• Welcome to RAIL - Back On Track Forum.
 

The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

Started by Fares_Fair, August 31, 2011, 22:23:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

I have been asked to contribute interesting and informative articles for the Sunshine Valley Gazette on rail and commuter matters, from time to time.
It is a privilege to do so.


Sunshine Valley Gazette
Wednesday 2 December 2020, p23

By Jeff Addison
Sunshine Coast Commuter Advocate
Sunshine Coast Spokesperson Rail Back on Track

Hard copy published version

The Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade (B2N). Unravelling the spin


QuoteWhat do you think the Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade (B2N) actually is?
If you thought it was full rail duplication to Nambour, you have been sadly dis-track't-ed.

The problem is borne out of the limited funding for the 122.6km Sunshine Coast line from Caboolture to Gympie North (and all part of the North Coast Line) and it's enmeshed in the 80/20 federal/state funding squabble that continues to this day.
You may recall that I did an Opinion Piece on this in the SVG (August 26, 2020 p20).
[The original project cost was $780 million, the state contributed $160.8 million (20%) and the commonwealth contributed $390 million (50%), leaving it 30% short-changed. This was the first time in history that our Sunshine Coast rail received federal funding. Public transport, including rail, is primarily the responsibility of the state.]

In actuality, today's short-changed project comprises just 13.8km of rail duplication from Beerburrum to Glasshouse Mountains to (1.5km north) Beerwah.
Yep, it's just two and a bit stations long for a $550.8 million price tag.
The dual tracks stop shy of where the 20 year long-proposed CAMCOS heavy rail corridor is planned to branch off.

The current project could best be known as the Beerburrum to Woombye Rail Upgrade (B2W) IF you include the proposed passing loop extensions at Landsborough, Eudlo and Woombye.
Unfortunately, those passing loop extensions (which will improve freight) are only included in the stage 2 works – and there is not one dollar allocated to stage 2 at this point in time.
[Refer: Catch 22 funding squabble above].
That said, these passing loop extensions MUST be done on an improved alignment or else they will lock in the current tortuous alignment for decades to come.

Thus, there will be NO freight improvements under this current stage 1 rail plan.
The 2016 Business Case (BC) says there will be a 3 minute travel time saving for commuters from Caboolture to Nambour, but that was when the #2tracks actually went to Landsborough.

It seems futile explaining that the shortest rail passing loop in the entire 1668km North Coast Line (NCL) is located at Palmwoods – because it's not slated to be extended.
That loop is 683m long and can only accommodate a freight train up to 650m long. The problem for the NCL being that Queensland should have freight trains 1500m long. But I digress.

The B2N Rail Upgrade according to the 2016 BC was a $780 million (around 20km) 'rail' project, comprising road re-alignments, road over rail overpasses and carpark (park 'n' ride) expansions at Beerburrum, Landsborough, Palmwoods and Nambour. The carparks are to cope with the expected passenger demand by 2036.
The bus interchange at Landsborough is a new addition to the works, not mentioned in the 2016 BC.

Here are some gems from that 2016 Business Case on what is needed:
'Duplication of the Beerburrum to Nambour section of the North Coast line is explicitly mentioned in this strategy as a key transport investment priority and is expected to contribute to achieving the objective of expanding the use of rail freight through improving the efficiency, availability and capacity of the freight paths on the North Coast line.' or this beauty;

'Freight demand By 2023, currently available operator-preferred freight paths on the North Coast line will be at capacity and from this point onwards, additional freight will have to travel via road, given the insufficient availability of train paths between Beerburrum and Nambour.'

I am in favour of calling stage 1 of the project the 'Beerburrum to Beerwah Rail Upgrade' (B2B) with lots of roadworks and carparks (needed by 2036).
Meanwhile the freight task which has a 2023 deadline gets put on the funding back-burner.
It calls into question the expertise of the decision-makers.

The Bruce Highway is being upgraded for 6 lanes from Caboolture to the Sunshine Motorway, Mooloolaba and rest assured those extra lanes will soon be taken up by more cars and an even whole lot more B-double semi-trailers from 2023.
I usually say 'safe travels' or 'stay safe' to friends on road trips.
From 2023, that is about to become much more difficult.


Here is another warning from the 2016 Business Case (my emphasis in bold as always);

'The demand analysis implies that by 2023 rail demand will exceed capacity resulting in additional freight needing to travel by road.
This would increase congestion on the Bruce Highway and increase the likelihood of road safety incidents
.
It is estimated that without the B2N (Stage 2) project there would be an additional 497 truck trips each week on the Bruce Highway by 2036.'


Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

Interview  2nd December 2020

ABC Sunshine Coast Breakfast Host Robert Blackmore and Sunshine Coast RBoT Rep Jeff Addison

Discussion re Budget 2020-21 and Sunshine Coast rail.

> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcsc/abcsc_ja2dec20.mp3  MP3  13 MB
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Nambour train station disability access upgrade, officially opened.
September 2017

"A multi-million-dollar accessibility upgrade is now complete at Nambour station and was officially opened today by Jackie Trad, Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport and Peter Wellington MP Member for Nicklin.

Jackie Trad said the Palaszczuk Government's Nambour station upgrade created 250 jobs and was part of the Labor Government's $212 million program to make rail travel more accessible for all.

Here are the highlights of the media conference where she discussed the need and history of the project and we wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't get an update on the Sunshine Coast Rail duplication."



Some interesting comments made in this recording ...
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

Fares_Fair

Indeed.
Rail duplication needed to start by 2020.. (talking of the Beerburrum to Landsborough $780m works).
Federal funding opportunities..
Stations heavily patronised by people with disabilities..
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Quote from: ozbob on December 03, 2020, 04:35:31 AM
Nambour train station disability access upgrade, officially opened.
September 2017

"A multi-million-dollar accessibility upgrade is now complete at Nambour station and was officially opened today by Jackie Trad, Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport and Peter Wellington MP Member for Nicklin.

Jackie Trad said the Palaszczuk Government's Nambour station upgrade created 250 jobs and was part of the Labor Government's $212 million program to make rail travel more accessible for all.

Here are the highlights of the media conference where she discussed the need and history of the project and we wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't get an update on the Sunshine Coast Rail duplication."



Some interesting comments made in this recording ...

Concur
Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

Don't let TMR know now OK?

> https://web.archive.org/web/20130502150453/http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/L/Landsborough-to-Nambour-Rail-Corridor-Study.aspx#media-gallery
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

HappyTrainGuy

Quote from: ozbob on December 03, 2020, 08:09:20 AM
Don't let TMR know now OK?

> https://web.archive.org/web/20130502150453/http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/L/Landsborough-to-Nambour-Rail-Corridor-Study.aspx#media-gallery

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on December 02, 2020, 11:44:39 AM
Such a botched plan compared to the same project 14 years ago.

Stillwater

These studies hang around for so long without being implemented or activated that the bureaucrats have the excuse to say the (previous) study is obsolete and a new one is required to conform with 'changed circumstances' ... or some other nonsense. They get to have their job sustained by doing yet another study and the pollies get to say: "There is a new study underway and it would be foolish for me to make any comment until I have all the facts. I want to be informed by the new study so we can proceed with this important project certain we have the correct plan and latest costings."

And so the wheel turns.

Fares_Fair

I have found that the old studies reinforce the more recent one's.
In fact the situation tends to be even more grim SW.
How they tackle it is the new (half-baked) black.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

The progressive decay of this project  is nothing short of appalling.

Successive impotent Governments aided by an equally feared incompetent bureaucracy is a great tragedy for Queensland.

What's left?  A half baked duplication Beerburrum to Beerwah North, and some park 'n' rides.

Until TMR gets out of its anti-rail bias position there is little hope.  TMR managed rail projects will continue to be half baked failures.

CRR has been reduced to a poor outcome project by similar processes.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

Fares_Fair

I was asked my opinion on the time-savings.

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1334618001367130118]=https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1334618001367130118]https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1334618001367130118

This is a new media group concentrating on Sunshine Coast issues and news.
It is free and you can subscribe for a regular daily email.
Their Twitter feed/link is not yet up and running.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Quote from: Fares_Fair on November 20, 2020, 13:51:37 PM
The proposed recreation trail is from Beerburrum to Landsborough

and... further to the above

We had our second meeting of the B2N CRG-North group last night.
They are good forums and I commend TMR on their program.

We were shown a coloured satellite image map of the proposed recreation trail.
The map was on paper, literally at least 6m in length (in two parts) showing Beerburrum to Landsborough.

I noticed the cost was shown as $6.5 million (of that, $400k is for planning)
I thought that looked like a great deal, 17km, so I asked how long the $6.5 million would include?

Answer: The proposed (funded) recreation trail goes from Glass House Mountains to Beerwah (5.1km)
You gotta start somewhere I guess, why not in the middle.  :)

Always ask questions, people.

It is certainly a good concept.
It would be lovely to connect all the railway towns along the route.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Since my request on the forum website wouldn't work, I was advised to email the team. Tonight I have done so.

Hello Community Engagement Team,

I have tried asking a question on the forum and it tells me that there is a banned word in my question.
I have attached a screen shot for reference.
If you could also please advise why or what words are banned.
Thank you.

The question was as follows:
Why does the stage 1 rail duplication stop around 4km short of Landsborough and was this approved by Queensland Rail?

Provide detailed information relating to your question.
The current B2N plan has the rail duplication stopping just shy of where the proposed CAMCOS rail line would peel off north of Beerwah.
I understand Queensland Rails preference has always been to continue duplication to Landsborough (North) for optimal benefit.
I have read that the benefits of increased capacity are not fully realized until rail duplication reaches Landsborough.
There's no funding for stage 2 works so best to build the rail properly now in case no further funding eventuates.

Kind regards,

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Last night I learned from a local Woombye resident that the sound barrier (buffer) wall built to shield residents from excess noise from the Rail Stabling Yard, is killing birds.
There is a clear (but framed) perspex window along the top of the wall.

The resident told me that he had collected at least 50 dead birds since the barrier was erected in 2016.
He described to me, and I identified by pictures; Pale-headed Rosella's; King Parrots, Rainbow Lorikeets and Scarlet Honeyeater's as just a few of the species being killed.

His neighbour's cat has also feasted (removed) many of them by the morning light (finding only feathers).

I have written to the TMR CRG North team Culture and Environment Officer about this and asked her to direct my email to whom-ever is appropriate (at Queensland Rail?).
Regards,
Fares_Fair


verbatim9

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 06, 2020, 22:28:31 PM
Last night I learned from a local Woombye resident that the sound barrier (buffer) wall built to shield residents from excess noise from the Rail Stabling Yard, is killing birds.
There is a clear (but framed) perspex window along the top of the wall.

The resident told me that he had collected at least 50 dead birds since the barrier was erected in 2016.
He described to me, and I identified by pictures; Pale-headed Rosella's; King Parrots and Scarlet Honeyeater's as just a few of the species being killed.

His neighbour's cat has also feasted (removed) many of them by the morning light (finding only feathers).

I have written to the TMR CRG North team Culture and Environment Officer about this and asked her to direct my email to whom-ever is appropriate (at Queensland Rail?).
They should of built a stabling shed to house the trains with rioof top exhaust for air flow. May have alleviated many issues

Sent from my moto g(6) plus using Tapatalk


HappyTrainGuy

Running ac isn't the noise. Its the other infrastructure and the movement of rollingstock creating the noise such as wheel flange noise, brakes, vacuums for decanting and safeworking procedures. After a while you don't even notice it :P

Fares_Fair

The sound issue is yet to be determined.

I enacted some drive-bys last night throughout Woombye with listening tours at various locations to see if I can detect the source of the annoying sound.
There was a continuous, what I would describe as 'droning' noise occurring.
I could not hear it from the gated entrance to the Rail Stabling Yard.

I could hear it clearly from the residents back yard.
He invited me onto the property to listen. This was at 10pm.

A nearby resident told me the noise was like that pretty well 24/7.
He also said that he could hear the A/C compressors releasing pressure every so often and that that was louder than the constant 'drone'.
The trains are not being placed in air conditioning 'stabling mode' due to the mould and odour issue with the NGR trains.
On weekends the 4 parked NGR trains are not used in service (local resident reported this to me) and are left with A/C units running constantly.

I was at a meeting with TMR and QR where we were told by a senior TMR manager that it would likely be resolved in two months (i.e. by September 2020).
The meeting was held in July 2018.
It is now December and the issue is still not resolved!

This will boil over.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 04, 2020, 22:32:02 PM
Quote from: Fares_Fair on November 20, 2020, 13:51:37 PM
The proposed recreation trail is from Beerburrum to Landsborough

and... further to the above

We had our second meeting of the B2N CRG-North group last night.
They are good forums and I commend TMR on their program.

We were shown a coloured satellite image map of the proposed recreation trail.
The map was on paper, literally at least 6m in length (in two parts) showing Beerburrum to Landsborough.

I noticed the cost was shown as $6.5 million (of that, $400k is for planning)
I thought that looked like a great deal, 17km, so I asked how long the $6.5 million would include?

Answer: The proposed (funded) recreation trail goes from Glass House Mountains to Beerwah (5.1km)
You gotta start somewhere I guess, why not in the middle.  :)

Always ask questions, people.

It is certainly a good concept.
It would be lovely to connect all the railway towns along the route.

As part of the CRG-North, I have asked to view the proposed stage 2 works, in particular the passing loop extensions at Landsborough, Eudlo and Woombye.
A meeting with TMR to view these proposed works has been arranged for this Friday 11 December.
Thank you TMR  :)
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 06, 2020, 22:28:31 PM
Last night I learned from a local Woombye resident that the sound barrier (buffer) wall built to shield residents from excess noise from the Rail Stabling Yard, is killing birds.
There is a clear (but framed) perspex window along the top of the wall.

The resident told me that he had collected at least 50 dead birds since the barrier was erected in 2016.
He described to me, and I identified by pictures; Pale-headed Rosella's; King Parrots, Rainbow Lorikeets and Scarlet Honeyeater's as just a few of the species being killed.

His neighbour's cat has also feasted (removed) many of them by the morning light (finding only feathers).

I have written to the TMR CRG North team Culture and Environment Officer about this and asked her to direct my email to whom-ever is appropriate (at Queensland Rail?).

My message has been received and will be passed onto Queensland Rail.
Perhaps some simple weatherproof decals may help deter the avian carnage.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 06, 2020, 22:54:26 PM
The sound issue is yet to be determined.

I enacted some drive-bys last night throughout Woombye with listening tours at various locations to see if I can detect the source of the annoying sound.
There was a continuous, what I would describe as 'droning' noise occurring.
I could not hear it from the gated entrance to the Rail Stabling Yard.

I could hear it clearly from the residents back yard.
He invited me onto the property to listen. This was at 10pm.

A nearby resident told me the noise was like that pretty well 24/7.
He also said that he could hear the A/C compressors releasing pressure every so often and that that was louder than the constant 'drone'.
The trains are not being placed in air conditioning 'stabling mode' due to the mould and odour issue with the NGR trains.
On weekends the 4 parked NGR trains are not used in service (local resident reported this to me) and are left with A/C units running constantly.

I was at a meeting with TMR and QR where we were told by a senior TMR manager that it would likely be resolved in two months (i.e. by September 2020).
The meeting was held in July 2018.
It is now December and the issue is still not resolved!

This will boil over.

Moved to Sunshine Coast Line - stabling
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Estimates in Queensland Parliament tomorrow for Transport and Main Roads and the Minister, the Hon Mark Bailey MP.  :)
Regards,
Fares_Fair



Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X  Threads  Mastodon  BlueSky

Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair



Fares_Fair

Hmm, do I prefer less services or more services?
As any #publictransport user, do I prefer less options or more options?

Do the people in 'the hills' deserve better services? or not?
Does freight deserve to be free of limiting bottlenecks, or not?
Do people north of Nambour deserve anything better at all? or should they just drive and clog up the highway?


It's a tough one.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Fares_Fair

Regards,
Fares_Fair


Gazza

Quote from: Fares_Fair on December 16, 2020, 16:02:01 PM
Hmm, do I prefer less services or more services?
As any #publictransport user, do I prefer less options or more options?

Do the people in 'the hills' deserve better services? or not?
Does freight deserve to be free of limiting bottlenecks, or not?
Do people north of Nambour deserve anything better at all? or should they just drive and clog up the highway?


It's a tough one.

Its a genuine question.

The new timetable has more train services, including an additional Gympielander at the expense of railbuses, and it's more clockface. It also saw the elimination of all shuttles, so it means having to ride all stops from Caboolture is a thing of the past.


Do you care about the loss of railbuses if everyone avoided them like the plague anyway?

So to sum up, there are more trains now, they all go full length into Brisbane, so service Kilometers is much higher.


Anyway you're avoiding the question..... would you like to see a return to the 2014 timetable, yay or nay?

Gazza

Im not even sure why you went off on a tangent about freight and people in the hills.

Basically, the current timetable has less services, but the services that do exist are worth more than the old ones in my opinion, and would meet the needs of travellers better.

Anecdotally, I had a similar fate during the original sector 1 rollout.

My home station was Corinda, and it had a mixture of all stops and express services, with gaps between services ranging between 8 minutes and 2 minutes.

Under the new timetable, Corinda lost it's express services, and got less trains overall, but everything was Spaced at an even 6 min frequency, so I found the new timetable table much more useful.

Fares_Fair

I'm sure you don't, I got tired of the inferences, including about 'people in the hills' .. devalueing people because they are not of value in your population only world view. Which you are entitled to.
Secondly, nor is freight off target'. It is inextricably tied to it, to services.
I answered your question with questions.
Not sure why you didn't pick that up.

My impression, rightly or wrongly is that you just appear to troll our #SunshineCoast North Coast Line.
I could ask how the buses are in the western suburbs - but they are not of real concern to me, so I won't.

With broken promises, multiple times for extra trains and essentially forcing people onto the roads with sub-standard level of service for our region.
And you seemingly always dissing what little we have.
My patience is gone.

We should have more trains.
We should have better frequency.
We need incentive, not disincentive to use rail.
Our services are well degraded and reduced compared to population.




Regards,
Fares_Fair


Gazza

I do believe in better services to the Sunshine Coast, just that funding should be split between getting some of CAMCOS built (Rail closer to the people) as well as upgrades to the existing line, not just focusing solely on freight between Landsborough and Nambour

Anyway, the thrust of my original post was in response to your tweet.

360 services per week 2014 versus 325 today.
Which is obscuring things a bit because it weights a railbus to Caboolture on par with an express train to Roma St, even though you were asking for more trains and less railbuses at the time of the timetable change.

Questioning things you post, asking questions or disagreeing isn't "trolling".
You'll note it's not just the Sunshine coast board I post in.

Fares_Fair

Sunshine Coast line trains are returning to normal schedule between Nambour and Yandina stations after an earlier track fault. https://t.co/czDmFsKnou #TLAlert #TLSunshinecoastline
Regards,
Fares_Fair


JimmyP

I'd quite honestly like to know your preference as well Fares_Fair, as to which timetable you prefer between the '14 and current one.

Both have their upsides and downsides. While the current timetable has less overall services, they are generally much better quality (more rail services, less railbus services), all rail services run through to the City and all are express.
'14 timetable has more overall services, but much lower quality (less rail, more railbus), less express services with numerous shuttles connecting to all stations Caboolture trains, meaning longer travel times.

The Sunny Coast definitely warrants more and better services, no doubt about it, but it's a genuine question about the current circumstances and what is more preferable, from the point of view of someone who uses the line.

🡱 🡳