Review of 460/461

[#Metro]

I'm just wondering if it is really necessary now to continue to run routes 460 and 461 all the way into the Brisbane CBD.
What did people think about this? I'm thinking along the lines of just running it to Indooroopilly, maybe even UQ, but that seems a bit far, and there are already connecting services which do that job.


http://translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/route-460

[somebody]

Why not combine the revamp here with the revamp of the 45x.

[Golliwog]

I would be wary about chopping the city end of the route off. Yes, I do think that those coming from Forest Lake should use the Richlands line to get into the city now that its available, but the city isn't always the destination. Although, granted in this case there are already many routes that service the corridor from Indooroopilly to the City. Either way, I don't think its something that should be done lightly.

[#Metro]

As far as Indooroopilly might be one option. I too like the connection it allows at Mt Ommaney. Beyond Indooroopilly, there are plenty of other routes to change to.

[Golliwog]

Or you could change where it goes after Indooroopilly all together. For example as a crazy suggestion, it could go to Enoggera Station via Jubilee Tce, or The Gap via The Gap Creek Rd.

[#Metro]

There are many possibilities. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think BUZing the GCL (which would cover the areas in your suggestion) should be the next BUZ. I was thinking UQ, but UQ has enough routes already going to it?

I caught the GCL recently, some lessons to be learned from the experience (will post later).

[somebody]

I would be wary about chopping the city end of the route off. Yes, I do think that those coming from Forest Lake should use the Richlands line to get into the city now that its available, but the city isn't always the destination. Although, granted in this case there are already many routes that service the corridor from Indooroopilly to the City. Either way, I don't think its something that should be done lightly.

465 covers a fair bit of this service to Forest Lake, it's the Inala and Mt Ommaney bits which are a worry with chopping this route.  I also don't see the need for this route to continue into the city anymore.  Truncating at Indooroopilly is one option, but would make zero sense to do so while the 88 is still running there.

[#Metro]

465 covers a fair bit of this service to Forest Lake, it's the Inala and Mt Ommaney bits which are a worry with chopping this route.  I also don't see the need for this route to continue into the city anymore.  Truncating at Indooroopilly is one option, but would make zero sense to do so while the 88 is still running there.

These are great comments, but I couldn't really understand what the connection was between 460/461 and route 88? 

What do people think about using it to go to UQ? Are there alternative places to go to other than the CBD?

[somebody]

These are great comments, but I couldn't really understand what the connection was between 460/461 and route 88? 

Just that a city-Indro route as well as a Indro-Forest Lake route would be pretty illogical.

[#Metro]

Its strange but not illogical. Remember those 88 buses are almost empty anyway.
The only thing more illogical would be to have 88 AND 460/461 running on the same roads AND going all the way into the city.

TransLink must have money to burn... unfortunately it is our money. 

[somebody]

Its strange but not illogical. Remember those 88 buses are almost empty anyway.
The only thing more illogical would be to have 88 AND 460/461 running on the same roads AND going all the way into the city.

I'd think that would be less illogical.  At least it provides increased capacity on the city-Indro corridor.

[#Metro]

Increased capacity is not necessarily always a good thing, context matters, particularly if it comes at the expense of something more beneficial like higher frequency in the suburban section of the route where existing frequencies and options are poor. The City-Indro corridor is already lavished with options, places further out are not.

Is higher capacity on the City-Indro corridor required when the rail line will be getting a capacity boost and there are already empty 88 buses

[somebody]

No, it's not required.  That point we agree on.  There are some stops such as BBC and Indro school which are less well served by the train.

Just saying, that while transfers are a necessary evil, they are still an evil which should be minimised.  This is one are that I am in full agreement with BT.  I don't think that you would agree with that though.

[#Metro]

Context matters, and cannot be ignored. The answer is "it depends".

[Craig W.]

Services are required by the 460,P461.
Leave them as is.

[somebody]

Services are required by the 460,P461.
Leave them as is.

So continued mediocrity from the bus system then, mate?

[david]

P461 just has to go. Even the timetable itself admits that it's faster to get to the City by train, with an interchange at Richlands. There is NOWHERE that P461 serves that isn't served by another bus route.

460 will need to have a major review too. There is grounds for cutting the service back to Indooroopilly, if not Mt Ommaney. The 118 needs to go. 101/102/122 need major reviews.

[Craig W.]

Lets see the Passenger Figures before cutting back the Route 460 first.The 460 services the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre not the Rail Station. Some Passengers from Inala,Forest Lake get off at Mt.Omanney,Indooroopilly Shopping Centre, Culture Centre where the Rail is not close by.

[somebody]

The 118 needs to go.

Why get rid of that?  Doesn't it provide a useful service?  Definitely faster to the Parliament end of town than any other option.  Also interchange at Garden City is useful for South Bank bound trips.

Agree about the 461 though.

Lets see the Passenger Figures before cutting back the Route 460 first.The 460 services the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre not the Rail Station. Some Passengers from Inala,Forest Lake get off at Mt.Omanney,Indooroopilly Shopping Centre, Culture Centre where the Rail is not close by.

I don't think we will get access to those figures.

[#Metro]

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00DBCEnshrZYzN/Green-Gasoline-Chainsaw-45cc-HLYD-45-.jpg

TransLink Chainsaw!

[somebody]

What are you saying?  Chop 460+461+118?

[david]

The 118 needs to go.

Why get rid of that?  Doesn't it provide a useful service?  Definitely faster to the Parliament end of town than any other option.  Also interchange at Garden City is useful for South Bank bound trips.

IF (and it's a pretty big IF), a 100BUZ does go ahead, I feel that there is no need for the 118. 100BUZ will give those from Forest Lake access to the SE Busway, and for those people who do live in Heathwood, it's a simple change at Forest Lake Village.

Lets see the Passenger Figures before cutting back the Route 460 first.The 460 services the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre not the Rail Station. Some Passengers from Inala,Forest Lake get off at Mt.Omanney,Indooroopilly Shopping Centre, Culture Centre where the Rail is not close by.

I never suggested to chop the 460 completely. However, people need to learn how to transfer services. Truncation at Indooroopilly Interchange would provide the best alternative until a Centenary BUZ comes into the equation, which would mean that the 460 would only need to go to Mt Ommaney.

[Craig W.]

So Route 460 drops Passengers to Mt.Omanney then wait for a Route 103 to Inala.
After that change to a 3rd Bus at Inala Route 100 to Forest Lake.
The Forest Lake Passengers will be pleased with that.

[somebody]

So Route 460 drops Passengers to Mt.Omanney then wait for a Route 103 to Inala.
After that change to a 3rd Bus at Inala Route 100 to Forest Lake.
The Forest Lake Passengers will be pleased with that.

Or a train to Richlands and then a 465.  Problem is that the 465 doesn't meet every train.  And the half hourly frequency.

[david]

So Route 460 drops Passengers to Mt.Omanney then wait for a Route 103 to Inala.
After that change to a 3rd Bus at Inala Route 100 to Forest Lake.
The Forest Lake Passengers will be pleased with that.

Sorry...what I meant was to cut off the 460 so it only runs from Inala/Forest Lake to Indooroopilly. Does that clear things up? I highly doubt that there will be a massive inconvenience if this does happen.

[Andrew]

The 118 needs to go.

Why get rid of that?  Doesn't it provide a useful service?  Definitely faster to the Parliament end of town than any other option.  Also interchange at Garden City is useful for South Bank bound trips.

IF (and it's a pretty big IF), a 100BUZ does go ahead, I feel that there is no need for the 118. 100BUZ will give those from Forest Lake access to the SE Busway, and for those people who do live in Heathwood, it's a simple change at Forest Lake Village.

I'm sorry guys but some of your ideas sound good on paper but you show a lack of actual experience with the routes you are suggesting changes to.  The 118 gets good patronage, not only to the city but also significantly to Garden City.  In fact only a year or two ago they upgraded the service because you would leave Heathwood with a full standing load.  The other advantage with the 118 is that it bypasses Inala and the quagmire on Ipswich Road.  Using the busway and Motorways, while a longer route is generally more reliable in my experience.  You do get the occasional accident which forces the buses to divert but on the whole it provides a good reliable fast service.

[somebody]

That's pretty much as I figured.  However, even if the 461 DID get good patronage, I would still recommend cutting it.  Distracting people from a decent PT service involving a transfer by also offering a service which is mediocre at best isn't a good policy, and sucks up the available cash.

[SurfRail]

I agree with Andrew.  The 118 should stay in some form for the Garden City connection as it is carrying its weight.

What about terminating both the 100 and 460 at the Forest Lake Shops and rerouting the 100 to cover the Forest Lake-Inala stretch of the 460?  Local services can cover the rest.

461 should definitely go, in favour of more 460s and better connections to Richlands.  I agree with truncating it to Indooroopilly - along with most other western expresses.  If it means you can operate those services more frequently and by feeding the Ipswich line, then do it.

[somebody]

What about terminating both the 100 and 460 at the Forest Lake Shops and rerouting the 100 to cover the Forest Lake-Inala stretch of the 460?

Less good than the revamp of the Centenary which has previously been proposed, initially by TT, and expanded on by me.  Link: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5480.0

You don't see the merit?  Rather than the 4 full time routes which exist now, you'd just have two.  And much faster.

[david]

If I could, I'd like to retract my statement about the 118. In line with current bus network planning patterns and after careful consideration, I think there is a need for a peak-hour rocket bus out of the Forest Lake/Heathwood area. A lot of BUZ routes have their rocket counterpart, and it's only fair if a potential 100 BUZ has it's peak-hour rocket counterpart too.

[Gazza]

^But now the Richlands branch exists, I thought the reason for a BUZ 100 was an all stops service so people from Forest Lake & Inala can get to destinations on that side of town...
If its a rocket, you miss a lot of them (Plus rockets are inefficient anyway)
Anyone bound purley for the city should be using the rail network, thats why we spent a couple of hundred mil on the spur right?

[david]

I think the 118 would be of more benefit as a cross-town service for those travelling to Garden City and other southside destinations, rather than as a peak-hour rocket bus.

But then again, the 140BUZ has the 142 rocket, the 150BUZ has the 153 rocket, so why can't a 100BUZ have it's 118 rocket?

Anyone bound purley for the city should be using the rail network, thats why we spent a couple of hundred mil on the spur right?

Don't get me started on this. TransLink sends hundreds of buses travel straight down Mains Rd every day without a care in the world that Altandi Station is right there, just waiting to relieve the pressure on those buses. Same with those travelling down Warrigal Rd. Hello...there is Fruitgrove Station right there!

[Golliwog]

I'd like to think they don't encourage it because they're worried about over crowding on the trains and the lack of peak train paths over the Merivale bridge. Which is a fair point now, though it probably started just because they didn't think about it.

[SurfRail]

What about terminating both the 100 and 460 at the Forest Lake Shops and rerouting the 100 to cover the Forest Lake-Inala stretch of the 460?

Less good than the revamp of the Centenary which has previously been proposed, initially by TT, and expanded on by me.  Link: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5480.0

You don't see the merit?  Rather than the 4 full time routes which exist now, you'd just have two.  And much faster.

I don't currently have the time to review the KMZ, but in the image in the first post I can't quite make out what conencts Mt Ommaney to Richlands (if anything).

[somebody]

I don't currently have the time to review the KMZ, but in the image in the first post I can't quite make out what conencts Mt Ommaney to Richlands (if anything).

'Twas meant to be a review of the 4xx system.  103 which connects Mt Ommaney to Darra could remain.  Also the green route goes to Darra.  Is there a need for a single seat journey to Richlands?

[SurfRail]

I don't currently have the time to review the KMZ, but in the image in the first post I can't quite make out what conencts Mt Ommaney to Richlands (if anything).

'Twas meant to be a review of the 4xx system.  103 which connects Mt Ommaney to Darra could remain.  Also the green route goes to Darra.  Is there a need for a single seat journey to Richlands?

Probably not, but travelling from Forest Lake would involve 2 changes and a longer travel time and route based on where the green one appears to go. 

I don't have a problem with there being only one route between Richlands and Forest Lake shops, that makes the most sense to me.  The 460 and 465 are both effectively all-stoppers along there due to the stop placement.

[somebody]

The 103 still connects Inala and Mt Ommaney.  You can interchange from the 100 (or 466) there, although that does leave some of Forest Lake Blvd significantly less well connected to Mt Ommaney.  Is that a big deal?  I would have thought that Indooroopilly was the main shopping for this part of town.

[#Metro]

I was out at My Ommaney today.

I think that route 460 should be chopped back to Indooroopilly Shopping Centre.
You have 444 BUZ and hopefully BUZ 400 will be coming along soon as well, people can transfer to those for a quick run to the CBD.

The whole area needs to be reviewed, but IMHO frequent feeders should be possible. Part of me wants to advocate a park and ride at Mt Ommaney, but one already is going up at Jindalee.

[somebody]

I think that route 460 should be chopped back to Indooroopilly Shopping Centre.

Doesn't make any sense while the 88 is still running.

[#Metro]

why?

Route 88 does get pax, however, it cost twice as much as a normal BUZ, and everyone who catches it now could just catch a bus from 8 Mile Plains to the CBD and change (5 mins) to BUZ 444 or in the future BUZ 400.

But what does this have to do with 460?