Go Card Refunds

[somebody]

Was thinking that there is a need for cash refunds for the Go Card especially for tourists, and you know what?  There already is such an option.  Unfortunately it is not available at the Domestic or International Terminal, which seems something of a limitation, and it is also unavailable at the Gold Coast Airport.

Links: http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/refunds
Locations: http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/locations/search?service=refund&region=any&suburb[]=Brisbane+%28city%29&cardType=any&submitButton=Search+retailers

It is not at all easy to find on the Translink website.  Maybe there is a need for Translink to promote Go Card use and then refunds for Tourists.

[Mozz]

Another issue for gocard refunds for tourists (particularly international tourists who probably aren't coming back to Brisbane) who inadvertently or mistakenly have issues with the touch on touch off concept of the gocard - if you are in Brisbane/SEQ for 1-3 days and have a go card and need to call translink for a reversal of a penalty fare of $10, or multiple penalty fares as you get used to the method of operation, and it takes up to 10 days for Translink to process where does that leave the tourist?

[ozbob]

There is a fairly simple solution to the tourist ticketing issue.  As the system is being progressively closed, having a go card is a plus to get through the gates etc.  Just introduce a go card that operates essentially on a fixed cost say for 3 or 7 days. This card is activated  for a fixed period from first use.  If not used to touch off no fixed fares.  So if new users mess it up no problem.  They have paid say $100 for three days unrestricted travel.  It could incorporate a journey to and from the airport and unrestricted public transport use on the network.  It could be a very distinctive stylised go card.

[somebody]

That'd probably be OK if it included two Airtrain trips and a deposit for the card itself.  However, for people entering SEQ another way that wouldn't be fair.  Without paying for the Airtrain, the price/day would need to be more expensive than the return peak trip to Nambour.

[Derwan]

Semantics aside, a "fixed price" Go Card sounds like a great idea.  Tourists do a lot for the economy.  If we give them unlimited public transport for a reasonable price (or perhaps even free), it means they can visit more places and will have more money to spend at those places.  It's a win-win.

A card deposit would only be required if the cards are going to be reused.  (I'm not sure that would happen.)

[somebody]

A card deposit would only be required if the cards are going to be reused.  (I'm not sure that would happen.)

I'm assuming that they would as the cards aren't free to make.

Although I think there are more issues to iron out than "semantics".  I don't like your suggestion of giving tourists free travel.  Surely the purpose of getting tourists to visit is to get them to spend money?  And how will you stop residents from using it?

[Derwan]

I don't like your suggestion of giving tourists free travel.  Surely the purpose of getting tourists to visit is to get them to spend money?  And how will you stop residents from using it?

Spend money on local businesses - yes... not hand money to the government.  It wasn't a suggestion as such... just an idea that could potentially encourage even more tourists to come to Brissy and allow them to spend more money at local businesses.

The card would be available for tourists only.  I'm not sure how this could/would happen.  Some ideas include them paying for it (or requesting it) via their travel agent if they use one, card issued only on showing their tourist visa, etc.  Local (i.e. within Australia) tourists might be a bit harder to identify,  but that's the general gist.  It may just be a case of having ID that shows that they're not a Brisbane/SEQ resident.  Then just like students/concession, they'd have to have ID during ticket checks so the TO's can confirm that they're not Brisbane residents.  (I.e. Friend from out of town buys one for his Brisbane mate.)

These are all semantics that could be worked through.

[somebody]

These are all semantics that could be worked through.

Probably not in a water tight way.  I have lived for quite a while here being able to "prove" that I live somewhere else.  Numerous holders of foreign passports live elsewhere.  I'm not sure how you will stop these people from applying at least once.  Perhaps you could restrict it by recording their details.  Ask for a departure itinerary.

And why would you want to?  Stop them contributing to government coffers?  Doesn't make sense.  I also don't follow why you are distinguishing from spending money on local businesses or contributing to government coffers.

In short, why bother?

[Derwan]

Probably not in a water tight way.  I have lived for quite a while here being able to "prove" that I live somewhere else.  Numerous holders of foreign passports live elsewhere.  I'm not sure how you will stop these people from applying at least once.  Perhaps you could restrict it by recording their details.  Ask for a departure itinerary.

There will always be fraudsters and fare evaders.  The fact that some people might do the wrong thing shouldn't be a deterrent from implementing something that's based on most people doing the right thing.

And why would you want to?  Stop them contributing to government coffers?  Doesn't make sense.  I also don't follow why you are distinguishing from spending money on local businesses or contributing to government coffers.

In short, why bother?

The government spends millions on attracting tourists.  Think of it as another "advertisement" for tourism.  Like I said - it's just an idea I was putting out there... not necessarily something I think we should or shouldn't push for. 

[somebody]

BNE airport has a $38 departure tax included in the cost of airfares.  That is something which is more likely to be included in people's pricing of the trip than the concept of free PT.  Is that enough to end this "free fare" idea?  Sorry to be harsh.

[SurfRail]

The easiest way is to do what Perth does.  Their unlimited daily ticket is not available for sale until after the morning peak is virtually finished.

[Derwan]

BNE airport has a $38 departure tax included in the cost of airfares.  That is something which is more likely to be included in people's pricing of the trip than the concept of free PT.  Is that enough to end this "free fare" idea?  Sorry to be harsh.

No.  BNE is a private company.

It's just an idea.  Disagree with it as much as you want.  Doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.  It's just your opinion.  And you're just one person.  Sorry to be harsh. 

[Golliwog]

Just having a think on this one. If the Airport fare is $15 which is the same whether you use go card or paper ticket, then why don't they encourage those heading to the airport to exit the station at say Central, use the ticket office to refund their go card then buy a paper ticket and head off to the airport? Unless they're coming from the Gold Coast, they're going to have to change trains anyway.

[somebody]

BNE airport has a $38 departure tax included in the cost of airfares.  That is something which is more likely to be included in people's pricing of the trip than the concept of free PT.  Is that enough to end this "free fare" idea?  Sorry to be harsh.

No.  BNE is a private company.

It's just an idea.  Disagree with it as much as you want.  Doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.  It's just your opinion.  And you're just one person.  Sorry to be harsh. 

Looks like I was referring to out of date info.  It's now $47, and on all international departures from Australia.  Here's a link: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/airlines-blast-dishonest-exit-tax/story-e6frg95x-1111118457091

Should have included the link before!  It's not confined to BNE, it's Australia wide.

Unless they're coming from the Gold Coast, they're going to have to change trains anyway.

That is something of a problem though.  Similarly if they are going to the Gold Coast Airport.

[david]

Does anyone know if the ticket offices at the International and Domestic Airports can actually process refunds/even sell go cards? If not, the question needs to be asked - why not?

If so, perhaps a bit more signage is needed to let tourists know about the go card.

[somebody]

Does anyone know if the ticket offices at the International and Domestic Airports can actually process refunds/even sell go cards? If not, the question needs to be asked - why not?

If so, perhaps a bit more signage is needed to let tourists know about the go card.

According to the TL website, they cannot.  Neither is there a refund outlet at the Gold Coast Airport.

[mufreight]

Does anyone know if the ticket offices at the International and Domestic Airports can actually process refunds/even sell go cards? If not, the question needs to be asked - why not?

If so, perhaps a bit more signage is needed to let tourists know about the go card.

According to the TL website, they cannot.  Neither is there a refund outlet at the Gold Coast Airport.

According to Translink they can do nothing about anything, the question that should be being asked is WHY NOT ?
The answer is relatively simple.
Modify the AVM machines so that they can read the card when the card is inserted into a refund slot which then pays out the balance retained on the card and retains the card, this could be limited to a fixed figure of perhaps $40 and would be avaliable at locations such as the airport terminals, the interstate rail platform and the Transit Centre bus terminal.

[somebody]

Does anyone know if the ticket offices at the International and Domestic Airports can actually process refunds/even sell go cards? If not, the question needs to be asked - why not?

If so, perhaps a bit more signage is needed to let tourists know about the go card.

According to the TL website, they cannot.  Neither is there a refund outlet at the Gold Coast Airport.

According to Translink they can do nothing about anything, the question that should be being asked is WHY NOT ?
The answer is relatively simple.
Modify the AVM machines so that they can read the card when the card is inserted into a refund slot which then pays out the balance retained on the card and retains the card, this could be limited to a fixed figure of perhaps $40 and would be avaliable at locations such as the airport terminals, the interstate rail platform and the Transit Centre bus terminal.

To my way of thinking, that sounds like a lot of expensive in modifying the AVM design for something which won't be that highly used.  Just get an outlet at the GC Airport, and also one at both BNE terminals.  Preferably Airtrain but if that cannot be negotiated then somewhere inside the terminal will have to do.

[mufreight]

Does anyone know if the ticket offices at the International and Domestic Airports can actually process refunds/even sell go cards? If not, the question needs to be asked - why not?

If so, perhaps a bit more signage is needed to let tourists know about the go card.

According to the TL website, they cannot.  Neither is there a refund outlet at the Gold Coast Airport.

According to Translink they can do nothing about anything, the question that should be being asked is WHY NOT ?
The answer is relatively simple.
Modify the AVM machines so that they can read the card when the card is inserted into a refund slot which then pays out the balance retained on the card and retains the card, this could be limited to a fixed figure of perhaps $40 and would be avaliable at locations such as the airport terminals, the interstate rail platform and the Transit Centre bus terminal.

To my way of thinking, that sounds like a lot of expensive in modifying the AVM design for something which won't be that highly used.  Just get an outlet at the GC Airport, and also one at both BNE terminals.  Preferably Airtrain but if that cannot be negotiated then somewhere inside the terminal will have to do.

Funny but there is little modification required apparently as I understand similar devices are already in use overseas, they are a module attached to the standard AVM but only at selected locations.
The problem that I would envisage is the machine holding and dispensing notes in the refund as well as coins, these would need to be replenished reguraly as the usage of such machines increased.

[somebody]

I think Singapore may have such a system, perhaps of the single use tickets, but numerous other jurisdictions do not provide an automated refund.  I don't see the problem with such a process requiring human intervention.

[mufreight]

I think Singapore may have such a system, perhaps of the single use tickets, but numerous other jurisdictions do not provide an automated refund.  I don't see the problem with such a process requiring human intervention.

Two problems with under the present administration.
1. Translink does not want to provide such a facility prefering that unused balances are not refunded which is the case knowing that the majority of tourists are not in a position to wait 10 days or more for their refund which is forgone and goes inti Translink insatiable pocket.
2. The argument over staff, a machine is there and avaliable 24/7 which is effectively what is required to meet tourist service needs, a staffed point of service would effectively require at least four staff each day or 28 shifts per week as a minimum.

[somebody]

Why's it needed 24/7?  Someone getting on a 3am international flight would need to use alternate transport to reach the airport, so why can't they just cash in their Go Card once they finish using it, likely at Central or another train station.  There would be a quite small element this wouldn't work seamlessly for.  That element probably wouldn't find an Australian currency cheque very useful, I guess, but may need to make a special trip to refund their Go Card then use a paper ticket to return to their accommodation. 

That was a very long winded way of saying that I don't see a big deal.

[SurfRail]

We should be falling over ourselves to make it easy for visitors in the current market.  It is frankly embarrassing that we are not, particularly from the point of view of the Gold and Sunshine Coasts for whom tourism actually does mean something other than "wander around South Bank".

[mufreight]

Why's it needed 24/7?  Someone getting on a 3am international flight would need to use alternate transport to reach the airport, so why can't they just cash in their Go Card once they finish using it, likely at Central or another train station.  There would be a quite small element this wouldn't work seamlessly for.  That element probably wouldn't find an Australian currency cheque very useful, I guess, but may need to make a special trip to refund their Go Card then use a paper ticket to return to their accommodation. 

That was a very long winded way of saying that I don't see a big deal.

From the tourism point it is a big deal, it all comes down to standards of service.
That 3am flight out would most likely have a high percentage of passengers from that key section of the tourisim market, the backpackers a section of the market that use public transport.
Regardless of how they arrive at the airport be it on the last train, last bus service or the shuttle from the hostel that they may have used being able to cash in their Go card on departure is for them a plus, the refund money would in all probability be spent at the airport before their departure anyway but knowing that they would be able to obtain a refund of the unused portion of their card in a customer friendly manner would
would also encourage their use of the Go card for public transport usage over the length of their stay as would being able to purchase a pre loaded Go card on arrival also from a machine using eftpos.
Actual usage of these facilities might in fact be minimal but the avaliability of these facilities to provide a required service will draw more usage.

[dwb]

There is a fairly simple solution to the tourist ticketing issue.  As the system is being progressively closed, having a go card is a plus to get through the gates etc.  Just introduce a go card that operates essentially on a fixed cost say for 3 or 7 days. This card is activated  for a fixed period from first use.  If not used to touch off no fixed fares.  So if new users mess it up no problem.  They have paid say $100 for three days unrestricted travel.  It could incorporate a journey to and from the airport and unrestricted public transport use on the network.  It could be a very distinctive stylised go card.

The real question is would you get value from such a highly priced card?

And that is the nut of the problem, many tourist cards you'd want to include Airtrain, but that is expensive, and not everybody would want that. And then there is the question of whether they're travelling locally or between Brisbane and the Gold Coast and how to stop the product being mis-used by residents if it actually comes as significant cost to the Government.

Here's my logic, it is easy to have a Brisbane based unlimited travel card - but the problem comes in when people don't know where it is valid for tag off for, and that is the way the system works, it refunds you the difference between your fare and the default fare when you tag off. If you can get into a gate in Central and get on a train to Goldie for a low cost unlimited times a week and then get out at a non gated or non staffed station, what is stopping residents? Also think of the confusion for tourists when they realise they went to zone 4 not 3! The way BT used to deal with this was on an operator level.

Perhaps we should be focussing on getting a BT only ticket for tourists in zones 1-3 and similar at Noosa and Goldie. Does it really need to be network wide?? Does it really need to include inter city trains or trains at all? I know this is a highly compromised position, but perhaps it would be better to get a bus/ferry based card in place while we work on the other issues?

[ozbob]

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5215.msg66117#msg66117

All solvable.

[somebody]

There was a comment on 612 this morning that TL will only refund a disputed Go Card transaction if brought to their attention within a month.  What is the reason for such a rule existing, except to make it harder to get a refund?

Similarly, if you are unhappy with the refund review, they won't accept further correspondence.  At least according to their website.

[ozbob]

There was a comment on 612 this morning that TL will only refund a disputed Go Card transaction if brought to their attention within a month.

I know of individuals who have been able to get refunds on fixed fares accumulated for periods a lot longer than a month, in fact in one case over a couple of years ...

A turned down review can be taken to a higher level of course.  There are proper processes available.  Maybe a few small claim actions, ombudsman directions and the like might get them to actually lift the game. 

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the non empathetic stance taken by TransLink and its agents.

[somebody]

Pretty ridiculous to take it to the ombudsman for $5 though.

[ozbob]

Pretty ridiculous to take it to the ombudsman for $5 though.

Indeed, but if that is what it takes ....

[mufreight]

There was a comment on 612 this morning that TL will only refund a disputed Go Card transaction if brought to their attention within a month.

I know of individuals who have been able to get refunds on fixed fares accumulated for periods a lot longer than a month, in fact in one case over a couple of years ...

A turned down review can be taken to a higher level of course.  There are proper processes available.  Maybe a few small claim actions, ombudsman directions and the like might get them to actually lift the game. 

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the non empathetic stance taken by TransLink and its agents.

Ozbob, it is becoming even more apparent with the passing of time that the Transtink culture is one of CNGAS, they simply do not care.

[somebody]

Ozbob, it is becoming even more apparent with the passing of time that the Transtink culture is one of CNGAS, they simply do not care.

I agree, but what's CNGAS?

[mufreight]

Could not give a s**t

[#Metro]

I agree, but what's CNGAS?

Could not give a s**t

Oh that's a disappointment! I thought that was the new Compressed Natural GAS bus...
oh well...

[Gazza]

I don't really see the point of a specialised tourist product, especially if its going to be overpriced (Hang on, I thought paper tickets got criticized for ripping off tourists......But $100 for just 3 days is ripping people off IMO.

Plus in the Qld tourist market, $100 gets you a years access to 3 theme parks, so I doubt that $100 for 3 days riding on TLs wonderful services is going to have quite the same attractiveness for visitors.

This is why I advocate $1-$2 Go Cards.

-Everyone on the one system.
-Doesn't need verification of the users status as a 'visitor'.
-Best possible fares.
-Works for everybody, since the visitor doesn't need to work out the break even point for whether they will do enough travel to make it worthwhile.
-Good for people stopping less than 3 days.

[dwb]

I don't really see the point of a specialised tourist product, especially if its going to be overpriced (Hang on, I thought paper tickets got criticized for ripping off tourists......But $100 for just 3 days is ripping people off IMO.

Plus in the Qld tourist market, $100 gets you a years access to 3 theme parks, so I doubt that $100 for 3 days riding on TLs wonderful services is going to have quite the same attractiveness for visitors.

This is why I advocate $1-$2 Go Cards.

-Everyone on the one system.
-Doesn't need verification of the users status as a 'visitor'.
-Best possible fares.
-Works for everybody, since the visitor doesn't need to work out the break even point for whether they will do enough travel to make it worthwhile.
-Good for people stopping less than 3 days.

Gazza I disagree with you about the $1-2 go cards, I see no issue with having a deposit/card cost if other issues are dealt with.

I also strongly think that a tourist product should exist, but agree with you that it should not be priced at that crazy high price.

[somebody]

Noticed another issue with this: If you do a cash top up via a QR ticket window, you are not allowed to do a cash refund.  I can understand it to some degree for credit card top ups, but what is with the cash topup restriction?  I'd presume that the same restriction would apply if you top up on a non-BT bus.

[dwb]

Noticed another issue with this: If you do a cash top up via a QR ticket window, you are not allowed to do a cash refund.  I can understand it to some degree for credit card top ups, but what is with the cash topup restriction?  I'd presume that the same restriction would apply if you top up on a non-BT bus.

Maybe they can't tell the difference, maybe they don't want it to become a defacto debit card/ ATM service

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter just a received a go card fare refund in 1 working day 

[Fares_Fair]

BrizCommuter just a received a go card fare refund in 1 working day 

What went wrong ?   

Regards,
Fares_Fair.