Double the trains to Ferny Grove

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/double-the-trains-to-ferny-grove.html

Double the trains to Ferny Grove

Tuesday, 18 September 2012 10:51

Passengers will be able to turn up and go with daytime trains arriving every 15 minutes on the Ferny Grove train line starting from Monday, October 8.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson announced the start date for the election commitment, which will see 28 new train services a day between 9am and 3pm.

"For too long passengers on Brisbane public transport have paid too much for poor frequency," Mr Emerson said.

"In our first six months, the Newman Government added 2,000 additional weekly bus services and from next month we'll double the off-peak train frequency to and from Ferny Grove station.

"The new services would operate through the CBD to Park Road station on the Beenleigh line, also providing more off-peak weekday options on the southern side of the river.

"Ironically off-peak trains will now be better than some peak frequency on the Ferny Grove line due to poor planning by four former Labor Transport Ministers, who ignored the looming capacity crisis at the Merivale Bridge, first raised by former Premier Beattie in 2005.

"We are working on a plan to fix their mess and extend the capacity through Brisbane's CBD beyond the 2016 crisis deadline."

Member for Ferny Grove Dale Shuttleworth said the $18 million, two-year commitment for more train services would require an additional 18 train crew

"Better frequency will attract more customers back to public transport and start reducing congestion on roads in north-west Brisbane," Mr Shuttleworth said.

"A train every 15 minutes or better inbound and outbound on the Ferny Grove line during off peak on weekdays, now means frequent public transport is never far away."

The first new inbound train will leave Ferny Grove station at 8.42am weekdays, with a train departing every 15 minutes until 3.12pm. The first new outbound train will depart Central at 8.21am, with trains departing every 15 minutes until 3.18pm.

Member for Everton Tim Mander said there had never been a better time to get out of the car and onto public transport.

"Train passengers are already saving hundreds of dollars a year with the LNP's free travel after nine journeys and we'll be halving Labor's fare hikes in 2013 and 2014," Mr Mander said.

"Better frequency is an important part of the LNP's plans to get people back onto public transport."

There will also be some minor changes on the Shorncliffe, Doomben and Cleveland lines, so passengers should keep their eye out for updated timetables at stations or online.

Several bus timetables are also being upgraded to ensure bus-train connectivity at train stations.

[ozbob]

Park Road is better than Roma St, but I would have liked to see them running through to Yeerongpilly.

[ozbob]

Media release 18th September 2012

SEQ: Ferny Grove line - turn up and go trains

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has welcomed the announcement of increased train frequency - 15 minutes on the Ferny Grove line weekdays between the peaks (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Public transport must be fast, direct and frequent. The Ferny Grove line is ideally placed to have an increased train frequency (2).  This will drive patronage increases and cuts down on waiting time with bus/rail connections particularly."

"The Ferny Grove line has now been duplicated and will be able to support the increased train frequency.  This is a sound policy and will be welcomed by the community."

"It would have been a great outcome had the extra trains ran through to Yeerongpilly rather than Park Road. This would have then given a 15 minute rail service from Ferny Grove to Yeerongpilly, Northgate to Darra.  A major boost for the network."

"RAIL Back On Track has long called for improvements in train frequency on all lines. In time further incremental improvements will need to be made on the rest of the network (3)."

References:

1. http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/double-the-trains-to-ferny-grove.html

2. 10 Jan 2012 SEQ: Trips and frequency? http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7440.0

3. 24 Jan 2012: SEQ: Core Frequent Network: Get Rail Back On Track! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7530.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Twitter

5m  Robyn Ironside ‏@ironsider

28 more off peak services to start on Ferny Grove train line from Oct 8. Means 9-3 will be better serviced than peak times.

[nathandavid88]

Park Road is better than Roma St, but I would have liked to see them running through to Yeerongpilly.

They probably figured that Park Road/Boggo Road was the logical ending point due to it being the busway connection.

Out of curiosity, how far down the Beenleigh line could they have gotten the 15 minute frequency? Could they have taken it all the way to Beenleigh? Or would they have run into issues after Kuruby (or even earlier)?

[somebody]

"Ironically off-peak trains will now be better than some peak frequency on the Ferny Grove line due to poor planning by four former Labor Transport Ministers, who ignored the looming capacity crisis at the Merivale Bridge, first raised by former Premier Beattie in 2005.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!  Merivale bridge has NOTHING to do with Ferny Grove frequencies.

Park Road is better than Roma St, but I would have liked to see them running through to Yeerongpilly.

I re-iterate Corinda.

Out of curiosity, how far down the Beenleigh line could they have gotten the 15 minute frequency? Could they have taken it all the way to Beenleigh? Or would they have run into issues after Kuruby (or even earlier)?

Without re-timing the services you couldn't even reach Coopers Plains.

[ozbob]

Is there anywhere else in the world that has a better off peak frequency than peak frequency?

Way to go Queenslander!

[ozbob]

Dutton Park, Fairfield, Yeronga all have their trip generators.  Lots of walk up pax as well.

I am just glad they didn't stop at Roma St, which was one of the options.

Park Road is better than Roma St, but I would have liked to see them running through to Yeerongpilly.

They probably figured that Park Road/Boggo Road was the logical ending point due to it being the busway connection.

Out of curiosity, how far down the Beenleigh line could they have gotten the 15 minute frequency? Could they have taken it all the way to Beenleigh? Or would they have run into issues after Kuruby (or even earlier)?

[Gazza]

Well, it's a win at this point and before the election they could very well have not promised it at all, and still got in.
I'm happy at least one of the most obvious lines to implement high frequency has had it happen.

[BrizCommuter]

15 minutes outbound till 3:18, then 20 minute gaps. Go figure! 

LNP, TransLink, and QR continuing the tradition of half-baking what could have been a revolution in Brisbane's public transport. Blog post coming later, after BrizCommuter stops banging his head against a wall.

[Gazza]

Wouldn't the 20 minute gaps dissapear in sector 2 reviews?

I mean, it's a fun train foamer oddity that messes with their brains, that there is a line with peak hour gaps longer than off peak:




But I doubt it would be a permanent thing.

[ozbob]

Train foamers think it is rather cool I would suggest, it is the average citizen/journo who seems a bit more than puzzled ...

But such are the limitations of the peak flow ..

[nathandavid88]

Out of curiosity, how far down the Beenleigh line could they have gotten the 15 minute frequency? Could they have taken it all the way to Beenleigh? Or would they have run into issues after Kuruby (or even earlier)?

Without re-timing the services you couldn't even reach Coopers Plains.

Ah ok. If QR did retime all the services on the line (but without any new infrastructure), could services reach Kuraby then? 

Dutton Park, Fairfield, Yeronga all have their trip generators.  Lots of walk up pax as well.

I am just glad they didn't stop at Roma St, which was one of the options.

Agreed. At least getting they got the trains going across the river. It opens the door more to possibly extending it further down the Beenleigh line in the future. Personally, I'd love to see it at least reach Altandi and get more of an interchange between the trains and the 130 & 140 BUZ routes promoted. It makes for a pretty good outer suburban link between the line and the SE Busway.  A service that goes via Tennyson wouldn't be sniffed at either.

15 minutes outbound till 3:18, then 20 minute gaps. Go figure! 

It's a little bit hilarious! Hopefully it's a situation that QR will work to rectify at the next chance. At least they didn't use that as an excuse for leaving FG frequency fixed. "We can't increase peak frequency further" would have made a good "it's too hard" excuse!

[somebody]

15 minutes outbound till 3:18, then 20 minute gaps. Go figure! 

LNP, TransLink, and QR continuing the tradition of half-baking what could have been a revolution in Brisbane's public transport. Blog post coming later, after BrizCommuter stops banging his head against a wall.

This is NOT news.  Just confirmation of what we expected all along.

Out of curiosity, how far down the Beenleigh line could they have gotten the 15 minute frequency? Could they have taken it all the way to Beenleigh? Or would they have run into issues after Kuruby (or even earlier)?

Without re-timing the services you couldn't even reach Coopers Plains.

Ah ok. If QR did retime all the services on the line (but without any new infrastructure), could services reach Kuraby then? 

Depends.  It has been proposed on here to use the triple track to have northbound passing moves Coopers Plains-Park Rd and southbound passing moves Coopers Plains-Kuraby.  I wasn't a fan of that idea FWIW.

Going to Kuraby without passing moves would require the Gold Coast trains being slowed in one direction.  I feel that this would be a non starter.

[Gazza]

Train foamers think it is rather cool I would suggest, it is the average citizen/journo who seems a bit more than puzzled ...

But such are the limitations of the peak flow ..

I think the average FGY commuter at present just looks at the timetable and takes "their" train, I'm not sure if the oddity even factors in to the majority.

[BrizCommuter]

Train foamers think it is rather cool I would suggest, it is the average citizen/journo who seems a bit more than puzzled ...

But such are the limitations of the peak flow ..

I think the average FGY commuter at present just looks at the timetable and takes "their" train, I'm not sure if the oddity even factors in to the majority.

The average potential Ferny Grove Line user reads the timetable and takes their car (or in some cases competing bus route)!

Anyway, here is BrizCommuter's blog post on 4tph to Ferny Grove.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/at-last-ferny-grove-gets-15-min-off.html

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> On the way: off-peak trains every 15 minutes for some commuters

[Golliwog]

Train foamers think it is rather cool I would suggest, it is the average citizen/journo who seems a bit more than puzzled ...

But such are the limitations of the peak flow ..

I think the average FGY commuter at present just looks at the timetable and takes "their" train, I'm not sure if the oddity even factors in to the majority.

We have to look at the timetable. To get to uni for an 8am lecture I really only have 1 option, the 7.04am express. Its either that or get to FG 20 minutes earlier for the 6.45am.  I guess the oddity side doesn't factor in, but the fact I'm paying a peak fare for the 'convenience' does.

[Gazza]

Equates to around $1236 per service.

[Golliwog]

Translink doesn't have the new timetable yet, but has a list of changes for some of the other lines. Not going to link as I'm on my phone.

[BrizCommuter]

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1347419366
No information on FG times yet, but looks like there is a more even off-peak service for Shorncliffe, and Doomben Lines. The 7pm service to Doomben has been dropped, but the hourly Beenleigh late night gap has been filled. If the new FG services reverse at Park Road, then there is a 9 min turnaround.

[somebody]

"Even more"?

That implies that there are already a lot.  Besides, the way I read the link there is one less Doomben train and the same number of Shorncliffe trains.

The 8:43am ex-Roma St to Yeerongpilly train is very welcome, and fills in a rather disgraceful twenty minute gap to South Bank.  Still leaves a 13 minute gap though.

Good that the hourly evening service is to be banished from Beenleigh, but why not from Ferny Grove?  I'm guessing the lack of stabling mars their thinking?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Is there anywhere else in the world that has a better off peak frequency than peak frequency?

Way to go Queenslander!

314. That Ipswich to boonies bus that runs twice a day. Any bus route that is run by Thompsons (they provide better frequencies for train closures on the Beenleigh line than services for locals humpphh).

Nathandavid88, Train services can't be thrown everywhere without lots of kinks being worked around (freight paths to/from the range/Ipswich corridor/Cleveland corridor - Cleveland has its own freight track but its pretty much a 20km crossing loop ie option 1 Yeerongpilly-Murarrie, option 2 Murarrie-Fishermans Island, option 3 Yeerongpilly-Fishermans Island, option 4 Yeerongpilly/Park Road-Fishermans Island via platform tracks with the option for a cross at Murarrie), current timetables for Shorncliffe/Cleveland/Doomben/Ferny Grove/Beenleigh/Airport/Gold Coast, spare paths, late running services, mtce testing/running, after morning peak movements/prior to arvo peak movements, different speeds in rollingstock (all stoppers, express, freight), crossovers, singaling ie following yellows/reds - example the morning Gold Coast travellers always know about the Yeronga petrol station scenic look stop as the morning about to form Kuraby-City service clears Yeerongpilly and dead runs or the other Yeerongpilly service that gets cleared and runs dead to the siding at Rocklea. Infrastructure and running also has to be taken into account. Roma Street, South Bank or Park Road were always going to be the most likely outcomes for termination due to the layout, available platforms, current timetabling and for the fact there is already a similar setup on weekends/night time with Shorncliffe-South Bank terminators (night services are usually for positioning reasons when trains are returning to Mayne to avoid conflicts).

[somebody]

That's what we give 'em the bucks for.

[somebody]

Equates to around $1236 per service.

I don't believe the LNP had any idea of the cost of this when in opposition but is sticking to its line.  If it really is this expensive it would seem to be time to privatise.

[BrizCommuter]

"Even more"?

No, "more even".

[somebody]

"Even more"?

No, "more even".

Ah, sorry about that.

[BrizCommuter]

Having had another look, the new outbound Shorncliffe times seem to create an outbound 22/8 min service to Northgate instead of the current 15/15. Not good news for users of stations between Albion and Northgate if this is the case.

[somebody]

Having had another look, the new outbound Shorncliffe times seem to create an outbound 22/8 min service to Northgate instead of the current 15/15. Not good news for users of stations between Albion and Northgate if this is the case.

Great point!  This seems to have been overlooked.

[BrizCommuter]

Having had another look, the new outbound Shorncliffe times seem to create an outbound 22/8 min service to Northgate instead of the current 15/15. Not good news for users of stations between Albion and Northgate if this is the case.

Great point!  This seems to have been overlooked.

It seems that Shorncliffe is now paired with Cleveland during the day. Surely this would save a few train crew and $$$. Are we being told the true costs by the LNP, QR, and TransLink?

[colinw]

So DOOMben is being decoupled from Cleveland and losing a service.  I guess it will end up being a shuttle to Roma St.

Will it survive?

[Golliwog]

So DOOMben is being decoupled from Cleveland and losing a service.  I guess it will end up being a shuttle to Roma St.

Will it survive?

My hunch is if they're going to close it, they'd be doing it soon as they seem to want to do every other negative thing in the first year so they can focus on being awesome for the next to. I can hardly see even the CM giving a total line closure a positive spin, even if it was to coincide with a positive like the stage 2 timetable review to fix the current peak timetables.

[HappyTrainGuy]

That's what we give 'em the bucks for.

I thought we gave them the bucks for building very very urgent and needed projects like the eastern busway 

[Set in train]

Agree, the new 15min train should run to Corinda. At least as a trial.

Cannot run 15min to Kuraby as there would almost a simulanteous 4 way pass around Coppers Plains. You need four tracks Sals to Kuraby to do this reliably. You cannot slow a GC train down as they is a syncronised pass on the airport line and GC line. It would be far cheaper to build a 4th track as mentioned that fix either of these two costly single sections.

Oh well 7pm Doomben, they gave it a go, have to wonder what the actual ridership numbers were?

I doubt Doomben will get cut, running a shuttle to Roma St is by far the best way to run it as you can run 3 car sets. As its a 25min journey, you could try and push a 5min turn around if the staff are relieved as required at Bowen Hills. Only two sets required then for 1hr schedule. The 5min includes 2-3min at Central, so perhaps that could be factored out/reduced to give more time to turn around. To cut the cost further, remove the guard on this train while providing the driver with details he needs in lieu of guard. Train security can be monitored externally.

Great comments, through to Corinda definitely. More political gain in it too, a couple more seats benefit. Park Rd catchment area is within Sth Bris electorate.

Yes, would love to know 7pm Doomben service numbers. Always time for a ride before it is cut?

Fantastic idea on the shuttle, 3 car set is sufficient, good work on reducing the staff number, wonder if union agreements allow that?

[SurfRail]

Are there seriously any impediments to this, at least during the interpeak:



4 x 15 minute frequency corridors (shown in unbroken red)
- (from Caboolture and Petrie/Kippa-Ring) Petrie to Darra (to Ipswich and Springfield)
- (from Shorncliffe and Doomben) Eagle Junction to Manly (Shorncliffe runs continuing to Cleveland)
- Ferny Grove to Coopers Plains
- Airport to Cooper Plains (to Beenleigh express Park Road to Coopers Plains then all stations, and to Gold Coast express Park Road to Coopers Plains, then Loganlea, then Beenleigh, then all stations)

Eventually increasing to 6 individual routes with some minimal amplifications - comprising the unbroken and broken red:
- Caboolture express to Ipswich express
- Kippa-Ring to Springfield
- Shorncliffe to Cleveland
- Doomben to Roma Street
- Ferny Grove to Coopers Plains
- Airport to Cooper Plains (to Beenleigh express Park Road to Coopers Plains then all stations, and to Gold Coast express Park Road to Coopers Plains, then Loganlea, then Beenleigh, then all stations)

Provides 15 minute frequency in the off-peak everywhere except:
- West of Ipswich (where it is unnecessary but could be provided if needed)
- North of Caboolture (where it is also probably unnecessary, although a decent 30min interval is)
- South of Coopers Plains (where ultimately it will be necessary)

[beauyboy]

Can someone explain to me why they didn't just use the Existing Cleveland services to make the 15min frequency in the offpeak. If I recall correctly Beenleigh & Cleveland services use to make a 15min schedule between Park Road & Bowen Hills. Would that of not made life a whole lot easier.
That would of been one less train path to allow for and no change is crossing patterns.

Donald

[Derwan]

Meanwhile, no word on the Sector 2 timetable reviews that are over a year overdue.

I hate politics.  Instead of doing it properly and introducing the 15-minute all-day frequency on the FG line in conjunction with the sector 2 timetables, they've had to do a heap of work to adjust services on other lines to fit it in during the day and then go back to normal times during peaks and evenings.

This results in different regular timing on the Shorncliffe Line between the "day" services and the "night" services.  (They're only adjusting services during the day.)

It's an absolute mess!  It should've been done ONCE as part of the complete review.

[Golliwog]

Meanwhile, no word on the Sector 2 timetable reviews that are over a year overdue.

IIRC, during one of our CRG's we asked about the stage 2 timetable review and the response was that it was still coming and they were meeting with Translink, but that their timetablers were working on the 15 minute FG timetables instead.

[petey3801]

Can someone explain to me why they didn't just use the Existing Cleveland services to make the 15min frequency in the offpeak. If I recall correctly Beenleigh & Cleveland services use to make a 15min schedule between Park Road & Bowen Hills. Would that of not made life a whole lot easier.
That would of been one less train path to allow for and no change is crossing patterns.

Might be ok for outbound, but the inbound CVN trains are only a few mins ahead of the inbound BNH (FYG bound) trains, so wouldn't work that way.

[beauyboy]

Agreed but before the 2009 stuff up of the timetables Cleveland & Beenleigh trains use to come through Park Road every 15mins.

There must be a way to make that work again.
I always find it funny 20years of progress and suburbain trains of Brisbane just get slower and slower :conf
for all the slowing of the trains the ontime figures have hardly improved

Donald