12 Mar 2013: Bus Review: Western suburbs' commutes faster with connection

[ozbob]

Media release 12th March 2013



Bus Review: Western suburbs' commutes faster with connection

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers welcomes the SEQ Bus Network review which proposes a shift from an everything to the CBD direct network to a Go Frequent Network based on connections (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The basics of connection based bus networks and their advantages is laid out here ---> http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html  In brief, more people can get frequent, reliable and faster service with connections than without them. It is also cost effective, efficient and avoids flooding the CBD with buses and gives residents of Centenary, Bulimba, Yeronga and the Northwest greatly improved services for the first time ever."

Gavin Seipelt, Brisbane West Region Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said:

"While the 444 carries many passengers, most of this is from Indooroopilly to the CBD.  While it may sound counter intuitive, but the new arrangements will actually reduce travel times, not increase them. The 444 is proposed to be replaced by the S500. (See http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-444.png) It will travel to Indooroopilly, and then continue to UQ. The fact the bus now goes to Indooroopilly train station is the crucial factor."

"The key point is that the bus currently takes 25 minutes at best, usually longer to travel between Indooroopilly and the CBD. But express trains from Indooroopilly take just 8 minutes to do the same journey (All stops trains still only take 12 minutes). Trains at Indooroopilly train station arrive every 6 minutes in peak hour. This is twice/triple the speed of the bus."

"Passengers from Moggill will actually be better off under the new system, because they can stay on the bus after Indooroopilly shopping center, and get off one stop later at the station, and wait a maximum of 6 minutes for a train. And if, for whatever reason they prefer a bus, there will be many to choose from at Indooroopilly Shopping Centre."

"Surely changing to the train and getting to the city in 8 minutes flat is far better than enduring the at least 25 minute 'Coronation Drive crawl'!"

"Finally, the best outcome for the area is to ensure the bus still runs every 15 minutes 7 days a week. The shortened route to Indooroopilly and UQ will cost less to run, and will speed up travel to the CBD due to the chance to take advantage of the trains, which residents have never had been able to do easily."

Robert Dow concluded:

"Many of the world's great cities have connections based public transport - London, Paris, Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto. For example, in Toronto, Canada, 98% of buses run to train stations, with only a handful of peak hour buses making it into the CBD. Passengers perform a connection from buses to trains, which allows trains to run every 5 minutes in the off peak, all day long. Maximum simplicity is achieved, with the minimum number of bus routes. Passenger fares cover ~ 70% of Toronto's transit operations, and fares are low - the exact opposite to what we have here in South East Queensland. Brisbane also runs significantly more bus routes than Toronto, even though Toronto has a larger city and far more passengers, a testament of Brisbane's very complex inefficient bus system at present."

"We look forward to the roll-out of the Go Frequent Network, as always,  members of the public are welcome on our forum anytime."

Contacts:

Gavin Seipelt
Brisbane West Region Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

1. SEQ bus network review http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review

[ozbob]

Discussion thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9045.msg121613#msg121613

[#Metro]

Gazza Made it into the Courier Mail
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/feedback-extended-on-bus-network-changes/story-e6freoof-1226595791120

Becoming quite famous now Gavin! 

[Andrew]

"Passengers from Moggill will actually be better off under the new system, because they can stay on the bus after Indooroopilly shopping center, and get off one stop later at the station, and wait a maximum of 6 minutes for a train. And if, for whatever reason they prefer a bus, there will be many to choose from at Indooroopilly Shopping Centre."

"Surely changing to the train and getting to the city in 8 minutes flat is far better than enduring the at least 25 minute 'Coronation Drive crawl'!"

You're kidding right? You actually believe that?  Have you ever gone along Moggill Rd from Chapel Hill to Indooroopilly Shops in the height of a full blown peak hour?  Seriously (and I'm not exaggerating), it can take you the same time to reach Indooroopilly Station as it can to reach the Mt Cootha Rd roundabout from the Chapel Hill stop.  From both of those locations, it takes a comparable time to the City.  A P443 that went via the Western Freeway could reach Roma St in around 20 mins or so in good coditions which could be hard to match with the bus-train connection even with a good run.  I can't understand removing the P443.  I think the complaints from Moggill commuters would largely subside if a Western Freeway rocket was planned.

[SurfRail]

I'm actually with Andrew on this.  Revert the route to what was the old 441 and run via the freeway - but only in peak.  There's no particularly reason why this corridor should be any different to the other western services with a peak rocket.

However, I am with Gazza on the daytime services which will basically replace the 425 and 430/433, which is that they should only go to Indooroopilly.  Both are half-hourly, and by truncating to Indooroopilly you can look at making them run more frequently all day.

The western rockets I have no big issue with, but I would try to keep them basically identical to the day-time routes to Indooroopilly except turning onto the freeway at Chapel Hill.  I don't like a system where there are bus stops which only have peak-hour service where there are nearby full-service stops, when this could be easily avoided.

Some of the proposed peak services are severely counter-intuitive as they go the opposite direction to the "normal" route, and in several cases actually travel away from the direction of the city initially (especially the Sherwood ones which I can only assume have something to do with dead running from the depot given how silly they look otherwise).

[ozbob]

You should read all the threads Andrew.  We have suggested that the P443 be continued along the better route along the freeway.  Pity BCC failed to live up to their commitments to enable Legacy Way for buses, that would have been a major improvement and much better options for the west could have been enabled ...

[somebody]

"Passengers from Moggill will actually be better off under the new system, because they can stay on the bus after Indooroopilly shopping center, and get off one stop later at the station, and wait a maximum of 6 minutes for a train. And if, for whatever reason they prefer a bus, there will be many to choose from at Indooroopilly Shopping Centre."

"Surely changing to the train and getting to the city in 8 minutes flat is far better than enduring the at least 25 minute 'Coronation Drive crawl'!"

You're kidding right? You actually believe that?  Have you ever gone along Moggill Rd from Chapel Hill to Indooroopilly Shops in the height of a full blown peak hour?  Seriously (and I'm not exaggerating), it can take you the same time to reach Indooroopilly Station as it can to reach the Mt Cootha Rd roundabout from the Chapel Hill stop.  From both of those locations, it takes a comparable time to the City.  A P443 that went via the Western Freeway could reach Roma St in around 20 mins or so in good coditions which could be hard to match with the bus-train connection even with a good run.  I can't understand removing the P443.  I think the complaints from Moggill commuters would largely subside if a Western Freeway rocket was planned.

Let's analyse that.  You are saying that it takes the same time from Moggill Rd/Western Freeway to the city via the freeway as via Indro station.  I believe that is about right.  Well we know that it takes an extremely long time from Indooroopilly to the city via Moggill Rd/Coro vs the train.  Well why not get on the train then?

The most criminal aspect is the lack of a peak bus lane inbound along Moggill Rd through Chapell Hill/Kenmore, even though there is room for a third lane in much of the corridor.

[Andrew]

You should read all the threads Andrew.  We have suggested that the P443 be continued along the better route along the freeway.  Pity BCC failed to live up to their commitments to enable Legacy Way for buses, that would have been a major improvement and much better options for the west could have been enabled ...

Then I have to ask why that wasn't put in the media release? If that's what you guys truly support and/or believe, I struggle to understand why this wasn't included in the media release.  It made the release seem very one sided.

Let's analyse that.  You are saying that it takes the same time from Moggill Rd/Western Freeway to the city via the freeway as via Indro station.  I believe that is about right.  Well we know that it takes an extremely long time from Indooroopilly to the city via Moggill Rd/Coro vs the train.  Well why not get on the train then?

The most criminal aspect is the lack of a peak bus lane inbound along Moggill Rd through Chapell Hill/Kenmore, even though there is room for a third lane in much of the corridor.

I agree a bus lane would help although once you're past Marshall Lane, the corridor lacks the room for a bus lane I think without significant works.  What I was trying to say in my post was that the bus/train combination is probably at best comparable.  To the residents of Moggil and Bellbowrie, a one seat journey that takes the same or less time than a combined bus/train journey is preferrable.  To give you my calculations

Train/bus connection
Chapel Hill - Indooroopilly Int. 4-10 mins
Indooroopilly Int. - Indooroopilly Stn 2-4 mins
Time for interchange 2-4 mins (plus any waiting time)
Train journey to Roma St 8-12 mins (dependant on train caught)

So journey time varies from 16-30 mins (plus waiting time) depending on the time of year (traffic is far better when school and uni are on holidays obviously)

Direct bus
Chapel Hill - Mt Cootha Rd Roundabout 6-15 mins
Mt Cootha Rd Roundabout - Milton Stop 4-8 mins
Milton Stop - Roma St Busway 4-9 mins

Journey time varies from 14-32 mins dependng on the time of year

The times are approximations based on what I've experienced doing the 45x & 46x series routes

[#Metro]

Andrew, could you show your calculations for bus/bus interchange at indro bus station. Thanks.

[Andrew]

Andrew, could you show your calculations for bus/bus interchange at indro bus station. Thanks.

I'm with Simon's quote of about 25 mins Indro-City on that one.  It would depend on traffic heavily.

bus/bus connection
Chapel Hill - Indooroopilly Int. 4-10 mins
depends on time between buses
Indooroopilly Int. - Toowong High St 6-12 mins
Toowong High St - City 10-20 mins (heavily depends on traffic)

So you're looking at 20-42 mins depending on traffic and adding time for interchange.  I think there is no argument a train from Indro to the city is faster than a bus, especially in peak hour.  My main point is from Chapel Hill, the problem is getting to the train and I believe there is little or no advantage in doing that if you're heading for Milton or the City.

[#Metro]

Andrew, I am a but sceptical simply because a bus bus change in peak should not take more than 5 minute, walking time included.* Importantly, we don't know yet if the new shorter secondary routes will have more frequency, leading to a reduction in waiting and thus journey time.*

I note that the current 427 and 428 services already extend to chapel hill etc and are well used, with more buses to UQ connection times will be even faster.

We cannot continue to keep sending ever increasing numbers of buses down coronation drive in competition to trains and other buses. The money wasted doing this would be better spent on more frequent service to centenary and the like.

I take the point about changing at indro rail, but one only need look at toowong to see how it works even without formal bus bays. and theres also changing to other buses at indro shopping centre.