opportunity in our own back yard.

"We're not just backing Queensland made trains, we're investing in skills, training and pathways into the industry."

Regional Development and Manufacturing Minister Glenn Butcher said Queensland manufacturers are some of the best in the world.

"It's fantastic to be part of the Palaszczuk Labor Government that's bringing train manufacturing back to local workshops," Minister Butcher said.

"If we can make it here in Queensland, then there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be.

"We're now right on track to creating more good jobs and boosting services."

Fast Facts: 

. Downer will build 65 new six-car trains and associated infrastructure, in Queensland, by Queenslanders, for Queenslanders.
. 800 jobs supported in the region
. Delivered as part of the $7.1 billion Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program.
. The trains will begin rolling out onto the South East Queensland rail network from 2026.
.The Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program will create up to 3000 jobs in construction and manufacturing across Queensland.

The Queensland made Train Manufacturing Program includes:

. construction of 65 six-car passenger trains
. construction of a purpose-built manufacturing facility in the Maryborough region for major manufacturing/assembly works for the new fleet
. construction of a new rail facility (for train maintenance and stabling) in Ormeau
. the ongoing operation and maintenance of the fleet and rail facility.

For more information or to sign up for email updates head online to the QTMP website.

ENDS

QTMP Website > https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/queensland-train-manufacturing-program-qtmp

To run the frequencies we have campaigned for (outlined below) how many train sets do we calculate are needed. Is 65 enough?

- 10-15 minute (or less) frequencies on all rail and BRT lines/stations from 6am to 9pm 7 days a week including the Airport Line
- 20-30 minute (or less) frequencies on all rail and BRT lines/stations outside of 6am to 9pm 7 days a week

What about intercity and regional trains so we match NSW?

QuoteTo run the frequencies we have campaigned for (outlined below) how many train sets do we calculate are needed. Is 65 enough?

The train requirement would be set by the volume of trains required during peak.

During off-peak, fewer trains are in service as frequencies drop. I would imagine many units go into stabling during the off-peak.

So no need for additional trains if the total number of trains in service during peak is taken care of IMHO.

Quote from: #Metro on February 06, 2023, 16:29:15 PMOk, I think I understand what has happened. 

Downer already have a factory at Maryborough. But this causes a problem because it would be unfair to open a tender when only 1 rail manufacturer exists in Queensland and then make it a condition that the supplier had to be from Queensland.

Downer's private facility is located at 23 Bowen Street, Maryborough.

From what I understand, Downer's Maryborough facility is at or near capacity building, rebuilding and/or refurbishing locomotives for freight operators.

It's a tiny facility. Very problematic with getting rollingstock there. Problematic stabling rollingstock there. Difficult to work on rollingstock there. Lots of local shuts and closing the main road through town to do so. NGRs have to be split before transferred because they are too long. They physically can't do a manufacturing contract and refurb contract let alone the ngr disability contract. Work in the past has been held off or palmed off elsewhere such as Ipswich workshops due to downer not being able to do the work due to capacity or work schedules.

The facility is state owned but it's similar to the ngr contract

Great news.
Will the #SunshineCoast ever get the nine trains promised to us by then Deputy Premier Jackie Trad MP at Woombye Bowls Club on 11 May 2015 ?

All those trains heading to the Gold Coast (paired with the Sunshine Coast post CRR)possibly could head north, or reasons could be found to send them to stable at Mayne. The issue is will they have sufficient crews for the new trains and timetable?

RBoT advocated for years for more trains.  We worked out we needed at least 50 six car trains with a contingency of around 5 so if you recall.

Couriermail: Cross River Rail needs 50 more trains in order to function as planned, insider says 22 June 2018

QuoteCROSS River Rail cannot deliver the promised improvements to Brisbane's public transport system unless the State Government immediately orders another 50 new trains. ...

... Transport advocate Robert Dow has warned the Palaszczuk Government is all about spruiking about its new rail system but not backing it up with more trains ...

... He said even with 75 New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) trains coming online and the retention of several classes of passenger cars it was still not enough to reach the level of service the Labor Government had spruiked.

"They want to service the lines with 15-minute frequencies but we have worked out you need another 42 trains, more like 50 in round figures, because no train runs 100 per cent of the time," Mr Dow said.

"It would take six years for that number of trains to be built and unless they order them today they can't deliver that service.

"The Government is all focussed on Cross River Rail but you need to put the rest of the network into position to maximise its benefit."

It's estimated the network is at least a dozen six-car trains short of providing adequate extra services on the existing network and a further 29 are required to meet the CRR projections. ...

Initially the authorities said they would commit to 20 with a further contingency of 45.  This transformed into 65 six car trains.

This is good news, and as HTG as explained the new facility (facilities) needed.  Downer has been building trains and locomotives for 100 years plus. I recently did some research on 20 Victorian Railways DD steam locomotives (5' 3" gauge) they built early 1900s.  I was intrigued as to how the locos made it Victoria. I verified they assembled and tested the locos at Maryborough and then disassembled and they were then transported to the Port of Melbourne by ship. Reassembled and then back on the rails! 

https://www.downergroup.com/rail very capable.

Damn good news this.  Taken a while, but at least we have 65 new six car sets on the way.  They are late, but better late than never.

I believe it is very important to have our local manufacturing base for a lot of strategic reasons.

Quote from: Stillwater on February 06, 2023, 17:16:55 PMIt might be worthwhile catching the Tilt to Howard, staying overnight at the Miners Arms cabin accommodation and inspecting the train manufacturing facility taking shape across the road.

https://www.minersarmshotel.com

    

Couriermail --> New Cross River Rail trains year too late for 2025 opening date $

QuoteThe first of dozens of "Cross River Rail trains" set to be manufactured in Maryborough will begin rolling off the assembly line in 2026 – a year after the major rail project is due to open.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, in Maryborough on Monday for a regional meeting of cabinet, announced Downer had been selected as the "preferred supplier" of a $7.1bn train manufacturing project.

It includes the manufacturing of 65 six-car trains at a state-owned facility in Torbanlea that will need to be built, with the program supporting 800 jobs in the region.

But the government, which once said the new trains were "needed to support" an increase in services for Cross River Rail, is adamant the trains won't prevent the new line from starting or ramping up. ...

Quote from: kram0 on February 06, 2023, 16:37:50 PMDo we know what these new trains will look like?

No we don't.  But they will be similar in form (position of doors, carriage length) to the NGRs. 
Have to be for the platform screen doors (PSDs). Cabs, internal fitout and layout could be very different though, and I expect it will be.

See later in this thread for a concept image.

https://twitter.com/AnnastaciaMP/status/1622492208615276544

Sent to all outlets:

Queensland Train Manufacturing Program - Downer to deliver the program

7th February 2023

Greetings,

RAIL Back On Track welcomes the announcement that Downer (Maryborough) is the preferred supplier to build and deliver 65 new six car trains for the Queensland Train Manufacturing Program (QTMP) (1, 2).

Downer is an experienced local manufacturer that has delivered quality trains and locomotives for a long time, and will continue to do so in our view (3, 4).

RAIL Back On Track has been advocating for more trains since the announcement of the NGR program many years ago! We are delighted that there will be another 65 six car trains to added to the train fleet.  They will be needed as rail transport ramps in SEQ when Cross River Rail is commissioned and the network is expanded.  We trust the lessons learned from the problems with the NGR program have been well noted and this time a better, more timely result is achieved.

Congratulations to Downer on their success as the preferred applicant for the QTMP.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Downer named as preferred supplier to deliver $7 billion train program
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97120

2. Queensland Train Manufacturing Program 
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/programs/queensland-train-manufacturing-program

3. Downer Maryborough
https://www.downergroup.com/maryborough

4. Downer named preferred applicant for Queensland Train Manufacturing Program
https://www.downergroup.com/downer-named-preferred-applicant-for-queensla

Image from https://www.downergroup.com/downer-named-preferred-applicant-for-queensla

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1622700799867641856

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Hopefully the final concept is better looking.

They will have the chunky fronts due to aus crash standards.

ABC News --> Downer frontrunner to produce Queensland's next generation trains from Torbanlea site

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on February 07, 2023, 10:20:51 AMThey will have the chunky fronts due to aus crash standards.

How did WA avoid that requirement?

Hopefully there will be a lot of consultation about the interiors -- accessible toilets, bike racks, wheelchair access, luggage storage, wi-fi, etc and maybe an onboard coffee shop concession for the longer runs to Toowoomba and Coolangatta etc. 

Quote from: nathandavid88 on February 07, 2023, 11:34:38 AM

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on February 07, 2023, 10:20:51 AMThey will have the chunky fronts due to aus crash standards.

How did WA avoid that requirement?

Sacrificed internal capacity by the looks of it.

Quote from: #Metro on February 06, 2023, 18:05:53 PM

QuoteTo run the frequencies we have campaigned for (outlined below) how many train sets do we calculate are needed. Is 65 enough?

The train requirement would be set by the volume of trains required during peak.

During off-peak, fewer trains are in service as frequencies drop. I would imagine many units go into stabling during the off-peak.

So no need for additional trains if the total number of trains in service during peak is taken care of IMHO.

Plenty of rollingstock capacity and availability despite what the courier mail and ministers are trying to stir up. It also removes a lot of dead running from Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove because at present they all dead run everywhere via the Tennyson loop. If congestion is bad enough they just run em straight through to Milton stopping inbound services from south Brisbane. Caboolture-Redcliffe already provide enough peak hour services for infill and they already have the cross at Eagle Junction station with Gold Coast services. Redcliffe already has a 7 minute peak frequency before you start adding in Caboolture/Nambour/Roma Street services. Core capacity would also be increased due to the removal of the flat junction crosses which allows for a couple extra peak services if needed.

Eagle Junction capacity will be interesting once CRR is online as this will be the major interchange for Bowen Hills and Brunswick Street services (ignoring the fact that some would transition to exhibition station). But hey it would be good if a transport body would make this knowledge public instead of secrecy.

Quote from: Stillwater on February 07, 2023, 12:53:30 PMHopefully there will be a lot of consultation about the interiors -- accessible toilets, bike racks, wheelchair access, luggage storage, wi-fi, etc and maybe an onboard coffee shop concession for the longer runs to Toowoomba and Coolangatta etc. 

I legitimately think that for longer runs we should consider small coffee/cafe modules (although currently food and drink are banned on city network trains). It's a big draw card over driving - you can have a cuppa or a light snack as you're getting to where you're going, without having to make a pit stop. With that said though, it's kind of at odds with the standard higher-capacity layout of city network trains, so IMO you'd only really want it if you were bringing back the SMU/IMU distinction

Also adds to the cost of running the service as you now have an additional crew member.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on February 07, 2023, 18:08:02 PM

Quote from: #Metro on February 06, 2023, 18:05:53 PM

QuoteTo run the frequencies we have campaigned for (outlined below) how many train sets do we calculate are needed. Is 65 enough?

The train requirement would be set by the volume of trains required during peak.

During off-peak, fewer trains are in service as frequencies drop. I would imagine many units go into stabling during the off-peak.

So no need for additional trains if the total number of trains in service during peak is taken care of IMHO.

Plenty of rollingstock capacity and availability despite what the courier mail and ministers are trying to stir up. It also removes a lot of dead running from Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove because at present they all dead run everywhere via the Tennyson loop. If congestion is bad enough they just run em straight through to Milton stopping inbound services from south Brisbane. Caboolture-Redcliffe already provide enough peak hour services for infill and they already have the cross at Eagle Junction station with Gold Coast services. Redcliffe already has a 7 minute peak frequency before you start adding in Caboolture/Nambour/Roma Street services. Core capacity would also be increased due to the removal of the flat junction crosses which allows for a couple extra peak services if needed.

Eagle Junction capacity will be interesting once CRR is online as this will be the major interchange for Bowen Hills and Brunswick Street services (ignoring the fact that some would transition to exhibition station). But hey it would be good if a transport body would make this knowledge public instead of secrecy.

So with (or without?) the additional 65 trains can Queensland Rail run trains (inc maintaining and cleaning them) to run trains 10-15 minute (or less) frequencies on all stations from 6am to 9pm 7 days a week including the Airport Line...if they were paid/asked to.

But they won't. Not all lines require such an off peak frequency.  Anyway that all depends on the running patterns, train paths, turn around facilities/times, infrastructure constraints, dead running but most importantly crew availability. When you get to peak it's wide knowledge that longer lines ie Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast will cop frequency reductions in return for 9 car trains.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on February 08, 2023, 06:43:01 AMBut they won't. Not all lines require such an off peak frequency.  Anyway that all depends on the running patterns, train paths, turn around facilities/times, infrastructure constraints, dead running but most importantly crew availability. When you get to peak it's wide knowledge that longer lines ie Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast will cop frequency reductions in return for 9 car trains.

But could they!

As I said there's other variables. You could bump up the frequency but you can also introduce extended dwell times which slows down the services. You can slow services down by running on double yellows. You can even increase network unreliability. Doomben is a single track spur that can only operate at 30 mins. Shorncliffe needs quick turn around crews. Crosses become important. Does dead running become the norm increasing costs? Many things are possible but it doesn't mean it should be done.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on February 08, 2023, 07:05:19 AMAs I said there's other variables. You could bump up the frequency but you can also introduce extended dwell times which slows down the services. You can slow services down by running on double yellows. You can even increase network unreliability. Doomben is a single track spur that can only operate at 30 mins. Shorncliffe needs quick turn around crews. Crosses become important. Does dead running become the norm increasing costs? Many things are possible but it doesn't mean it should be done.

I know and agree but what I am hearing is the rollingstock now or after 65(?) new trains is not the limiting factor.

It's still a combination of all. CRR will change everything again in terms of operations/paths, fleet utilisation, crewing, infrastructure/signalling. It's not a straight yes/no answer. Doomben itself can handle 4tph but you are on the cusp of a high network unreliability with the slightest delay impacting other services (such as a stationary train at Eagle Junction blocking inbound and outbound services on the subs) and increased costs associated with having more crews at Doomben for turn arounds. Then you have to squeeze everything in between other services which eats into your window. There are 4 junctions that come into play and paths through the core become critical which is why services frequently bypass Eagle Junction-Bowen Hills and Cleveland services running express to Park Road to maintain city slots. If they don't arrive at park road in the same slot as the terminators they backlog Park Road-Roma Street and create further issues at Yeerongpilly as that slot to cross over to Sherwood/Corinda is now a problem as you have outbound empties held at Sherwood while inbound services jockey on the crossovers due to the layout at Darra and Corinda crossovers (electrification of the 4th track is really needed).

And the new rollingstock is not a fleet expansion of 65. The first part is supposed to be a fleet increase with the second half being EMU replacement. Depending how the network is managing especially with the ongoing SMU200 issues (apparently refits are still being questioned) the EMU withdrawal will split delivery into 3 stages (fleet expansion, EMU replacement, fleet expansion).

An interesting question was raised in a discussion about the NNGRs on a separate forum - do we think that they will continue to have the guard's carriage at the rear of the train, or might they move it back to the middle? This was an issue raised in the Commission of Enquiry, IIRC.

It will be rear as far as I am aware. This is because they will be fixed 6 car but able to run 9 car consist with 3 more carriages inserted in the middle. If and when they move to 9 car they will be exclusively on CRR Sunshine Coast/Gold Coast only services.