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Author Topic: How to do Indro bus interchange.  (Read 5292 times)

Offline Gazza

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How to do Indro bus interchange.
« on: March 14, 2013, 05:34:35 PM »
I think I've figured it out. Basically, have it as a 2nd concourse at the other end of the station with the bus platforms above it (like RBWH)

Lifts would run from the bus platforms down to the concourse and down to the end of the rail platforms.

During construction the back 3 cars of all trains stopping at Indooroopilly would be locked off....Along the platforms at all ipsiwch stations have a  temp sign 3 every few meters telling indro bound pax to move down the platform. This gives crews a clear run to do the works.

Would be a standard elevated busway station, with Coonan st being changed from a T junction to 4 way intersection.

Demolish the 7/11 and chinese restaurant. and build straight through: The back of the buildings is just car parks etc luckily, so easy to build.
http://goo.gl/maps/Gkzyo

The subway would be closed off permanently.

Pics:

http://i.imgur.com/JegYkA6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LFSIjTa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8OG5rEJ.jpg
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 05:47:36 PM by Gazza »

Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 07:35:43 PM »
Thanks.  During 2006/2007 there were a number of efforts made to get some sensibility into Indooroopilly station upgrade to include a bus interchange of sorts.  One of the concepts was not unlike yours, with a bus exchange above the station.

In 2009 or thereabouts there was a transport talk fest in Brisbane.  I recall very clearly that one of the great failures identified on that day was the failure to include a bus interchange with the Indooroopilly rail station upgrade.  It was always going to come back and bite ...
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 09:56:24 PM »
I'm not sure why you wouldn't just close Station Rd to traffic and have the ramp for the bus interchange start where you currently have it except running straight down station Rd over Coonan? You'd have to modify the Coonan/Westminster St intersection to cope with extra traffic but you're removing one intersection from Coonan St so theres still a benefit for car traffic there.
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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 10:02:12 PM »
Trying to avoid disrupting Station Rd too much.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 10:08:36 PM »
If you're worried about traffic impacts you're still going to have to close Coonan St for periods to construct the overpass. You can probably do that with closures like how they did the overpass at Yeerongpilly though by just doing it with precast members and only closing it while you crane it into place over a weekend.

I'd still be very surprised if you could do that without a partial closure of Station Rd for trucks, etc.
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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 10:26:42 PM »
What i mean is that if there is a overpass ramping up it destroys access to that retail strip and the pub.

Offline newbris

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 10:30:36 PM »
How about my dodgy "On The Cheap" option which makes use of the existing subway under the road, leaves station road accessible and brings masses of foot traffic to local retail. Would just need a "lead stop" and to extend the existing subway under station road to the other footpath (black arrow).

Cars: Blue
Buses: Red
People: Black


Indooroopilly Interchange - Cheap by newbris, on Flickr


You could even allow 2 lanes of cars one way up station road and force the other direction down Westminister St:


Indooroopilly Interchange - One Way by newbris, on Flickr
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 11:00:42 PM by newbris »

Offline Golliwog

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 10:59:21 PM »
Isn't Station Rd going downhill there? So any ramp up in the road space would surely be high enough quickly enough to allow for a small pedestrian mall area underneath it near Coonan St? That's how I imagine it anyway. I think if you got some developers involved as well you could redo those shops at the same time so it all works together as an urban area based around the bus and train interchange. It's going to happen eventually with Westfield et all making their slow march towards the station, why not do it in one big construction hit? Combine construction sites for construction and cost efficiencies on both sides.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 11:30:19 PM »
Hi there,

I wanted to point something out here re: Western Suburbs is that even if interchange at Indooroopilly Bus station is not desirable, could the 444 feeder could also stop at Indooropilly BUS station?

If so, there are always buses at Indooroopilly bus station in peak hour, the new high frequency Centenary BUZ will go there, as will many others, and the walk meters across a stripey crossing at indooroopilly bus station to get to the bus platform on the opposite side, wait time in peak would be less than 60 seconds and because they are just changing buses, the bus will still go down Coronation Drive and still be safe, reliable, comfortable, etc, which would address residents' of Moggill concerns.

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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 12:22:34 AM »
Quote
I wanted to point something out here re: Western Suburbs is that even if interchange at Indooroopilly Bus station is not desirable, could the 444 feeder could also stop at Indooropilly BUS station?
It would stop at both the shopping center, and above the train station.

Quote
So any ramp up in the road space would surely be high enough quickly enough to allow for a small pedestrian mall area underneath it near Coonan St?
Might be a bit dingy for a pedestrian mall though if it were under?

Offline Jonno

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 07:50:57 AM »
Quote

Quote
So any ramp up in the road space would surely be high enough quickly enough to allow for a small pedestrian mall area underneath it near Coonan St?
Might be a bit dingy for a pedestrian mall though if it were under?

Could also be retail, restaurants, commercial underneath whilst maintaining pedestrian amenity

Offline Golliwog

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 08:01:46 PM »
Have a look around Stones Corner Busway station if you're even over that way. I very much doubt you'd get anywhere near as much space underneath, but I don't think that's dingy?
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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 08:07:57 PM »
During construction the back 3 cars of all trains stopping at Indooroopilly would be locked off.
What?  Even in peak!?  No way would that work.  You do realise that every train on the Ipswich line stops at Indooroopilly.  Even if you swapped that for Toowong I think it would be pretty unpleasant.

Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 08:32:28 PM »
I think you misunderstand. All 6 cars would be in use, but when they call at Indooroopilly specifically people in the back 3 cars wouldn't be allowed to get off.

Offline #Metro

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 08:43:04 PM »
Quote
What?  Even in peak!?  No way would that work.  You do realise that every train on the Ipswich line stops at Indooroopilly.  Even if you swapped that for Toowong I think it would be pretty unpleasant.

Disagree. During South Brisbane station works, entire station was closed and services just skipped it. Same should apply here. 3 car door locking presents OHS issues that probs would not be tolerated by todays high safety standards.
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 09:14:16 PM »
I suspect it would proceed in much the same fashion as Fortitude Valley except that there would only be disruptions in peak hour (because off peak everything uses the same track pair).
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Online HappyTrainGuy

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 09:48:38 PM »
I think you misunderstand. All 6 cars would be in use, but when they call at Indooroopilly specifically people in the back 3 cars wouldn't be allowed to get off.

I wouldn't bother. Too much of a fuss when it would be easier and quicker to just bypass the station during the scope of works.
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Offline Mozz

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 10:09:10 AM »
I concur with Bobs previous comment, a lost opportunity when redoing the station, $26.0M should have been spent more wisely back when...

Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2013, 10:22:53 AM »
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/M/Maroochydore%20Station%20Corridor%20Study/report/Pdf_maroochy_station_find_rec_report_section_05_part06.pdf

Quote
Bus interchange above rail alignment

Vertical ‘stacking’ of rail and bus facilities provides a good environment for passenger
transfer as well as efficient use of land. The example below is Whitfords, on the Perth
Northern Suburbs Railway line. Buses circulate above a rail platform, with lifts, escalators
and ramps connecting the two. The entire interchange is within the ‘paid’ zone so
passengers transferring can do so without the inconvenience of revalidating their tickets.
At Whitfords the rail runs in the median of a freeway, so visual amenity is not of major
importance. For Maroochydore, if this type of design were adopted, the entire interchange
would be contained within a structure with appropriate street frontage ...
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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 11:07:00 AM »
Here's a more refined drawing set: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_rl609a3YGPTUNpdFNUS3Nod3c/edit?usp=sharing

Offline James

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2013, 03:50:20 PM »
Closing the station off completely would present too many issues, especially re: school children. I think having front three carriages unlocked with back three locked should be adequate, especially if enough announcements are made. If this is not appropriate, stop the Ipswich expresses at Chelmer and make people change to an all-stopper (or vice versa).

I personally think Gazza's idea hits the mark here, unless traffic flows caused by diverting Westminster Street become an issue. I do however, have two concerns.
1. If the pedestrian/cycle bridge was removed and became a car bridge, there'd be issues. I still think that bridge is a monument to Peter Beattie waste - few people use it and there are already foot options along Walter Taylor, albeit unsatisfactory. Unfortunately nothing is going to stop some soccer mums coming to the local schools in their Pajeros to pick up their special children.
2. I think there are currently restrictions on right-hand turns from Westminster Street turning into Coonan Street. This presents issues as the only next suitable place for the bus to turn is Clarence into Swann and that presents issues of their own. Hence, buses going through to the CBD would have trouble getting to the CBD (and I feel it is essential all western suburbs routes that go through there to get a comprehensive western suburbs 'hub').
3. Subway should try and be kept open during most of construction - even afterwards. It is a significant point of through traffic for people crossing the railway line to get from the Indooroopilly mini-CBD to the areas of housing east of the railway line. Especially for school children, this subway is very important. To get rid of it without opening the overpass soon after will cause the kiosk up the stairs (and traffic lights along Coonan Street) to become chaotic.

The whole Indooroopilly shopping area is a mess when it comes to public transport, and this is probably the only way to do it well. Half-baked stops along Coonan Street present a lot of issues (proper interchange, pedestrian traffic), and making the bottom part of station road the entry to the busway presents its own challenges.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline #Metro

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2013, 04:43:40 PM »
Quote
The whole Indooroopilly shopping area is a mess when it comes to public transport, and this is probably the only way to do it well. Half-baked stops along Coonan Street present a lot of issues (proper interchange, pedestrian traffic), and making the bottom part of station road the entry to the busway presents its own challenges.

Indooroopilly Shopping Centre will be getting an upgrade but as usual, not the PT change.
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Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2013, 04:53:33 PM »
From an older perspective this is interesting, year 2002 ...

I had a chat to Michael the other week, he is still around.

--> http://www.ourindooroopilly.com/issgbagin.html

Quote
Why do people sit in their cars rather than use buses and trains? Nearby there is a railway line capable of carrying over 700 people every ten minutes or so.



Quote
Some 200m or so away is Indooroopilly railway station. By minor road changes and perhaps a couple of traffic lights and some short sections of BUS LANES, buses could easily drop, wait then collect passengers to and from the trains which pass through here about every 15 minutes ... What could be easier?

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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2013, 04:55:52 PM »
Quote
1. If the pedestrian/cycle bridge was removed and became a car bridge, there'd be issues. I still think that bridge is a monument to Peter Beattie waste - few people use it and there are already foot options along Walter Taylor, albeit unsatisfactory. Unfortunately nothing is going to stop some soccer mums coming to the local schools in their Pajeros to pick up their special children.
Why would it be removed? This bus interchange would pass cleanly over the top of the shared path leading up to the bridge.

Quote
3. Subway should try and be kept open during most of construction - even afterwards.
See my revised drawing set. The subway would be uneeded because people would use the bus interchange concourse as an overbridge.

Offline James

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2013, 05:32:45 PM »
Quote
1. If the pedestrian/cycle bridge was removed and became a car bridge, there'd be issues. I still think that bridge is a monument to Peter Beattie waste - few people use it and there are already foot options along Walter Taylor, albeit unsatisfactory. Unfortunately nothing is going to stop some soccer mums coming to the local schools in their Pajeros to pick up their special children.
Why would it be removed? This bus interchange would pass cleanly over the top of the shared path leading up to the bridge.

Quote
3. Subway should try and be kept open during most of construction - even afterwards.
See my revised drawing set. The subway would be uneeded because people would use the bus interchange concourse as an overbridge.

1. I'm talking about long-term. Now I'm not anti-PT, but the current road transport (Walter Taylor Bridge) is a bottleneck, and I personally believe an additional bridge (one lane each direction) may be warranted in the future. In fact, it already is. Transport in the inner west in general is cactus, roads are congested, buses get caught in congestion, bottlenecks abound etc.

3. Through traffic in that subway is huge - designing the overbridge for for peak pedestrian flows is absolutely necessary. The staircase will also need to be very wide - school students generally insist on walking 10-abrest along pathways.

Also, bus lanes along Sir Fred Schonell Drive are definitely required. Elsewhere, there simply isn't the room for them. Hawken Drive is not a huge problem, but is only one lane in each direction.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Online HappyTrainGuy

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2013, 05:39:14 PM »
Huh? How wide do you actually think the shared path bridge actually is haha? Its also not designed for vehicle traffic. And why can't these "school children" use a provided school bus at the stations before/after?
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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2013, 06:00:33 PM »
Quote
1. I'm talking about long-term. Now I'm not anti-PT, but the current road transport (Walter Taylor Bridge) is a bottleneck, and I personally believe an additional bridge (one lane each direction) may be warranted in the future. In fact, it already is. Transport in the inner west in general is cactus, roads are congested, buses get caught in congestion, bottlenecks abound etc.
It would make more sense for a new bridge to be on the Western Side of the Water Taylor.

Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2013, 09:26:42 PM »
Link for those without Google accounts:

http://backontrack.org/docs/gazza/Indooroopilly_Bus2Rail_Gavin_Seipelt.pdf

Offline #Metro

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2013, 09:48:56 PM »
Quote
http://backontrack.org/docs/gazza/Indooroopilly_Bus2Rail_Gavin_Seipelt.pdf

Great stuff. Does it have to be single lane or is there scope for passing lanes too?

Also, would it be worthwhile to have a bus turnaround where buses can terminate using a loop?
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Offline Gazza

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2013, 10:10:52 PM »
The station is based on the dimensions of RBWH:
http://130.94.210.33/Northern_Busway_%20CDIMP/volume3.htm

Specifically:
http://130.94.210.33/Northern_Busway_%20CDIMP/Pdfs/VOLUME_3/Ultimate/Typical%20Cross%20Sections.pdf

5m platforms, 3m kerbside lanes, 3.5m passing lanes, 1.5m median.

So can accomodate buses passing.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2013, 06:58:27 AM »
I wouldn't mind seeing the subway at Indro closed - not DDA compliant, stinks, definitely not compliant with basic CPTED principles.  No need for it with this overbridge in place.
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Offline Derwan

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2013, 09:22:48 AM »
Just gone out to tender, a project, "To deliver feasibility planning and concept design for an Indooroopilly Bus – Rail Interchange. The primary focus of the project is to define a suitable location and develop a functional layout design for a bus – rail interchange solution in the vicinity of the Indooroopilly rail station."

https://secure.publicworks.qld.gov.au/etender/tender/display/tender-details.do?id=10196&action=display-tender-details

Tender documents: http://goo.gl/W4BNtC?gdriveurl

Edit: New link
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 07:29:33 PM by Derwan »
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Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2013, 09:32:20 AM »
 :-t :-c :lo :bu
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Offline James

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2013, 11:36:03 AM »
At long last, some sanity prevails in this state. Hopefully this goes ahead, if it does PT in the western suburbs could jump ahead in leaps and bounds.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline joninbrisbane

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2013, 11:56:54 AM »
Wow.  Quite unexpected!

Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2013, 12:22:10 PM »
An earlier thread ..

How to do Indro bus interchange. --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9732.0
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Online ozbob

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2013, 12:43:19 PM »
From ^

I think I've figured it out. Basically, have it as a 2nd concourse at the other end of the station with the bus platforms above it (like RBWH)

Lifts would run from the bus platforms down to the concourse and down to the end of the rail platforms.

During construction the back 3 cars of all trains stopping at Indooroopilly would be locked off....Along the platforms at all ipsiwch stations have a  temp sign 3 every few meters telling indro bound pax to move down the platform. This gives crews a clear run to do the works.

Would be a standard elevated busway station, with Coonan st being changed from a T junction to 4 way intersection.

Demolish the 7/11 and chinese restaurant. and build straight through: The back of the buildings is just car parks etc luckily, so easy to build.
http://goo.gl/maps/Gkzyo

The subway would be closed off permanently.

Pics:

http://i.imgur.com/JegYkA6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LFSIjTa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8OG5rEJ.jpg

Thanks.  During 2006/2007 there were a number of efforts made to get some sensibility into Indooroopilly station upgrade to include a bus interchange of sorts.  One of the concepts was not unlike yours, with a bus exchange above the station.

In 2009 or thereabouts there was a transport talk fest in Brisbane.  I recall very clearly that one of the great failures identified on that day was the failure to include a bus interchange with the Indooroopilly rail station upgrade.  It was always going to come back and bite ...
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Offline Derwan

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2013, 12:57:04 PM »
At long last, some sanity prevails in this state. Hopefully this goes ahead, if it does PT in the western suburbs could jump ahead in leaps and bounds.

Don't expect to see anything soon.  This is a tender for a feasibility study, which is expected to run from 14 October 2013 to 30 June 2014.  Then there'll be the question on whether it can be funded and when it can be put into the budget.

But yes - without this nothing would happen... things are moving so that's great.  :)
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Offline #Metro

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2013, 06:38:32 PM »
I'd like to see a turn around for buses (like Wooloongabba or Stones Corner Busways) so that services can terminate at the train station and turn back if need be. It wouldn't be a bad spot for layover either.
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Offline Derwan

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Re: How to do Indro bus interchange.
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2013, 06:49:32 PM »
I'd like to see a turn around for buses (like Wooloongabba or Stones Corner Busways) so that services can terminate at the train station and turn back if need be. It wouldn't be a bad spot for layover either.

Here are a few design requirements:

3.10.2   The bus - rail interchange facility is to consider provision for:
•   Preference for a lead stop arrangement that facilitates independent bus operations.
•   Stop capacity of 2 loading bays in each direction.
•   2 short-term recovery bays for off peak weekday and weekend requirements (no long-term recovery bays). The ideal layover location will be dependent upon the location and capacity of the proposed facility, and therefore should take into consideration a location where:
-   Drivers can observe bus facility use;
-   Result in minimal to no delays when leaving the layover / holding bays and accessing the bus-rail interchange facility (or nearby Indooroopilly bus station);
-   Within reasonable distance of an accessible toilet and drinking water provision which drivers can access (i.e. typically located within 100 metres of layover bays);
-   Off site but in close proximity to the bus facility subject to negotiation with the operator, and with consideration to potential operational cost-savings.
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