More room in EMUs

[ozbob]

In 2006 I wrote to the then Minister of Transport suggesting that some more room for standing passengers could be found by running horizontal bars across the centre seat areas of EMUs.  This would then allow a few hand straps to be placed which would allow 6 to 8 people to comfortably stand in the area in the centre where at the moment there is no support for them to hold.  This area is often empty even though the remainder of the carriage is jammed tight with passengers during peak loads.

A response was received thanking me for my suggestion, but it couldn't be done due to technical reasons.

I have since heard that this idea has been revisited, and we may well see horizontal bars with straps being added soon to the EMUs. And possibly complete carriage length overhead supports in due course.

The photograph with diagram below shows the general idea.



Photograph R Dow 4 May 2008

[Mozz]

Bob - I love it - apart from the fact I hate being on a train that can only safely carry 900 passengers when I am one of the 1200 or so people crammed on, I really don't like being buffetted around by not being able to hang onto a solid rail.

[ButFli]

While it's great that QR are trying to expand the capacity of the EMU's, I can't help but think that modifications such as the one suggested here are nothing more than symbolic. How many extra people will these extra handles allow? 4 would be lucky. An extra 25 passengers per 6 car train would be unlikely.

If QR is going to get serious about increasing the capacity of the EMU's then they need to do something drastic. They could replace the existing seating with retractable seats that run length-ways and mount vertical handlebars the entire length of the carriage, just like the SMU's. I'm sure this would cause a ruckus in  the media about a reduction in seated capacity but the overall capacity would be increased. QR could make these modifications to a limited number of EMU's and run them only in peak hour when the extra capacity is needed.

[stephenk]

In Japan most commuter trains only have longitudinal seating, and plenty of handrails and straps to hold onto. This allows for two rows of standing passengers, as opposed to one at present on Citytrain.

[brismike]

Seeing as I have a bad back and can't stand for too long . . I'd much rather sit than stand. 

But I wondered what had happened to this suggestion? . . I havn't seen anything like it yet?

[mufreight]

Comparisons with Japan and suburban operations there are somewhat unfair, their traveling times on their commuter services are much shorter. Where would they have a service such as Ipswich to Nambour of almost three hours, the thought of standing or sitting perched sideways on a most uncomfortable seat alone for that time would be a most effective deterrent to travel.
A more logical solution is quite simple, more trains and more frequent services.
Perhaps the next generation of suburban trains could be built as six car sets rather than as two three car sets which would allow the intermediat drivers cabs to be eliminated which would then provide accomodation for some 16 more seated passengers and standing room for another 20 or so.

[ozbob]

Haven't seen or heard anything for a while on this Mike.  But as always, ever hopeful ... 

[ozbob]

This is a media topic this morning, see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=96.msg38743#msg38743

[Zoiks]

This is defiantly something to look at and was covered in my report:: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4382.0

I would quote the section here but my work blocks that filesharing service. But the result was that people tend to stand around the vestibules and are like likely to spread through the carraige because of lack of amenity and accessability. My souces suggested things like handholds, shorter 'corridore' distances, wider 'corridores' etc. So there is expert opinion out there that agrees with us 

[mufreight]

Do these experts who create these flight of fantasy concepts and reports actually use rail to commute on a regular basis over longer distances.

[#Metro]

Like Zoiks suggested, there are a few options, and all of them have some kind of problem associated with them:

* Do nothing
* Less seats
* More frequent trains
* Longer trains
* Things like handrails etc
* Public education (often ineffective IMHO)

[mufreight]

The simple solution, Higher frequency gives greater capacity as well as attracting higher levels of patronage

[#Metro]

I forgot to add

* Pricing

- IMHO handrails are a no-brainer and more frequent services in the off peak to help peak load spread.

How long do people think the EMUs will be around? Some have been around since 1979/1980 AIUI.

[ozbob]

EMUs will be around at least for another 20 years I reckon.

[brismike]

So that means they will have given 50 years service .. Pretty good longevity. 

[somebody]

From the other thread, by ozbob:

There is no plan to increase doors as far as I aware, this was stated at the rolling stock focus group a year or so ago.

Commuter education and encouragement to think of others is needed.  Too easy to blame the operator all the time.

I think it is a shame.  The current door arrangement really only achieves single file flow, especially alighting, so we really need wider doors before we think about more doors though.

The simple solution, Higher frequency gives greater capacity as well as attracting higher levels of patronage

Indeed.  I don't know why we'd want to advocate more squeezed trains.

[ozbob]

I don't know why we'd want to advocate more squeezed trains.

I don't think anyone is advocating this at all.  But better utilisation of what we have is important as well as pushing for frequency.

Some simple improvements can make a comfort difference, for example if a campaign to encourage folks to move down the aisles as a matter of course the folks with prams would be better off, and the blow up today would be a lot less likely to have happened IMHO.

A number of calls to radio today have made the point about lack of hand holds in the centres of the carriages.  Some of the trains have been improved of late but in 2006 it didn't look very bright at all.  We were on EMUs that had upwards of 1200 pax on it at peaks at times.  A gain of 6 to 8 in the centre area was something of use.  Still is.