Solutions on how to solve the 5:22pm "Bombay Express" overcrowding.

[Arnz]

As I've suggest in the "OVERCROWDING SHOCKER" thread, I've thought of 2 solutions after going through the TTs.

First solution was from the other thread, but with a slight alteration if bi-directional running north of Narangba can't be used.

2nd Solution is after Solution 1.

Solution 1:

- Run an extra Nambour train 3 min behind the 5:22pm from Central which would now terminate at Caboolture - there is a 9 min gap after this service (which would also allow an Ekka loop service). ?? could this extra Nambour service overtake the preceding Caboolture train at Narangba so that it can skip Dakabin to Morayfield to save a few mins too.

This slot is already taken by the 5:19pm Petrie all-stoppers.  

What I would suggest is slotting in the Nambour train between the 5:10pm Caboolture express and the 5:19pm Petrie all-stations.  Departing at 5:16pm.  

The Nambour service under the old timetable had a 5:17pm departure time.  So one minute earlier than the old (2009 TT) departure may be a bit of a stretch for a few, though most should still make it.
Roma Street: 5:11
Central arrive: 5:14
Central depart: 5:16
Fortitude Valley: 5:18
Bowen Hills: 5:20
(all stations to Northgate)
Northgate: 5:35
(express to Petrie)
Petrie: 5:51 (could probably be skipped - but added the stop anyway)
(express to Caboolture - switches to bi-drectional track at Narangba and uses Southbound track)
Caboolture arr: 6:05
Caboolture dep: 6:06 (10 mins earlier than current timetabled departure)

The Nambour train under the old timetable used the southbound track from Narangba to Caboolture under bi-di signals and arrived at Caboolture simultaneously with a all-stopper was the rationale behind using Bi-directional running on the Narangba-Caboolture section.

If bi-di can't be used, then the train stops all-stations Petrie to Caboolture
Petrie: 5:51
(all stations to Caboolture)
Caboolture arr: 6:10
Caboolture dep: 6:11 (5 mins earlier than current timetabled departure)

Solution 2: (requires bi-directional running to be used north of Narangba)
Roma Street: 5:22
Central arr: 5:24
Central dep: 5:26
Fortitude Valley: 5:28
Bowen Hills: 5:30
(all stations to Northgate)
Northgate: 5:46
(express to Caboolture - switches to bi-directional track at Narangba)
Caboolture: 6:16pm
Caboolture: 6:17pm (depart one minute ahead of current timetabled departure).

Basically the second solution is departing later, but due to running express Northgate-Caboolture, it still arrive at Caboolture at the same as the 5:22pm to use the current timeslots north of Caboolture.

The 5:22pm train in the second solution would terminate at Caboolture Platform 1 or Platform 2 to allow the 5:26pm Nambour train to use Platform 2 or Platform 3.

[somebody]

Looking at the timetable, I really don't think the solutions are that difficult, and the problems aren't surprising.

Old timetable had a 42 minute gap and ran express Bowen Hills-Caboolture.  New timetable has a 48 minute gap and runs express Northgate to Petrie.

As for solutions:
1) Use the suburbans.  It's OK for the GYN trains.  (I'm not a huge fan of this option).
2) Shuffle the 17:15 & 17:18 trains 3 minutes earlier, and add another Caboolture train at the 17:18 slot.  This would also require another Petrie train.
3) etc.  It's not that difficult really.

[Arnz]

Looking at both affected trains. This solution came up. 

Move the 5:10pm (ex-Central) Caboolture train to 5:16pm (ex-Central).
Introduce the 5:13pm (ex-Central) Petrie all-stations service.

(Note: Subtract 4 mins for the Roma Street departure time (eg 5:12pm Roma Street, arr Central 5:14pm, dep Central 5:16pm).)

Standees on both the 5:19pm Petrie and 5:22pm Nambour reduced as more people get the option to move across 1 service behind.  

Going by past reporting off this site and people catching that service, the 5:10pm has fewer standees, so moving it 6 minutes later spreads the standees out by removing a estimated 150+ Petrie-Caboolture commuters off the Nambour service. Add in some of the Albion-Nundah commuters on both the 5:19pm Petrie and 5:22pm Nambour and the standees on both services would be less.

[Fares_Fair]

I was told a new service would cost $15 million.
But, clearly that is what we need.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[wbj]

I was told a new service would cost $15 million.
But, clearly that is what we need.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

$15M per annum?  Includes the cost of rolling stock?  Running costs only?  Net cost after deducting fare revenue?  Have QR given up on increasing patronage during peak PM period and will rely only on increasing fare rates?

[Fares_Fair]

I assume per annum wbj,
and I assumed it includes the cost of the rolling-stock.

I assume it doesn't offset the cost of fares either.
I can ask.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

Is the train running on gold bullion sleepers?
Does it have a diamond encrusted door?

Where else but Queensland!

[Stillwater]

We should not assume that the $15m figure is correct.  It needs to be verified before using it as a basis of debate.

[O_128]

Who cares how much its costs, Governments and there companies dont need to make profits//

[mufreight]

We should not assume that the $15m figure is correct.  It needs to be verified before using it as a basis of debate.

More likely actual train cost $1 million per year and $14 million for Translink to employ additional staff to evaluate and report in an attempt to justify not operating the additional service so as to SAVE the $1 millioin it would actualy cost to run.

[somebody]

I was told a new service would cost $15 million.
But, clearly that is what we need.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

That's just crap.

It may cost a similar amount for a new 6 car train, but who says we need one?

[Fares_Fair]

We should not assume that the $15m figure is correct.  It needs to be verified before using it as a basis of debate.

I will contact QR today and get a full breakdown of this figure.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

The broadcaster of this 'fact', btw, was the Channel 7 Sunshine Coast 6pm news bulletin of 22 June 2011.

[SurfRail]

Who cares how much its costs, Governments and there companies dont need to make profits//

No, but in an environment with limited revenue available, they do have a duty to be financially responsible with public monies to ensure the most people benefit and that major projects don't actually frustrate policy objectives they are stated to be aimed at resolving.

That said, I think the $15m quoted is absolute bunkum too.

[p858snake]

Who cares how much its costs, Governments and there companies dont need to make profits//

Actually they do, otherwise there would be only limited improvements, Imagine if a school didn't profit from their fees, there would no improvements and things would start to fall into disrepair.

[somebody]

So, it doesn't like there will be any announcement of a solution to this, this week.  That's a bit annoying.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Simon,

I'm definitely expecting one this week, with implementation due for next week at the earliest.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Of course, the lack of a swift response means a comprehensive and considered solution is being worked upon, which is certainly what's required.  Give me the delay leading to a good fix versus a bandaid quick fix anyday.

[ozbob]

Of course, the lack of a swift response means a comprehensive and considered solution is being worked upon, which is certainly what's required.  Give me the delay leading to a good fix versus a bandaid quick fix anyday.

Yes indeed.  I am hopeful that some changes may be announced later this week. 

Consideration to changes also needs to be done in the overall context of the phase 2 timetable stuff, which means some time to work things through.

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/

Opposition Statement

Labor forced to fix blundered train timetable

Wednesday, 22 June 2011 16:04

QR and TRANSLink have backflipped on the Brisbane to Nambour peak hour train timetable after the LNP raised commuter concerns of overcrowding. 

LNP Shadow Transport Minister Scott Emerson has along with commuters been fighting Labor to fix disgusting levels of overcrowding.

"This inept government couldn't get it right the first time when they wasted $26 million of taxpayer's money on ill-conceived timetable changes," said Mr Emerson.

"Since the train timetable change two weeks ago, South East Queensland commuters have been forced to travel in sardine-like conditions.

"As a result, rail users have dubbed this service the "Bombay Express"  and the "Calcutta Special" .

"I stood on platform 6 at Central Station just yesterday afternoon and saw yet again the frustration and heard complaints of distress from South East Queensland commuters.

"The need for these changes was obvious from day one but its taken the State Government more than two weeks to react.

"Five Labor Ministers have been responsible for our transport system since Labor came to power and all Queensland commuters have got are higher fees and poorer services.

"The LNP is calling on Minister Palaszczuk to take notice of public transport users and ensure this timetable change happens quickly.

"Only an LNP Government will save Queenslanders money and deliver more by getting action on the basics and cutting waste," Mr Emerson said.

[BrizCommuter]

LNP Shadow Transport Minister Scott Emerson has along with commuters been fighting Labor to fix disgusting levels of overcrowding.

Great, can Mr Emerson now fix all the the other overcrowded services on the Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove, Cleveland, and Beenleigh Lines?

[Stillwater]

BrisCommuter, the LNP just wants you to throw away your vote without thinking.  Just as in the fairytales, everyone lives happily ever after, the LNP would have you believe that a vote for them will transport you to the land where no train runs late and everyone has a seat.  Vote LNP and trust us to make everything better -- that's the refrain.  It is the same principle as mum's kiss will make the pain go away.

[somebody]

Better than some of the other things he has said.

[#Metro]

Ugh. What twisted media releases!

"Banned parking withing 10 km of the CBD" ummm hellooo... that's a TL guideline and for good reason...
"Forced to backflip"... um, its called a timetable tweak...

"As a result, rail users have dubbed this service the "Bombay Express"  and the "Calcutta Special" .

Seriously, I am just waiting for the Indian Consulate to start saying something...

[BrizCommuter]

Ugh. What twisted media releases!

"Banned parking withing 10 km of the CBD" ummm hellooo... that's a TL guideline and for good reason...
"Forced to backflip"... um, its called a timetable tweak...

"As a result, rail users have dubbed this service the "Bombay Express"  and the "Calcutta Special" .

Seriously, I am just waiting for the Indian Consulate to start saying something...

This is the real Bombay express

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

[somebody]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

[BrizCommuter]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

BrizCommuter has personally travelled on busier peak hour outer suburban trains in Paris, Madrid, London (on nearly every outer suburban line out of the capital), Lisbon, Tokyo (multiple lines), Osaka, Stockholm, and Melbourne (Belgrave Line).

[somebody]

Belgrave line would be more comparable to the Caboolture/Ipswich lines though wouldn't it?  Wiki reckons 41.3km to the terminus.

Not sure about the other systems you are comparing to of course since you didn't post any details, but I wouldn't think you could compare to anything in Japan.

[O_128]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

BrizCommuter has personally travelled on busier peak hour outer suburban trains in Paris, Madrid, London (on nearly every outer suburban line out of the capital), Lisbon, Tokyo (multiple lines), Osaka, Stockholm, and Melbourne (Belgrave Line).

True I remember getting a train to Reading via Gatwick, Equalised at Gatwick only to fill up again, Was literally the Bombay express. The RER from Paris Airport in peak hour was packed as well, not to mention the gypsies playing music to.

[Fares_Fair]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

BrizCommuter has personally travelled on busier peak hour outer suburban trains in Paris, Madrid, London (on nearly every outer suburban line out of the capital), Lisbon, Tokyo (multiple lines), Osaka, Stockholm, and Melbourne (Belgrave Line).

... and how much do they pay for the privilege ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[BrizCommuter]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

BrizCommuter has personally travelled on busier peak hour outer suburban trains in Paris, Madrid, London (on nearly every outer suburban line out of the capital), Lisbon, Tokyo (multiple lines), Osaka, Stockholm, and Melbourne (Belgrave Line).

... and how much do they pay for the privilege ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Far more than Sunshine Coast commuters!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/05/long-distance-commuting-part-1.html

[Fares_Fair]

The 5:21pm should be called the "not quite as busy as peak hour outer suburban trains on other developed countries rail networks" express.

How do you figure?  Majority of the similar services on CityRail are operated with spare seats even in peak hour.  A few standees may be likely to Parramatta, Blacktown, Epping or Hurstville.  Not sure about V/Line or Perth.  I think the Mandurah line may be the only close service over there, but I'm open to correction.

BrizCommuter has personally travelled on busier peak hour outer suburban trains in Paris, Madrid, London (on nearly every outer suburban line out of the capital), Lisbon, Tokyo (multiple lines), Osaka, Stockholm, and Melbourne (Belgrave Line).

... and how much do they pay for the privilege ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Far more than Sunshine Coast commuters!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/05/long-distance-commuting-part-1.html

Not according to the Courier-Mail story.
Your continued bias against predominately Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast commuters makes me doubt your blog and its selective objectivity.
You may consider high population density suitable for raising a family, where kids play in their small apartment block stairwells - but I do not.
Increased population densities are bad news for families. There is no substitute for a back yard, green grass and free space.

What is a heavy gauge rail line for ?

It is for long distance passenger and freight movements. Most efficient way to do so too.


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

You'll find that the CM story was talking about sububan tickets.

No, nothing selective at all. Overseas, using metropolitan networks is cheaper than Aus, but long distance costs more.
I've said that all along, and have made several posts demonstrating with real world examples.

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast Daily
Wednesday 29 June, 2011
by Mark Bode


Timetable change on right track.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/06/29/timetable-change-on-right-track-rail/

CORRECTION TO THIS STORY

The following has been added to the comments section under the online story.
Jeffrey Addison is NOT the Coast based spokesman for Rail - Back on Track.

Whilst he is a member of RBoT, Jeffrey Addison described himself for this story as a Sunshine Coast Commuter Advocate only.

Robert Dow is the only spokesman for Rail - Back on Track and he can be contacted via email at admin@backontrack.org.

Sunshine Coast commuters welcome the additional service.
'Crush' hour is over !
We do recognise that not all are winners under these changes, particularly those who cannot get to the 5:04pm train in time. They will now have to wait an extra 6 minutes to get home.
Their day will now become longer still. I'm sorry that what we achieved will hurt those who cannot get to the station in time, without a good pair of running shoes.
I have done all I possibly could, and for those commuters it is a pyrrhic victory.

These changes will alleviate the overcrowding to the 5:20pm service, and that was the objective of the revisions announced today.
I would like to thank Mr Kevin Wright, COO for QR, for the work that went on behind the scenes to resolve this issue.

I'd like to thank the Minister for Transport and Multicultural Affairs, Annastacia Palaszczuk, for viewing the situation herself and fixing it.
And finally; Thank you to those who gave us a long and loud voice in Parliament, including Andrew Powell, Shadow Minister for the Environment and Scott Emerson, Shadow Minister for Transport.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Ministerial Statement

Sunshine Coast gets an additional rail service

An extra rail service will be added to the Sunshine Coast line during
the afternoon peak to provide commuters with another travel option
following the release of the new timetable recently.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said Queensland Rail and
TransLink had been closely monitoring the new timetable for the past few
weeks along with feedback from passengers and local community
representatives.

"For the most part the biggest timetable change in 15 years has gone
extremely well," she said.

"It's quite an achievement given more than 870 rail services and
approximately 15,000 bus services operate across South East Queensland
on a daily basis.

"However, some commuters have raised concerns, particularly with the
5.22pm rail service from the city to Nambour and I've been down to
Central to talk to commuters directly about this."

Changes on the Caboolture and Sunshine Coast line will start on 11 July.
Ms Palaszczuk said the most recent change will provide additional
options for Sunshine Coast customers, including:

*   The 5.04pm CBD to Caboolture will become a CBD to Nambour
*   The 5.22pm CBD to Nambour service will now become a CBD to
Caboolture
*   A new 5.28pm CBD to Nambour service will be introduced. This
train starts from Roma Street.
*   All other Petrie, Caboolture and Nambour services will remain
the same. All Caboolture and Nambour services during this period run
express between Northgate and Petrie.

"Overall, this will provide a seventh afternoon peak service for
Sunshine Coast residents - up from five before the new timetable," Ms
Palaszczuk said.

An additional two bus services have already been added to route 193 (New
Farm), route 615 (Maroochydore to Landsborough) and route 605 (Kawana to
Landsborough).

An additional three-car train set has also recently been added to the
6.13am Caboolture to Central train service to provide passengers with
more seats.

Queensland Rail CEO Paul Scurrah said Queensland Rail had been closely
monitoring a small number of services which had been heavily patronized
and had listened to and responded to feedback.

"I appreciate the patience of those who have been using these very
popular services, but stress that it was important to get these changes
right," he said.

"We have consistently said since the timetable was first announced that
it was designed to get more trains where they are needed most.

"We are pleased that many customers have been reporting they have been
getting a seat for the first time and that reliability has improved."

ENDS

[ozbob]

 

[Fares_Fair]

Overall, this is a fantastic response, thanks to all concerned.
Sunshine Coast commuters can now avoid 'crush' hour services.



Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Media release 29 June 2011

SEQ: Sunshine Coast Line timetable tweaks welcomed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers thanks TransLink, Queensland Rail and the Minister for Transport for responding to Sunshine Coast line commuters concerns and implementing further improvements for the Sunshine Coast line PM peak train timetable.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The timetable changes introduced on the 6th June have been largely well received. As we suggested some further tweaking of the Sunshine Coast line timetable was needed however, and the Minister for Transport has now announced some further changes (1,2)."

The Minister has indicated that:

*   The 5.04pm CBD to Caboolture will become a CBD to Nambour
*   The 5.22pm CBD to Nambour service will now become a CBD to Caboolture
*   A new 5.28pm CBD to Nambour service will be introduced. This train starts from Roma Street.
*   All other Petrie, Caboolture and Nambour services will remain the same.

"These changes mean an additional rail service to Nambour and will go a long way to alleviating the over crowding on the 5.22pm service."

"Thank you!"

References:

1. http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/06/29/timetable-change-on-right-track-rail/

2. Media release 7 June 2011 SEQ: Major timetable changes phase one, a new beginning http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6149.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk
29/06/2011

Sunshine Coast gets an additional rail service

An extra rail service will be added to the Sunshine Coast line during the afternoon peak to provide commuters with another travel option following the release of the new timetable recently.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said Queensland Rail and TransLink had been closely monitoring the new timetable for the past few weeks along with feedback from passengers and local community representatives.

"For the most part the biggest timetable change in 15 years has gone extremely well," she said.

"It's quite an achievement given more than 870 rail services and approximately 15,000 bus services operate across South East Queensland on a daily basis.

"However, some commuters have raised concerns, particularly with the 5.22pm rail service from the city to Nambour and I've been down to Central to talk to commuters directly about this."

Changes on the Caboolture and Sunshine Coast line will start on 11 July.

Ms Palaszczuk said the most recent change will provide additional options for Sunshine Coast customers, including:

·The 5.04pm CBD to Caboolture will become a CBD to Nambour

·The 5.22pm CBD to Nambour service will now become a CBD to Caboolture

·A new 5.28pm CBD to Nambour service will be introduced. This train starts from Roma Street.

·All other Petrie, Caboolture and Nambour services will remain the same. All Caboolture and Nambour services during this period run express between Northgate and Petrie.

"Overall, this will provide a seventh afternoon peak service for Sunshine Coast residents - up from five before the new timetable," Ms Palaszczuk said.

An additional two bus services have already been added to route 193 (New Farm), route 615 (Maroochydore to Landsborough) and route 605 (Kawana to Landsborough).

An additional three-car train set has also recently been added to the 6.13am Caboolture to Central train service to provide passengers with more seats.

Queensland Rail CEO Paul Scurrah said Queensland Rail had been closely monitoring a small number of services which had been heavily patronized and had listened to and responded to feedback.

"I appreciate the patience of those who have been using these very popular services, but stress that it was important to get these changes right," he said.

"We have consistently said since the timetable was first announced that it was designed to get more trains where they are needed most.

"We are pleased that many customers have been reporting they have been getting a seat for the first time and that reliability has improved."

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast Daily
Wednesday 29 June, 2011
by Mark Bode


Timetable change on right track.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/06/29/timetable-change-on-right-track-rail/

CORRECTION TO THIS STORY

The following has been added to the comments section under the online story.
Jeffrey Addison is NOT the Coast based spokesman for Rail - Back on Track.

Whilst he is a member of RBoT, Jeffrey Addison described himself for this story as a Sunshine Coast Commuter Advocate only.

Robert Dow is the only spokesman for Rail - Back on Track and he can be contacted via email at admin@backontrack.org.

Sunshine Coast commuters welcome the additional service.
'Crush' hour is over !
We do recognise that not all are winners under these changes, particularly those who cannot get to the 5:04pm train in time. They will now have to wait an extra 6 minutes to get home.
Their day will now become longer still. I'm sorry that what we achieved will hurt those who cannot get to the station in time, without a good pair of running shoes.
I have done all I possibly could, and for those commuters it is a pyrrhic victory.

These changes will alleviate the overcrowding to the 5:20pm service, and that was the objective of the revisions announced today.
I would like to thank Mr Kevin Wright, COO for QR, for the work that went on behind the scenes to resolve this issue.

I'd like to thank the Minister for Transport and Multicultural Affairs, Annastacia Palaszczuk, for viewing the situation herself and fixing it.
And finally; Thank you to those who gave us a long and loud voice in Parliament, including Andrew Powell, Shadow Minister for the Environment and Scott Emerson, Shadow Minister for Transport.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Hello Bob,

My apologies.
The top section of this post has been edited out of the comments section of today's SCD story.
I would welcome your inquiry to the SCD confirm this.

Regards,
Fares_Fair