Western Passenger services

[mufreight]

It is now more than overdue for the reinstatement of rail passenger service to the west beyond Rosewood.
The Warrigo Highway is reaching capacity in the morning and evening peaks and those commuting each day by private car on reaching the Ipswich Motorway and Centenary Highway parking lots are disparing of any improvements that will cater for the increasing traffic.
In 2007 a count was done and found that over 1800 people commuted daily from the Lockyer Valley (Gatton and surrounds) east to the Ipswich and Brisbane areas for employment, since that time those figures would have grown.
Reinstating a rail service to Helidon with a connecting bus service to Toowoomba would provide a better level of service than is possible using buses as is the case for some at present.
Such a rail service would carry co-ordinated services passengers to and from Toowoomba and service not only the needs of residents of Helidon, Grantham, Gatton, Forest Hill, Laidley, Grandchester and Calvert and the surrounding areas traveling either towards Toowoomba or Ipswich/Brisbane but also people wishing to travel to Lawes (University) Gatton (the new super jail, both staff and visitors) providing an alternative to the journey by road.
The line is for most of the distance double track a a new tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range, (the existing single track section) would shorten the transit time considerably with advantages to not only the passenger services but also freight.
The electrification could at present be extended from Rosewood to Grandchester and a shuttle could be operated using railcars between Grandchester and Helidon until such time as the tunnel was built to enable the electrification to be extended to Helidon.
Will it happen? probably not under the present government, too many rusted on LNP voters in the areas it would serve but we can hope, perhaps after the election.

[ozbob]

It is time we pushed hard for this.

From the Queensland Times 8th March 2011 page 13

RACQ blasts city's high-risk highway

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th March 2011

Western Passenger services

Greetings,

Today the Queensland Times has an article on page 13 highlighting the mess the so called Warrego 'Highway'  is between Ipswich and Gatton.

( Queensland Times 8th March 2011 page 13 RACQ blasts city's high-risk highway )

It is now time for the reinstatement of regular commuter rail passenger services to the west beyond Rosewood.

The Warrego Highway is reaching capacity in the morning and evening peaks and those commuting each day by private car on reaching the Ipswich Motorway and Centenary Highway parking lots are despairing of any improvements that will cater for the increasing traffic.

In 2007 a count was done and found that over 1800 people commuted daily from the Lockyer Valley (Gatton and surrounds) east to the Ipswich and Brisbane areas for employment, since that time those figures would have grown.

Reinstating a rail service to Helidon with a connecting bus service to Toowoomba would provide a better level of service than is possible using buses as is the case for some at present.

Such a rail service would carry coordinated service passengers to and from Toowoomba and service not only the needs of residents of Helidon, Grantham, Gatton, Forest Hill, Laidley, Grandchester and Calvert and the surrounding areas travelling either towards Toowoomba or Ipswich/Brisbane but also people wishing to travel to Lawes (University) Gatton (the new super jail, both staff and visitors) providing an alternative to the journey by road.

The line is for most of the distance double track a new tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range, (the existing single track section) would shorten the transit time considerably with advantages to not only the passenger services but also freight.

The electrification could at present be extended from Rosewood to Grandchester and a shuttle could be operated using railcars between Grandchester and Helidon until such time as the tunnel was built to enable the electrification to be extended to Helidon.

Transport policy in Queensland has been characterised by a failure to properly utilise the assets we already have.  The rail line west of Rosewood is another classic example.

If the transport authorities will not move to reinstate commuter rail services to Helidon, they should stand aside and allow others who will take their place.

Best wishes
Robert

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5213/5385138891_6a70a4ee2a.jpg

Helidon 1991

[somebody]

What makes it hard to electrify Grandchester-Helidon?

Would it be possible to electrify the existing single track tunnel?

[ozbob]

What makes it hard to electrify Grandchester-Helidon?

Would it be possible to electrify the existing single track tunnel?

Not enough clearance apparently, it is a small bore tunnel ..  one option might be to lower the track bed, could have been done during the present shutdown ...

[ozbob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Tunnel,_Queensland

Victoria Tunnel, Queensland

The Victoria Tunnel in Queensland is the oldest and longest railway tunnel in the state, built when the state was a separate colony.[1]

The tunnel is one of two built through the Little Liverpool Range on a section of narrow gauge railway from Grandchester to Gatton. The railway opened in June 1866. The tunnel has restricted clearances, which limits the size of rolling stock on the Queensland Railways network. It is 537 m long.

[ozbob]

Another very obvious question to ask is "Is there any piece of road infrastructure built in 1866 still in regular and critical use?"

Another reason why investment in rail is very very sound ...

[somebody]

Hmm,
Do you guys see freight paying for this proposed new tunnel, or must passenger make a contribution?  Looking at a map, I can certainly see what you are talking about here.  If the existing line straightened to a new tunnel entrance about 500m E of the current one, about 3.5km from Grandchester on a 1 in 66 gradient, that would be acceptable (new tunnel entrance elevation ~ 135m).

You'd need a tunnel of about 2km length, the way I see it, which isn't short.

[ozbob]

It would be a relatively straight forward project compared to other 'tunnel' projects in Brisbane of late.  It is warranted for freight and passenger.

There will be an increasing focus on straightening and improving ROW generally as freight moves back to rail, an inevitable outcome of fuel pricing, government policies including carbon pricing and the like.  The massive funding imbalance to roads will be altered to provide transport options for the long term.

[somebody]

It is warranted for freight and passenger.

Has that been studied?  The Ardglen Tunnel north of Musselbrook doesn't look like replacement/supplementation is cost effective on any study, in spite of significant coal and some grain traffic, and the need for banker locomotives on the current 1:40 approach.

[ozbob]

Has that been studied? 

Sure it has.  I don't have the details but there has been multiple studies, mufreight is across the detail.

The longer they wait, the worse it becomes of course.  Rather incredible that tunnels built in 1866 are still the major constraint on the entire QR network ...  it is these tunnels that dictate the general maximum loading gauge.

[ozbob]

Related --> http://www.artc.com.au/Content.aspx?p=175

[mufreight]

It is warranted for freight and passenger.

Has that been studied?  The Ardglen Tunnel north of Musselbrook doesn't look like replacement/supplementation is cost effective on any study, in spite of significant coal and some grain traffic, and the need for banker locomotives on the current 1:40 approach.

Yes, the Grandchester - Gowrie realignment and deviation.
The western line coal traffic alone is more than the current tonnages through Ardglen
The tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range is more than justified in savings in operational costs and time alone.
Might I add that in terms of return on investment this tunnel is a more productive option than building two kilometres of tunnel for a metro in the city and would cost less being a straight line tunnel without having to carry out additional works such as underpinning buildings and avoiding building foundations, sewerage and stormwater drains.

[Stillwater]

Brisbane-Toowoomba is about 150km by rail.

Here is some related info:

http://www.australianews.com.au/australia/queensland/darlingdowns/toowoomba/story?cityid=9901bdf5-f527-4b68-852d-149172949fd4&storyid=c97ac04f-1e6e-42d4-b7e1-5db0bafcb1b7

http://www.australianews.com.au/australia/queensland/darlingdowns/toowoomba/story?cityid=9901bdf5-f527-4b68-852d-149172949fd4&storyid=3423f5ef-e2dc-43b1-8be7-909bc33f332c

See the newsletter here:

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/68f0d485-2c9a-4fb4-9b0b-c8674e6a1d97/pdf_ggrcs_newsletter_11.pdf

[Stillwater]

What type of passenger rolling stock could operate Brisbane to Helidon/Toowoomba and would it be feasible to also run to Beaudesert on narrow gauge track beside standard gauge and / or on dual gauge track?

[colinw]

IMHO an electric service at least as far as Gatton is about a 50/50 chance within 15-20 years.  Already the combined population of Laidley, Forest Hill and Gatton is pushing that of Nambour, and the population out that way is becoming increasingly commuter oriented.  A trip along the Warrego Highway shows the changes occurring in the area, e.g. the Woolworths supermarket that has sprung up at the Laidley turnoff.

As Mufreight points out, the line is mostly double track on good alignment, bar the single track section from Grandchester to Yarongmulu, which is only a relatively short section and no worse in alignment or gradient than much of the NCL.  The rest of the line, with suitable track upgrades, would be good for 130km/h or better running.

The biggest stumbling blocks are the loading gauge limitation imposed by the #1 and Victoria tunnels, and potential heritage problems with the tunnels.  In particular #1 tunnel, the short tunnel just up from Grandchester, was the first rail tunnel built in Queensland and is in pristine condition.  I suspect moves to modify it would encounter heritage difficulties.

(#1 tunnel - photo linked From QRIG.org)


The social benefits contributing to toward the recovery of the Lockyer Valley should be obvious as well.

[colinw]

What type of passenger rolling stock could operate Brisbane to Helidon/Toowoomba and would it be feasible to also run to Beaudesert on narrow gauge track beside standard gauge and / or on dual gauge track?

Narrow gauge to Flagstone & Beaudesert alongside the standard (now dual gauge) already features in this study, and a corridor from near Flagstone to just north of Beaudesert is being reserved.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/S/Salisbury-to-Beaudesert-Rail-Corridor-Study.aspx

If not electrified then a modern DMU similar to a V/Line V/Locity would do nicely, alternatively something like a British Rail Class 168:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_168

I've ridden something like the Class 168 (not sure, could have been a 170 "TurboStar") between Gloucester and Birmingham, and it poked along at 140km/h quite nicely - managed to climb the Lickey Incline without too much trouble.  The passenger experience was not dissimilar to a Gold Coast line IMU - similar interior fitout, similar ride quality and top speed.  Something like that would do fine for regional services, and could be used to start a service for much lower cost than stringing up 25KV overhead (plus associated works - immunising signals against eddy currents, altering clearances on overhead bridges, etc.)  Might be the way to go for services west of Ipswich, or down Beaudesert way.

[curator49]

A new alignment across the Little Liverpool Range bypassing the Victoria Tunnel. Modern earth-moving machinery would find little trouble with such a task comapred with the pick and shovel of the 1865 era. The Victoria Tunnel is heritage listed so can't really be touched - the first tunnel in Queensland. The first railway was built after Queensland became a separate colony not befor as apparently Wikipedia says (I haven't read their entry yet).

The Warrego Highway and Ipswich Motorway are clogged with trucks bringing grain and containers from the Darling Downs and empties going back as the current rail line cannot cope with the volume of traffic which is mainly coal. It would be better to get the trucks off the road by supporting a better rail link.

[Arnz]

IMHO an electric service at least as far as Gatton is about a 50/50 chance within 15-20 years.  Already the combined population of Laidley, Forest Hill and Gatton is pushing that of Nambour, and the population out that way is becoming increasingly commuter oriented.  A trip along the Warrego Highway shows the changes occurring in the area, e.g. the Woolworths supermarket that has sprung up at the Laidley turnoff.

Whereas the Western Region is growing and the towns combined may be close to the Nambour population (alone), the line primarily would rely on walk-up patronage with the exception of the terminus (where the Toowoomba feeder buses and P&R would meet), whereas the NCL towns rely more on Park&Ride and Bus Feeder patronage from the Sunshine Coast and the Hinterland if you throw in the 290,000+ population of the Sunshine Coast into consideration.    The Sunshine Coast+Gympie pop would still outnumber the combined Western Region+Toowoomba pop.

Take Landsborough (the busiest station on the Sunshine Coast Line) for example, feeder buses to University/Maroochydore, Caloundra/Kawana, Maleny depart from there on top of the full car park each weekday.

As Mufreight points out, the line is mostly double track on good alignment, bar the single track section from Grandchester to Yarongmulu, which is only a relatively short section and no worse in alignment or gradient than much of the NCL.  The rest of the line, with suitable track upgrades, would be good for 130km/h or better running.

The biggest stumbling blocks are the loading gauge limitation imposed by the #1 and Victoria tunnels, and potential heritage problems with the tunnels.  In particular #1 tunnel, the short tunnel just up from Grandchester, was the first rail tunnel built in Queensland and is in pristine condition.  I suspect moves to modify it would encounter heritage difficulties.

The social benefits contributing to toward the recovery of the Lockyer Valley should be obvious as well.

I'd say electrifying to Grandchester and transferring (most) of the (soon to be underutilised) ICE fleet to Western line to Grandchester would give those units some work, not to mention would suit the patronage for the widely spread out Lockyer Valley region.  Beyond Grandchester would require some work obviously, though at least services can be extended in the future if the Western line tunnels get the go ahead.

[mufreight]

The realignment of the Grandchester to Gowrie rail line is part of the prefered option for the Federaly funded Inland Rail Link, surely it would be reasonable for the Federal Government to fund the realignment of the line between Grandchester and Yarongmulu and the new tunnel that is required as part of that project now and enable that infrastructure to be built now rather than later.
To do so has immediate benefits for both passenger and freight services in terms of transit times and operating costs.

[somebody]

Might I suggest a release like this would best include a link to a study which recommended benefits from the line?

[mufreight]

Might I suggest a release like this would best include a link to a study which recommended benefits from the line?

You might.   

[colinw]

The realignment of the Grandchester to Gowrie rail line is part of the prefered option for the Federaly funded Inland Rail Link, surely it would be reasonable for the Federal Government to fund the realignment of the line between Grandchester and Yarongmulu and the new tunnel that is required as part of that project now and enable that infrastructure to be built now rather than later.
To do so has immediate benefits for both passenger and freight services in terms of transit times and operating costs.

An eminently sensible suggestion in my opinion.  It is an anomaly that there is no interurban service out that way.

A new tunnel between Grandchester and Laidley would have operational benefits for the coal services too, as the climb from Laidley to Yarongmulu must be one of the main grades facing loaded coalies. (Although from around Gowrie Junction to Harlaxton has some fairly serious gradients as well).

I cannot think of a comparable good quality stretch of mainline that close to a city that doesn't have a service.

[Sunbus610]

Do we actually need a passenger rail service from Brisbane to Toowoomba to be a electrified for it be viable etc?? Since any future prospects of the QG ever upgrading the tunnels and curves on the Western Line could many many years away why can't they just build a batch of modern air conditioned two car diesel passengers units, with toilet facilities, (similar to the Xplorer units operated by CountryLink in New South Wales) to operate the service and upgrade the existing stations along the line.

[colinw]

I contend that it does not necessarily need to be electrified, as I said in this post.

Wishful thinking mode, but had I been Transport Minister in 1993*, the wires would not have extended beyond Ipswich and the 2000 class railmotors would have been replaced with DMUs.  Said DMUs would have been really useful for low cost starter services on other corridors as well (e.g. a Bethania - Logan Village shuttle, down dual gauge to Bromelton, Caboolture to Wamuran, Cairns & Townsville area services, ...).

As much as I like certain aspects of our "all electric" fleet, the lack of any modern DMUs makes it near impossible to trail services beyond the wires or do low cost branch line resurrections like Logan Village.

*perish the thought that I would ever run for Parliament.  I'd rather have a root canal without anaesthetic.

[somebody]

I cannot think of a comparable good quality stretch of mainline that close to a city that doesn't have a service.

Firstly, it's not good quality at present, that's why we are suggesting an upgrade.

Secondly, might I suggest the bit west of Lithgow, which is currently a bus to Bathurst.  The bus is faster than what the train would be, although CountryLink do go that way to Dubbo.  This is comparable IMO, even if Lithgow is somewhat further from Sydney GPO than Rosewood is from Brisbane GPO.

[colinw]

I cannot think of a comparable good quality stretch of mainline that close to a city that doesn't have a service.

Firstly, it's not good quality at present, that's why we are suggesting an upgrade.

Secondly, might I suggest the bit west of Lithgow, which is currently a bus to Bathurst.  The bus is faster than what the train would be, although CountryLink do go that way to Dubbo.  This is comparable IMO, even if Lithgow is somewhat further from Sydney GPO than Rosewood is from Brisbane GPO.

By "good quality" I meant that, apart from the relatively short Grandchester to Yarongmulu section, it is all concrete sleepered double track on good alignment with modern signalling (including even having ATP trackside infrastructure - Ipswich to Toowoomba is ATP equipped).

The potential of the line is demonstrated by the fact that the highest average speed of any passenger service out of Brisbane is actually the Westlander between Brisbane and Helidon (roughly 120km). The Westlander achieves a much higher average over that 120km than the Tilt does over the same distance (Brisbane to Yandina roughly).

If the Grandchester to Laidley tunnel went ahead, interurban services to Gatton would be way faster than any comparable service out of Brisbane (including Gold Coast).  It would take completion of the Nambour duplication & realignment to even things up.

Regarding Bathurst, I don't really see it as being analogous.  Much further out of the city, and slow, windy and (now) single track, whereas to Helidon only has a few km of poor alignment & single track.

[mufreight]

Spot on Colin W.   

[mufreight]

An update.

The time has now come when Government must give serious thought and commitment to the reinstatement of rail passenger services beyond the present end of commuter rail passenger services at Rosewood to the west into the Lockyer Valley at least as far as Gatton but preferably to Helidon which would enable a co-ordinated service to Toowoomba.

At the present time the Warrigo Highway is reaching capacity in the morning and evening peaks and those commuting each day by private car on reaching the Ipswich Motorway and the Centenary Highway dispair of any improvements that will alleviate their daily crawl and cater for the ever growing volumes of traffic.

A count of Lockyer Valley residents daily commuting out of the region to destinations such as Amberley, Ipswich and Brisbane for employment and education was made in 2007 and showed that some 1800 people per day made the commute from the Lockyer Valley.

The ongoing residential growth throughout the Lockyer region over the past for years estimated to be in excess of 7% each year would have seen the numbers of daily commuters increase to something like 2350 without making any allowance for people who would use a c0-0rdinated service to commute to and from Toowoomba and with the expanded University and Aggriculteral College at Gatton and the first stage of the new super prison opening towards the end of this year those numbers will increase even further.

It is somewhat ludicrous that the current Government of which the then Transport Minister and Member for Ipswich Ms R Nolan in 2007 commented that the extension of passenger rail services west of Rosewood was not warranted because IT WOULD ENCOURAGE URBAN SPRAWL is now advocating major residential development in areas such as Ripley, Upper Flagstone and Yarrabilba where ther is currently no supporting infrastructure and services and to this time no supporting infrastructure for the provision of public transport.

The Lockyer Valley has supporting infrastructure and a rail system that can provide commuter services yest despite both Gatton and Toowoomba being closer than Nambour which is now provided with some 19 daily rail services and a further 11 co-ordinated rail-bus services no services are provided other than 15 less than convenient co-ordinated bus rail services with commuters having to change from bus to train at Rosewood then make a further train to train change at Ipswich.

So much for improved public transport for those forgotten residents west of Rosewood under the current Government with both the Premier and the then Transport Minister who in 2009 both promised a 15 minute off peak train frequency between Brisbane and Ipswich with the Government spin doctors now attempting to claim that they have provided a 15 minute off peak frequency on the Ipswich line as far as Darra which is effectively only an extension of the previous 15 service minute that was operating between Brisbane and Corinda. 

Far short of the promises made in 2009 in respect of the Western Line.

[Stillwater]

Effective passenger rail services in regional Victoria are part of that state's population settlement pattern.  Why doesn't Queensland follow Victoria's lead with good and fast services similar to V/Line trains to Ballarat, Bendigo, Traralgon, etc.  Passenger rail has revitalised these Victorian provincial towns.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th August 2011

Lack of Western passenger rail services

Greetings,

It is time that as a community we bit the bullet and moved forward rapidly with rail.

A recent post by a member at RAIL Back On Track:

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5529.msg65080#msg65080

The time has now come when Government must give serious thought and commitment to the reinstatement of rail passenger services beyond the present end of commuter rail passenger services at Rosewood to the west into the Lockyer Valley at least as far as Gatton but preferably to Helidon which would enable a co-ordinated service to Toowoomba.

At the present time the Warrigo Highway is reaching capacity in the morning and evening peaks and those commuting each day by private car on reaching the Ipswich Motorway and the Centenary Highway dispair of any improvements that will alleviate their daily crawl and cater for the ever growing volumes of traffic.

A count of Lockyer Valley residents daily commuting out of the region to destinations such as Amberley, Ipswich and Brisbane for employment and education was made in 2007 and showed that some 1800 people per day made the commute from the Lockyer Valley.

The ongoing residential growth throughout the Lockyer region over the past for years estimated to be in excess of 7% each year would have seen the numbers of daily commuters increase to something like 2350 without making any allowance for people who would use a co-ordinated service to commute to and from Toowoomba and with the expanded University and Aggriculteral College at Gatton and the first stage of the new super prison opening towards the end of this year those numbers will increase even further.

It is somewhat ludicrous that the current Government of which the then Transport Minister and Member for Ipswich Ms R Nolan in 2007 commented that the extension of passenger rail services west of Rosewood was not warranted because IT WOULD ENCOURAGE URBAN SPRAWL is now advocating major residential development in areas such as Ripley, Upper Flagstone and Yarrabilba where there is currently no supporting infrastructure and services and to this time no supporting infrastructure for the provision of public transport.

The Lockyer Valley has supporting infrastructure and a rail system that can provide commuter services yest despite both Gatton and Toowoomba being closer than Nambour which is now provided with some 19 daily rail services and a further 11 co-ordinated rail-bus services no services are provided other than 15 less than convenient co-ordinated bus rail services with commuters having to change from bus to train at Rosewood then make a further train to train change at Ipswich.

So much for improved public transport for those forgotten residents west of Rosewood under the current Government with both the Premier and the then Transport Minister who in 2009 both promised a 15 minute off peak train frequency between Brisbane and Ipswich with the Government spin doctors now attempting to claim that they have provided a 15 minute off peak frequency on the Ipswich line as far as Darra which is effectively only an extension of the previous 15 service minute that was operating between Brisbane and Corinda.

Far short of the promises made in 2009 in respect of the Western Line.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[aldonius]

Too late I guess, but there were some spelling errors etc if mufreight's post was sent out 'as is'.
This is why the drafting process exists... 

[ozbob]

Too late I guess, but there were some spelling errors etc if mufreight's post was sent out 'as is'.
This is why the drafting process exists... 

For the record, I did correct those.  I left the post as it is on the board ...