Redcliffe Peninsula Line [was MBRL (Petrie to Kippa Ring)]

[ozbob]

Often promised, can we do it?

Edit:  Changed name to MBRL

[ozbob]

A local support group for the Redcliffe railway was active ..
http://www.wheresourrailway.org/  with a Qld state election looming they might have another go!   Good on them.

Regards
Ozbob

[richard]

Have we missed the boat on this one?  I understand the proposal is for the line to join the North Coast Line at Petrie.  20 years ago and more that may have been an option, but for a large number of people on the peninsula it may well add to their travel time, which is less acceptable these days.  If the culture for rail travel via Petrie existed, it may have remained viable.  I think the line needs to join the Shorncliffe line somewhere to be viable (a loop from Petrie to Deagon may be an option

richard

[CNsylvester]

I live in Murrumba Downs, see the "where's our railway" placards most places between Petrie and Mango Hill.  Dean Wells had a stall on ANZAC Ave today.  No Placards there to be seen.

There is a Thompsons Bus service that goes from the end of my street (for example) takes me directly to Petrie station, I then catch the express Petrie to Brunswick St (less Northgate & EJ) Its the same fare $4.40 from my street or if I get on a Petrie.  I couldn't ask for anything better.

THe easement around Dohles Rocks Road (murrumba downs) sits there happilly and cut.  Its become very pronounced with the encroaching development around the area.

Culture?  A mix of passing of time, good performance and reasonable fare are the right mix to fix culture type issues.

I was wondering - just what is the blockage is for this proposed railway.  If you or I were appointed Transport Minister tomorrow what would be on the desk that might make you or I hesitate?  I was thinking it could be the lower patronage on the Sandgate Shorncliffe corridor - viability...........

?  

Regards

Ken Mc

[ozbob]

Good question!  What is the blockage?  RAIL Back On Track has just released a media release ( http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=35.0 ) concerning the Petrie Kippa-Ring Railway.  QT originally determined the railway was a practical and necessary project.  It seems political imperiatives have got in the way since.  Appalling!

Original QT report here QT Chapter 4

I have received advice the website http://www.wheresourrailway.org/ (support for the railway) is still active and will be updated shortly.

Best wishes
Ozbob

[ozbob]

Interesting piece today's (21st Nov 2007) Courier Mail  click here!

Petrie-Redcliffe line hopes
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Bernie Dowling, Pine Rivers Press

November 21, 2007 09:15am

Pine Rivers Shire Council has paid $6 million for an old shopping centre site and may use it for a future Petrie-Redcliffe rail link.
The council is being urged to use the old Tulip Town shopping centre site to enhance infrastructure to complement the mooted rail link.

Kallangur realtor Dennis Grant believes the long-desired Petrie-Redcliffe rail link is very much back on the State Government agenda after the announcement of the Redcliffe-Pine Rivers-Caboolture amalgamation into Moreton Bay Regional Council.

``The railway line will run through this site and there could be a Kallangur station as well as a Murrumba Downs station,'' Mr Grant said.

A Queensland Transport spokesman said the State Government was likely to announce its preferred strategy for the Petrie-Redcliffe Transport strategy by mid next year.

[glossyblack]

HI all,
Lived in Redcliffe from 1964-73  and this has to be the longest promise in political history. Then rail could have gone virtually to Marine Parade .. if they wait a bit longer Redcliffe will come to the train?

[Derwan]

I reckon they should branch the Shorncliffe line off after North Boondall, follow the Gateway Motorway and then Deagon Deviation - and include two rail lines in the new Hornibrook Bridge project to deliver rail to Redcliffe. 

[bernied]

The redcliffe Line is not a feasible option. The cost to construct is comparable to every other line but the capacity to increase patronage and economic feasibility is not there. There is no ability for the population to increase as residential density of the area is high, unless high rise developments are approved or Redcliffe becomes a commercial hub (then the residents will have to let big business into their area )

The corridor is better serviced by bus services with dedicate busway to Mango Hill and bus lanes to redclife, with the money spent else including Inner City Cross River Capacity. If after 100 years they still can't deem Redcliffe as a financial viable project, not much will change in the next 100 years

[ozbob]

Hi Bernie,

Welcome!  Thanks for your comments.

The recent opening of the railway to Mandurah in Perth (see http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=728.0 )  has demonstrated that patronage can be a lot more than what initial projections might be. 

We have seen this on other lines in Brisbane too.  Redcliffe has long wanted the rail. I think it might well end up being a dedicated busway though.  There are just too many other priorities at this time. Which is a shame because rail would be the long term sustainable solution IMHO.

Cheers
Ozbob

[Derwan]

Redcliffe has really taken off in the past 10 years or so.  Just take a drive one weekend - it's like the Sunshine Coast.  IMO, there is no need for growth.  The patronage would already be there.

Already many people drive or catch a bus to Sandgate to catch a train.  No doubt some would head to the Caboolture line to have a better choice of services.  I'd say many more would consider catching a train if it was on their doorstep.

[stephenk]

Given that many trains from Petrie are relatively unloaded compared to those coming from the Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove Lines, there should be some available capacity to extend current Petrie services to Redcliffe.

However I still think that a second cross-city tunnel is the most pressing project!

[brad C]

Posted by: stephenk 
Given that many trains from Petrie are relatively unloaded compared to those coming from the Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove Lines, there should be some available capacity to extend current Petrie services to Redcliffe.

A trip in from Petrie in the morning would refute this generalisation - may I suggest the 7.18 service all stops to central.
Breathing room only by Northgate. Or the 7.22 to Ipswich - passengers standing by Strathpine, despite a 7.19 from Caboolture in between.
With additional trackage on the Northern lines, (a sensible deployment of capital funds directed at Rail) there is increased flexibility around express and all stops services with overtaking a common occurrence.
Despite this, services from Caboolture are extremely crowded, whilst those from Petrie vary according to their spacing around express services. Check our timetable.
Needless to say these runs from Petrir perform a valuable sweeper service for intermediate stations, particularly the inner north..

[Mozz]

I have said it often on these forums and have sent corro off to translink/QR about it but have yet to receive a cogent response - I don't know how in this day and age that trains are running with 100, 200 and 300 people over the MAXIMUM safe passenger numbers as articulated by those who build the trains without any mitigation in evidence.

[stephenk]

Posted by: stephenk 
Given that many trains from Petrie are relatively unloaded compared to those coming from the Shorncliffe and Ferny Grove Lines, there should be some available capacity to extend current Petrie services to Redcliffe.

A trip in from Petrie in the morning would refute this generalisation - may I suggest the 7.18 service all stops to central.
Breathing room only by Northgate. Or the 7.22 to Ipswich - passengers standing by Strathpine, despite a 7.19 from Caboolture in between.

Interesting. Observations at Bowen Hills this am between 07:27 and 07:36 saw trains from Ferny Grove, Mitchelton and Shorncliffe with 30-40 standing passengers per car. The ex-Caboolture train had a few standees and a few empty seats. The ex-Petrie train had quite a few empty seats (in fact around 25% empty seats). Maybe Petrie commuters like to have a lie in in the mornings?

[Derwan]

It depends on the service.  I've caught trains a few times from Zillmere.  One time there were several spare seats.  Another time it was already packed and I had to door-hop to board.

[SteelPan]

I believe the SAD FACTS really speak for themselves - QT/QR struggle to get get two bits of wood and bang 'em together when in comes to heavy rail progress in SE Qld.

[kw]

Here is a section from the "History of the Sandgate Railway" published by the Sandgate & District Historical Society & Museum that I thought was quite interesting.

Over the years a lot has been said about a railway line to Redcliffe, in fact the proposal still exists to this date, but the extension in these times is to come from the Petrie area along the Pine River to Kippa Ring and much land had been resumed for the line. However the Telegraph (8/5/1895) reported a discussion at the Sandgate Council Meeting, when Alderman Bell moved ?that this council support the endeavours of the Redcliffe Board to have a trial survey made and an estimate of the cost prepared for a railway to Humpybong from Sandgate?.

The Telegraph (5/8/1895) reported that the Minister for Railways, Hon. R. Philp visited Sandgate to inspect the proposed extension from Sandgate Central (now Sandgate) to Sandgate (now Shorncliffe), and also in regard to the proposed line to Humpybong. In regard to the latter matter, 3 proposals were considered. Brisbane to Humpybong line via North Pine (Petrie); the route via Sandgate and Brighton, with an expensive iron and steel bridge; the third was a branch from North Pine, crossing at Hay?s inlet to Woody Point.

Certain difficulties associated with water crossing related to the necessity to build in iron and steel, as a marine infestation known as ?cobra? would play havoc with wooden piles, while iron and steel would be prohibitive cost wise. As we all know, the upshot was a shelving of the plan for a time, which has extended over 100 years.

Here is a pic of the proposal:

http://members.optuszoo.com.au/gjwagner/redclifferail.jpg


- Kent Wagner

[ozbob]

Fascinating Kent!  Thanks for the post. 

Wish I had a tardis!

Cheers
Ozbob

[glossyblack]

Is this report true to anyone's knowledge "Quote" On the morning of Thursday17th Sep,1998,the P.A. system in car 335 EMU set 35 announced at Virginia on a Beenleigh bound train that "This is a Brisbane Citytrain continuing to Kippa-Ring"apparently repeating this message several times.
This is reported in Transit Australia April 200 edition reported by Rod MIlne.
Maybe it's still a long way off?
Cliff

[joedan]

I read this post about the Kippa Ring message a few weeks ago, however on the Outbound Caboolture train (leaving Central at approx 4:24p.m.) this afternoon running express from Northgate to Petrie, just before Zillmere the announcement came up out of the blue....

"This is a Brisbane Citytrain continuing to Kippa-Ring"

I remembered this post and laughed...

[Andrew]

I think they should stop pussyfooting around and build the damn railway.  The busway proposal is an el-cheapo option because the Government isn't prepared to spend the money to invest well into the future.  I mean, what's the problem?  If travelling time is an issue, make them run limited stops from Petrie to the City.

As for the Kippa-Ring announcement, my understanding is that when the SMU mk1's came in, they had the automated announcement system and Kippa-Ring was one of the pre-programmed stations.  If the driver should accidentely hit the wrong code, it would play that announcement.

[O_128]

Just build it already the land is there so use it.Use 2 lanes of the new hornibrook bridge for rail link  to redcliffe,kipp-ring then continuing to murrumba downs kallangur before linking  with petrie.

[ozbob]

Redcliffe and Bayside Herald 14th January 2009 page 5

Rail link campaigners to fast-track fresh approach

Rail link campaigners to fast-track fresh approach

Rail link campaigners to fast-track fresh approach A NEW grassroots, people's movement is being formed to fight for the Petrie to Kippa-Ring rail link in the wake of government inaction. Led by Commerce and Industry Redcliffe Peninsula (CIRP), the group will aim to fight for the rail link in a bi-partisan and nonpolitical way.

Commerce and Industry Redcliffe Peninsula president Nick Tzimas said the rail link would benefit hundreds of thousands of people on the Peninsula as well as the growth corridor of Kallangur, North Lakes, Murrumba Downs and Deception Bay.

"Without a rail link, these areas willl remain isolated and over reliant on cars for transport. "The railway was first promised to us in 1895 and its been neglected by both sides of politics, isn't it about time that the people got what they need and deserve? "We will not stop fighting until we get a commitment from the State Government regardless of who gets into power at this year's election," Mr Tzimas said.

Fellow rail link crusader, former engineer and president of both Redcliffe Probus and Moreton Bay Regional Branch of the Association of Independent Retirees, Max Barton, said now was the perfect time to push for the rail link because there had never been so much money allocated for infrastructure by both Federal and State Government. "There's been more studies and consultation on this project than on any other rail link extension in South East Queenslandm" Mr Barton said.

To join the rail link action group phone Nick Tzimas on 0438 948 848 or Max Barton on 3203 0246.

[stephenk]

  I mean, what's the problem?  If travelling time is an issue, make them run limited stops from Petrie to the City.

As the Caboolture Line gets busier the number of service patterns will have to be reduced - remember that expresses eat up track capacity. Thus it is likely that Caboolture trains will run express from Petrie, and Petrie trains will be all stations. If the Kippa-Ring line was to built, it is likely that the services would be an extension of current Petrie services, and run all stations.

If travelling time is an issue, maybe people should live closer to where they work!

[Sunbus610]

Quadruplication is certainly required between Northgate and Petrie station over the next 5-10 years to meet heavy demand on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast Line. This was a proposal that was shelved back in the 1970's......hello QG/QR......we are in the 21st century now for goodness sakes.

[Emmie]

There's another problem with increased capacity on the Petrie line - the number of level crossings.  They plan to put in an overpass at Linkfield Rd, but that still leaves others, such as Beams Rd.  As the number of trains per hour increases, the difficulty for traffic flow increases, and because the area is so flat, building overpasses will be expensive.

[ozbob]

February 27, 2009

Transport oriented development will help pay for the future Redcliffe Rail under an LNP Government, it was announced today.

Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Main Roads and Transport Fiona Simpson said: ?For too long Redcliffe residents and workers have put up with inadequate rail and false promises from the Labor Government.?

Ms Simpson said an LNP  Government will establish a Redcliffe Rail Company to maximise returns on development at greenfield station sites in an innovative policy to cross subsidise services and bring the project  to reality.

Together with LNP candidates - Bill Gollan (Redcliffe); Luke Mellers (Pine Rivers); Trevor Ruthenberg (Kallangur); Peter Flannery (Murrumba) ? Ms Simpson made the announcement in Redcliffe.

?The rail line will be built within the first term of an LNP Government if Federal funding is acquired but without this funding, we can still deliver it within a second term,? Ms Simpson said.

?We are not prepared to let this incompetent Labor Government?s mishandling of the State?s finances grind important projects such as this to a halt. However, to responsibly deliver it, it requires innovation such as appropriate private-public-partnerships. This will deliver benefits to commuters and the broader taxpayers of Queensland.

?A State LNP Government will deliver the Redcliffe Rail. Labor?s had 11 years and they?ve failed. It?s time for a change and new thinking to deliver what these communities deserve,? she said.

? What the general public does not realise is that Labor has been  irresponsible with their infrastructure spending, leaving Queenslanders up to $65 billion in State debt with no repayment plan and now a $1.6 billion budget deficit. Our focus is on getting value for money for Queensland taxpayers by delivering better public transport.

?In light of the Queensland ALP Government?s financial crisis and looming multi-billion deficits, this important project cannot be guaranteed for full delivery in the first term. However its future development must be protected so it can be delivered within a second term LNP government.

?There is a real danger than under another term of Labor, the land will be sold.

?Only the LNP can responsibly deliver this project by ensuring the rail corridor and land around identified station hubs is protected from government sell-off and incorporated into a Redcliffe Rail Company for appropriate transport oriented development for when the rail line comes into operation.                                                       

?This will ensure appropriate land uses in the immediate vicinity of the stations are maintained and provide for future cross subsidisation of this important rail link.

?Labor has been flogging off airports. The Redcliff Rail land and associated government land is next unless it is protected. Without this corridor, it would be a disaster for the Moreton Bay Regional and Brisbane North areas which have fought for this link. The LNP will protect this land to deliver and operate the rail and integrated transport services.?

Ms Simpson said other related infrastructure such as the upgrade of the North Pine River Rail Bridge on the North Coast Line was required for this Redcliffe rail link to be able to operate.

? An LNP Government will upgrade this bridge within a second term for the purposes of improved capacity on both the North Coast Line as well as Redcliffe rail link.?

Redcliffe Rail Position Paper

The LNP will:

?         If Federal Funding becomes available for both these two projects (Redcliffe Rail and the North Pine River Rail Bridge upgrade), an LNP Government will bring their construction forward to build within the first term.

?         First term ? Design scope Redcliffe Rail ready for market expressions of interest

?         Set up Redcliffe Rail Company ? to protect the rail corridor from government sell off and to protect Transport Oriented Development around potential stations in order to cross subsidize rail in future

?         Second term ? upgrade the North Pine River Bridge on the North Coast Line to allow capacity for Redcliffe Rail and also other North Coast Line increased patronage

?         Second term ?  BUILD REDCLIFFE RAIL

[O_128]

that's ambitious but it can and should be done. There must be stations at Redcliffe,Kallangur and Mango hill/North lakes at least.Also im guessing that petrie and northgate would have to be upgraded to 6 platforms. This means taht the vally should also get 2 more and  central will need platforms 7  and 8 to cope with the new sping field and redcliffe  lines if they ever get built

[Jon Bryant]

Interested in others views on proposing the Redcliffe line (I know it is a 100 year old promise) is joined to the Shorncliffe line to make a loop?  This loop would allow people to move around the northern part of the city quickly and efficiently.   

[Emmie]

A good idea!

Interested in others views on proposing the Redcliffe line (I know it is a 100 year old promise) is joined to the Shorncliffe line to make a loop?  This loop would allow people to move around the northern part of the city quickly and efficiently.  

I'd support this.  The heavy pressure on the Petrie line would be made much worse by an extension to Kippa-ring and Redcliffe.  An extension of the Shorncliffe line could work - there's a lot of land between Sandgate/Deagon and Redcliffe that is already in government hands, the land is flat, and if you run the line across Hayes Inlet further upstream, this would not be a major engineering feat.

If this became a loop - running in one direction for at least part of the way - then it would involve less duplication of track, too.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Petrie to Kippa-Ring rail link plan revived

Petrie to Kippa-Ring rail link plan revived
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Craig Johnstone

June 26, 2009 12:00am

THE Bligh Government and Moreton Bay Regional Council have revived plans to build the long-awaited Petrie to Kippa-Ring rail link, one of the major missing pieces of infrastructure in southeast Queensland.

The Government and council will jointly fund a push to get the $880 million project "shovel ready" so it can receive support from Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's multibillion-dollar Infrastructure Australia fund.

They will spend $4 million on drawing up a business case and design plan for the railway, which has been promised by successive governments for decades but never been delivered.

The Government dropped plans to build the link five years ago after a study suggested it would be unviable and during the March election campaign ridiculed an Opposition promise to construct the railway.

However, Moreton Bay Mayor Allan Sutherland has continued to lobby for the project, insisting that the rapidly growing communities north of Brisbane needed better public transport links.

"Petrie, Kallangur, Mango Hill, North Lakes and Rothwell are some of Australia's fastest growing and most car-reliant suburbs, so I am pleased we can work together to get this project shovel ready," he said.

The Translink transit authority has recently spent more than $1.5 million on another study into the project which suggested the line would be so popular that services would have to run express from Petrie into the city.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan wrote to Cr Sutherland last week confirming the state would contribute $2 million to the development of a "business case and implementation plan" for the Redcliffe link.

Moreton Bay Regional Council will also contribute $2 million to the project.

She said that the Government and the council should develop a "memorandum of understanding" to plan the project "with a view to developing a business case by early 2010".

Cr Sutherland has already informed Mr Rudd and Infrastructure Minister Anthony Albanese of his move to revive the rail project.

He is expected to reveal the plan in today's Moreton Bay Regional Council budget.

[ozbob]

http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?board=19.0

RAIL Back On Track
Media Release  20 August 2006
Petrie to Kippa-Ring Railway

RAIL - Back On Track ( http://backontrack.org )   a web based community organisation for the promotion of rail throughout Australia has called for the commencement of construction for the long awaited railway to the Redcliffe peninsular.

On behalf of RAIL Back On Track, Robert Dow said: "There is a need to provide sustainable solutions to public transport from Petrie to Kippa-Ring.  Despite initial reports by Queensland Transport strongly endorsing an extension of the suburban rail network from Petrie to Kippa-Ring, no progress has been made with the railway.  Bus solutions will not provide for the projected growth along the transport corridor, and will only add to the general traffic congestion in the area.

Looming energy crises will force future rapid and excessively expensive development of rail solutions. A 'smart state' moves forwards today!   

We call on the Government to make a commitment to stop the nonsense, and follow the initial advice of Queensland Transport and commence construction of the railway immediately."

Contact:

admin@backontrack.org 
Administration RAIL Back On Track

[longboi]

So first it is completely unviable, now it is necessary? Talk about spin. I think for now the Redcliffe/North Lakes area could cope quite well with two high-frequency BUZ services to Petrie and Sandgate. Instead of spending money on rail to Kippa-Ring, these funds could be better utilised increasing inner-city rail capacity and introducing 15-minute frequencies on the Ferny Grove, Caboolture, Beenleigh and Ipswich lines.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Information super railway?

Information super railway?
Tony Moore
June 26, 2009 - 12:03PM

High speed internet along Brisbane's proposed new rail line from Petrie to Kippa Ring should attract future industries and make the project more viable, Shadow Transport spokesperson Fiona Simpson said this morning.

Ms Simpson said government-owned land in the area should be quarantined to allow the project to move ahead quickly.

"We took a policy to the last election to quarantine the corridor and government-owned land around the rail and other transport corridors in the first term in order to ensure that a future Redcliffe rail line could be based upon a more integrated land use model which helped cross-subsidise public transport," Ms Simpson said.

She said rail lines traditionally had access to high-speed internet, which could be used to attract business to the area.

"The greenfield sites around the public transport sites  have to start working for government and the public, " Ms Simpson said.

"So rather than just putting in a transport line and everybody gets on the station and off they go, it is time to actually build - around the stations - actual job nodes."

She said it was acknowledged the rail lines had access to good technology which could be used to foster businesses close to stations.

"Rail lines have some of the fastest speed internet in Queensland as part of their infrastructure.

"You can actually build your development around it and some of the benefit of the development should flow back to the public."

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan this morning confirmed the State Government would tip in $2 million to match the $2 million from Moreton Bay Regional Council to formulate a business case.

"This is a good example of different levels of government working together, with $2m each from council and the state," she said.

Ms Nolan said the State Government had included the project in its 10-year planning, but the business case could help attract future federal government funds.

"Our commitment to this project is exactly as we stated before the election: it's in our future infrastructure plan for delivery between 2019-26," she said.

"But this work will mean that if future Federal stimulus funding becomes available, the project will be ready to go."

The Opposition promised before the March State Election to have the line in place by 2016.

No route has been identified, although Moreton Bay Regional Council Mayor Allan Sutherland will outline the overall concept in the council's Budget at noon.

Kippa Ring is several kilometres inland from Redcliffe's Anzac Avenue, while Petrie station on the Caboolture line, would be where the proposed rail spur would run towards the coast.

It would run through Murrumba Downs and Mango Hill to Kippa Ring.

[Markus]

Crikey here we go again. Rail yes, but upset about there apparent about face.

IF they are serious id want the "spur" rail to be going SOMEWHERE, on its OWN set of tracks. Not sharing!

LETS NOT AFFECT OTHER RAIL TRAFFIC.

Hows that guys & Government.

[O_128]

Il beleive it when i see it

[longboi]

Crikey here we go again. Rail yes, but upset about there apparent about face.

IF they are serious id want the "spur" rail to be going SOMEWHERE, on its OWN set of tracks. Not sharing!

LETS NOT AFFECT OTHER RAIL TRAFFIC.

Hows that guys & Government.

Uhh what are you talking about?

[david]

I think he means that there should be a 4th track from Northgate to Petrie to service any new Kippa-Ring line

[Sunbus610]

I think he means that there should be a 4th track from Northgate to Petrie to service any new Kippa-Ring line

I'm pretty sure this was proposed years ago, check out the creek crossings just north of Virginia and Zillmere railway stations.