Article: LNP to halve fare rises

[somebody]

Poll Call: March 14
Edited by Georgia Waters and Danielle Cronin
March 14, 2012 - 10:58AM

10.52am: A breaking policy announcement that's sure to get a lot of attention.

The Liberal National Party will halve the annual 15% fare increases planned for southeast Queensland public transport if it wins office, Campbell Newman says.

Mr Newman said the promise would cost more than $100 million over the next three years, but insisted the services to be funded by the increases would not be cut, Daniel Hurst reports.

"We're finding savings elsewhere," he said of the funding for the promise.

Fares have increased by 15 per cent a year over the past three years, as part of a five-year fare plan, while two more such rises are scheduled in coming years.

The LNP has previously announced free travel would be made available after nine journeys, rather than Labor's free travel after 10 journeys offer, but has resisted making a firm pledge to halt fare increases, saying the state's rising debt should be brought under control first.

Mr Newman said the measure would save up to $1500 over the next three years for a regular commuter travelling from Mitchelton to the city, and $4600 over three years for someone travelling from Varsity Lakes.

"This is real fare relief. This is real cost of living savings which people are crying out for," he said.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/poll-call-march-14-20120314-1uz3j.html

[ozbob]

... but insisted the services to be funded by the increases would not be cut...

Noted ..

[ozbob]

Another deal in the policy poker game, will the ALP respond?

[somebody]

Another deal in the policy poker game, will the ALP respond?

Doubt it.  They've already announced their policy, going back on it would be seen as a back flip.  I'd be happy to be wrong though.

Next thing is the flag fall.  If we can get the LNP to promise to drop the flag fall maybe something can be salvaged from the fare policy.

[Jonno]

0% for car rego and 7.5% for public transport still equals congestion hell!!!  Do not give up until it is 0% on public transport as well.

[#Metro]

... but insisted the services to be funded by the increases would not be cut...

I am VERY SKEPTICAL here.

Remember, on the spectrum of Authorities, we are dealing with MATHS here with is RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM.

PT funding = fares + subsidy

If you do this PT funding = fares + subsidy you are left with PT funding = fares + subsidy

Both are high

I just worry this will happen (likely). LNP can talk all they want and promise the Earth, you can't defy math.

Public Transport = fares + subsidy

0% for car rego and 7.5% for public transport still equals congestion hell!!!  Do not give up until it is 0% on public transport as well.

If you want no rise, you are also wanting no new funding for new services. For heaven's sake, I hope we at least secure a deal on the MINIMUM BARE BASICS
which is COMPLETION OF THE CORE FREQUENT NETWORK. Fare cuts and all that are just frills..., funding $100 million dollars from efficiencies and blah blah is
just an appeal to delusion, self-interest and fantasy that we can have cake and eat it twice (just like SEQ 2031, funnily enough).

I would gladly give up all the gimmicks - 9 then free, 10 then free, fare cuts if they just please please put on and complete the bare bones CFN network so people can actually get around without having to buy a car.

[Jonno]

... but insisted the services to be funded by the increases would not be cut...

0% for car rego and 7.5% for public transport still equals congestion hell!!!  Do not give up until it is 0% on public transport as well.

If you want no rise, you are also wanting no new funding for new services.

Only if the Govt also agrees to no new road capacity for passenger cars.  

Of course I don't.  Every person who uses public transport instead of driving reduced overall tax burden so we in effect get more bang for the subsidy buck!!!  The NPV on a public transport subsidy is positive whilst a road subsidy (construction, industry bailouts, road trauma, road deaths, pollution related illnesses/deaths, social dislocation, etc. etc. etc) is well and truely negative.

[#Metro]

Spectrum of Authority
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/08/a-field-guide-to-transit-quarrels.html

$100 million dollars is equal to 16 BUZ routes  

I'd be happy to pay 15% more in fares in exchange for 16 BUZ routes!!!

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> LNP pledges to put brakes on public transport fare hikes, raising them by 7.5pc a year

[HappyTrainGuy]

Decent usership also results in more funding. All they are doing is squeezing money from the 9-5 workers that must rely on using it insteading of collecting it as a whole over different areas. No different than the clem 7 raising its prices, losing a few thousand trips but instead making a couple grand extra per day which is something public transport/Translink shouldn't be doing to its current extent.

[#Metro]

Decent usership also results in more funding. All they are doing is squeezing money from the 9-5 workers that must rely on using it insteading of collecting it as a whole over different areas. No different than the clem 7 raising its prices, losing a few thousand trips but instead making a couple grand extra per day which is something public transport/Translink shouldn't be doing to its current extent.

Crucially, what matters is WHEN that happens. Commuters in peak hour obviously have jobs to go to - otherwise they wouldn't be commuting to work in peak hour - so they *do* have wages. The network is close to capacity during peak hour and differential pricing prevents the network overloading and spreads the load. We saw this in action the day after the power fault two weeks ago when PT was free - the network overloaded and people were left behind.

What do people think happens to the fare money the government collects? Disappears down a black hole never to be seen again?
No- it gets spent on new services.

Setting the price too low means less cash for new services and more likely hood of overload. Perhaps something they can learn from in Melbourne...

[ozbob]

LNP Statement

Media Release

Campbell Newman
LNP Leader

CanDo fairer fares will lower cost of living

A CanDo LNP government will lower the cost of living for Queensland families by halving Labor's 15% fare hikes on public transport.

LNP Leader Campbell Newman said the LNP was committed to revitalising front line services, lowering the cost of living for Queensland families and increasing public transport patronage.

"This tired, 20-year Labor government is doubling SEQ public transport fares in just five years because Labor is slugging commuters to pay for its waste and mismanagement," Mr Newman said.

"The LNP understands that Queensland families have been hit hard by the spiralling cost of living under Labor.

"Labor is doubling fares for commuters while presiding over a collapse in the quality and reliability of our front line public transport services.

"Already commuters have been hit hard by three compounding 15% rises that have raised fares by more than 50%.

"As part of Labor's plan to double fares, the Bligh government has scheduled two more compounding 15% increases which will result in fares doubling from their 2009 level.

"The LNP will lower the cost of living by halving Labor's enormous fare rises to deliver real savings to commuters."

Mr Newman said capping fare rises would save commuters on TransLink buses, trains and ferries, at the cost of $101 million over the LNP's first term.

"We'll revitalise front line public transport services and reward regular commuters by reintroducing discounted weekly fares on go cards and move toward more regular public transport services," he said.

"These LNP initiatives will deliver real savings to commuters with a regular weekday commuters to the Brisbane CBD from Oxley or Mitchelton saving up to $1535 over three years, while commuters travelling from Varsity Lakes or Palmwoods will save up to $4650 as compared to the skyrocketing fares planned by the Bligh Labor Government.

"An LNP Government will grow a four pillar economy to redress Labor's $85 billion debt, but this will take discipline and time.

"Labor has continued to fail commuters by pushing up fares while failing to deliver a public transport network that is reliable, frequent and safe.

"Under Labor patronage of public transport has stagnated for the last 20 years.

"The LNP will act to revitalise our front line services to get more people on public transport and lower the cost of living by cutting waste. You can't have a public transport system that works for commuters without a change of Government.

"This is part of the LNP's vision for fixing transport across the whole of Queensland.

"We will also invest in Roads to Resources across regional Queensland and stump up $1 billion towards fixing the Bruce Highway despite it being a federal responsibility.

"Change won't happen by itself.

"The only way families will benefit from these fairer fares, instead of Labor's slug on commuters is to vote for their local LNP candidate or else Queensland will face three more long years of spiralling costs of living under this tired 20 year Labor government."

[ENDS] 14 March 2012

[somebody]

What do people think happens to the fare money the government collects? Disappears down a black hole never to be seen again?

That is exactly what has happened.

[somebody]

"Under Labor patronage of public transport has stagnated for the last 20 years.

Err, no.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It doesn't have to be set so low so that would happen. What they have to do is design a proper, frequent and reliable public transport network. Something that still hasn't been done. Translink have done bits here and there but sweet FA considering they have been the public transport authority since 2004. Name some of the major improvments on the northside. A bus running after 5.30pm i can't belive they only just did that... Last bus to Warner leaves bray park station at 8.05pm 9 mins before the train from the city arrives... I'll stay in the city longer and travel home when peak is ove..actually, the last connecting bus leaves at 7 meaning I have to travel during peak... They made a bus actually connect with a train.... ooooooohhhhhhhhh big whoopie do. Cut duplicating/competing routes. Figure out what the hell the last improvment for Warner/Bray Park/Lawnton actually was. Beat the hell out of the that operator has to run that route 20km from their depot while this operator has a depot 500m away but can't run it idea. Establish major bus and rail interchanges and actually use what their named after.... INTERCHANGING! Get rid of useless routes like the 314. If people kick up a stick introduce a second teir pt bus service ie Flexilink/a smaller local area bus operator and have the larger buses providing more frequent core/popular routes.

We know it costs alot of money to run public transport but it can get to the point where routes can't have an increased frequency/operating hours/expansion etc because no one wants to pay to use the service because its just too expensive ie $4 for one zone!

[somebody]

Cut duplicating/competing routes.

Beat the hell out of the that operator has to run that route 20km from their depot while this operator has a depot 500m away but can't run it idea.

Get rid of useless routes like the 314.

Yes to these points.

It doesn't have to be set so low so that would happen. What they have to do is design a proper, frequent and reliable public transport network. Something that still hasn't been done. Translink have done bits here and there but sweet FA considering they have been the public transport authority since 2004. Name some of the major improvments on the northside.

BUZ 333, 345, 385, 444, soon to be 330.  Northern region tweak.  That's not all bad is it?  Significant room for improvement though.

Establish major bus and rail interchanges and actually use what their named after.... INTERCHANGING!

So after waiting 29 minutes for my train I then have to wait for a bus?  I can't see where this idea is useful and not already used.

If people kick up a stick introduce a second teir pt bus service ie Flexilink/a smaller local area bus operator and have the larger buses providing more frequent core/popular routes.

Big NO to this one.  Qconnect, TL, "council cabs" it's enough levels.  Some would say one too many.

[#Metro]

The largest barrier to PT usage isn't fares, it's waiting time

To put on more services you need more $$ - regardless of wherever that comes from.

There are around 220 bus routes just within the Brisbane area alone, add in the other regions and you could be easily looking at 300 or so routes to review and fix. STB might have a more accurate number but the bottom line is this - it's a big number.

Is it possible to focus on everything at once? Isn't that an oxymoron, by definition?

This is why completing the Core Frequent Network - the minimum basic network required to connect the suburbs on every main axis on the compass to the CBD and then connect the suburbs to each other is so important. Do all the main rail lines and add a hand full of more BUZ services (400, 359, 245 etc) and there you have it.

What we should be asking, is questions - rather than basking in the glow of the fantasy that we can have cake AND eat it twice - will the LNP commit to completing the CFN under their proposed fare amendments. Will they BUZ the 400, BUZ 245, BUZ 359, do up all the rail lines with frequent service etc.

If the answer is yes, then I'll have no problem with going along with it.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> LNP to halve fare increase

[ozbob]

http://www.candoqld.com.au/policies/lower-the-cost-of-living-by-cutting-waste/fairer-fares-for-commuters

[somebody]

2014 fares for one zone would still be:
Cash: $5.16 (possibly rounded down to $5.10)
Go Card peak: $3.52
Go Card off peak: $2.82

Still ridiculously expensive.

[somebody]

http://www.candoqld.com.au/policies/lower-the-cost-of-living-by-cutting-waste/fairer-fares-for-commuters

LNP Policy Commitments:

    Slash Labor's scheduled 15% fare hikes by half to lower the cost of living and deliver real relief to families and commuters
    Reward regular commuters by reintroducing discounted weekly fares on go cards
    Deliver public transport in South East Queensland that works for commuters by delivering a reliable, frequent and safe network

1) Better than nothing
2) 
3) Very interesting in hearing more detail on this one!

[#Metro]

Oh no, don't bring back weeklies we already have them!
*bangs head*

[Jonno]

2014 fares for one zone would still be:
Cash: $5.16 (possibly rounded down to $5.10)
Go Card peak: $3.52
Go Card off peak: $2.82

Still ridiculously expensive.

Agree totally.

Yes frequency is King, Directness/Speed is Queen and Connectivity/Coverage is the Prince but PT/rail is bubbling around 8-10% of all trips.  This needs to be 50-60% if we are to have a sustainable (econimically, environmentally and socially) transport system.  Every trip from 10% to 60% is costing the tex payer more and more every year 9to the point of bankruptcy), is polluting/damaging our environment and placing further burden on our communities. 

Public transport cannot be viewed as an issolated cost/subsidy model or we might as well shut it down.  When a road needs to be suported all the positives are used to support it and the negatives convieniently forgotten.  The exact opposite happens for PT/rail in most cases.  IA is turning this around.

There is a happy medium between fares and ridership numbers which maximises returns. SEQ is well above thatand returns are reducing.

There should not be a hard linkage between fares and system funding/expansion unless the full cossts/beenfits are considered as it is for CRR.     

[Arnz]

Oh no, don't bring back weeklies we already have them!
*bangs head*

I'm guessing that "Weekly" is the 9-trip then free policy under another word.

[somebody]

Oh no, don't bring back weeklies we already have them!
*bangs head*

I'm guessing that "Weekly" is the 9-trip then free policy under another word.

A possibility.

I guess it's a virtual certainty it will be spun that way once in government.

[ozbob]

Oh no, don't bring back weeklies we already have them!
*bangs head*

In LNP go-speak a discounted weekly = 9 journey cap ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

It doesn't have to be set so low so that would happen. What they have to do is design a proper, frequent and reliable public transport network. Something that still hasn't been done. Translink have done bits here and there but sweet FA considering they have been the public transport authority since 2004. Name some of the major improvments on the northside.

BUZ 333, 345, 385, 444, soon to be 330.  Northern region tweak.  That's not all bad is it?  Significant room for improvement though.

So we have to be greatful that they upgraded/added two potentially three bus routes in 8 years of them making travelling easier?? You could roll a 2km coal train down an embankment because there's that much room for improvement on the northside. And how does one futher out access these buz routes when everything makes their way to the city? Why does the north/east/west of Chermside have such poor coverage with no/hourly/TWO HOURLY routes? (330/340 are pretty much the only 30 min frequency services that go any futher north/feed into the Chermside area). Why doesn't the 335 feed into Boondall station but it does when it forms the 338? Why do buses north of Carseldine stop at 6-7pm when it takes 30 mins to get there from the city? Why does the journey planner say waste two hours of your life by catch a train from Strathpine to the city to get on a bus that takes you 10 mins west of Strathpine just because the sun set? Why is it so difficult to go across (East-West) the northside without making 10 million transfers or going towards the city. They are coming up on 8 years and they have done diddly squat besides intergrated ticketing. Personally I see Translink as a giant waste of miss managed money.

Establish major bus and rail interchanges and actually use what their named after.... INTERCHANGING!

So after waiting 29 minutes for my train I then have to wait for a bus?  I can't see where this idea is useful and not already used.

Translink created that problem themselves by removing the operator rights from the providers and giving everyone an express bus to the city via their front door instead of investing it into heavy rail services, ramping up the frequency and feeding bus routes into it.

[somebody]

Personally I see Translink as a giant waste of miss managed money.

Agree with that.

Some of the problems you refer to are likely largely the fault of BCC/BT.

[Stillwater]

In the LNP's announcement to halve the fare rises over the next two years, we have yet another knee-jerk decision in response to some focus group monitoring that has shown rising PT fares as a voter concern.  The LNP has pulled from the hat another enticement for the electors, but where are all the pieces of the jigsaw?  How do they all fit?

Where is an LNP transport policy and what about the piece of the jigsaw that sits slap bang in the middle - its Cross River Rail solution?  The LNP is eeking out its policy one morsel at a time in order to milk maximum publicity.

The flood inquiry will bring down its findings on Friday, sparking at least 3 days of publicity that will suck the oxygen out of the election campaign.  We are fast running out of time for the major parties to reveal the full detail of its policies.  Really, it is like the dance of the seven veils -- Campbell Newman and Anna Bligh are still covering a lot of the policy flesh.

[#Metro]

Public transport cannot be viewed as an issolated cost/subsidy model or we might as well shut it down.  When a road needs to be suported all the positives are used to support it and the negatives convieniently forgotten.  The exact opposite happens for PT/rail in most cases.  IA is turning this around.

There is a happy medium between fares and ridership numbers which maximises returns. SEQ is well above thatand returns are reducing.

The problem with the PT system in SEQ is that it has the triad of problems

1. High subsidy which makes it hard for governments to want to shell out more money. TransLink is one of the most subsidised, full service PT agencies on Earth.
(I might add that Urban form does NOT explain the discrepancy either - just compare with Canadian systems which have similar urban form - Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary etc)
2. High fares, again some of the highest in the world
3. Low frequency on the core! Rail languishes with low frequency, much of the bus network too.

On the other hand, it is not surprising. If you don't want connections you are choosing to have a high subsidy, high fare taxi service system.

[somebody]

15min frequency will help increase numbers, but will it double?

Might well be quite close to that.  That was the BUZ experience.  Perhaps elasticity of potential rail users will be lower, but how much remains an unknown to us.

[#Metro]

Might well be quite close to that.  That was the BUZ experience.  Perhaps elasticity of potential rail users will be lower, but how much remains an unknown to us.

I think rail will get more pax.
Why?

It's all Class A - BUZ network isn't (except on busways)
There are 85 train stations within the BCC (compared to 22 busways) - more people in the BCC area live near a train station than a busway
Geometric reasons - There is decent two-way travel opportunities on the Ipswich Line, major town centres are on the rail lines

[O_128]

Spectrum of Authority
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/08/a-field-guide-to-transit-quarrels.html

$100 million dollars is equal to 16 BUZ routes  

I'd be happy to pay 15% more in fares in exchange for 16 BUZ routes!!!

You are already, where are the 32 BUZ routes?

Rego is 0% and they get improvements why not PT?

[Jonno]

To double/treble patronage, which is required, requires a whole raft of changes, including and in not particular order:

0. All levels of Govt to accept and public recognise that we have spent 50 years creating today's traffic problems not failing to address them;
1. Planning Principles/Contols to plan for 50-60% of trips to be by public tarnsport not 10-15%;
2. Planning Principles/Contols to plan for 20-30% of trips to be by active transport not 10-15%;
3. Urban design principles that prioritise walking, cycling and public transport over driving
4. Road space and parking only built to cater for the minimum level sof trips than cannot be physciall made using public or active trnasport;
5. No more freeway and tunnel construction;
6. Road capacity converted to public transport (ROW), cycling and pedestrian space;
7. Off-site car parking in commercial centres reduced to zero except for 4 above
8. Public transport fares designed/set to encourage people to think Public Transport as their first/fastest option not last.
9. Rail network upgarded to allow above level of transit, freight and long distance passenger trips;
10. Safe and active urban centres around our major stops
11. 10 min off-peak services each and every day  

[Fares_Fair]

To those fellow long-haul commuters who now have longer journeys and more crowded trains under the last lot of 'improvements', these fare reductions being halved will be welcomed.
They are not concerned with the policy level issues that are widely discussed here.

Some would say not enough given the delays and daily issues that occur and that will continue to do so until the single track is doubled.
IMHO, it's a good compromise that will be welcomed.

Now just need to fix the real problem, the crux of it all, and duplicate the line.
This would make people happy to pay more for a far better service.

[somebody]

Not sure what happened at Oxley and Darra since they 15min,

You'd think it could be publicly released.  But this is Qld.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Some of the problems you refer to are likely largely the fault of BCC/BT.

That might be but I wish translink would pull their finger out and bring BT into line. In saying that the state had their chance to take it off BCC but they screwed it up just like the Nambour duplication project.

[#Metro]

You are already, where are the 32 BUZ routes?Huh?

Rego is 0% and they get improvements why not PT?

Let's be real - cutting funding is going to make more services less likely because $$$ supply went down.
The last few rounds of fare rises have funded the BUZification of BUZ 100, BUZ 120, BUZ 196, BUZ 222, BUZ 412, P88, UQ Lakes improvements and the 590 to the Airport and so forth.

There is no escape from the math

PT funding = subsidy + fares

Cut fares and you have to increase subsidy to maintain status quo levels OR you have to cut or delay improvements to PT services. There is no other way around this, it has to be one of these three. Anything else is fantasy.

And it doesn't matter if the LNP comes out tomorrow and says that under the LNP gravity will cease to exist or 1 + 1 = 3...

[somebody]

Some of the problems you refer to are likely largely the fault of BCC/BT.

That might be but I wish translink would pull their finger out and bring BT into line. In saying that the state had their chance to take it off BCC but they screwed it up just like the Nambour duplication project.

Yeah, that's because they wanted their money.

Let's be real - cutting funding is going to make more services less likely because $$$ supply went down.
The last few rounds of fare rises have funded the BUZification of BUZ 100, BUZ 120, BUZ 196, BUZ 222, BUZ 412, P88, UQ Lakes improvements and so forth.

Yeah, the 222 and P88 are awesome. 

[#Metro]

Yeah, the 222 and P88 are awesome.

You can disagree the way the money was spent, but that in itself doesn't invalidate this:

PT funding = subsidy + fares

It is more of a case to spend the money on better things rather than an argument to cut $$ supply