Massive public transport price increases - what advice do we now give tourists

[Mozz]

I am an active member of the Couchsurfing initiative http://www.couchsurfing.org and host many people from over the sea. Apart from the outrageous $15 airtrain fare + standard train fare + programmed ripoff amount,  PT in SEQ for tourists has been adequate, particularly with tourists using the daily or off peak daily paper ticket to travel around the brisbane and greater brisbane area.

However as we all know, no more tickets except for single journey paper tickets, and no capping on gocards (except seniors) making our public transport one of the most expensive in Australia if not the world the journey travelled.

I reside at Oxley in the southwest Zone Three and the three zone travel appeals to the majority of those tourists who stay at my home.

I was thinking of advising those who arrive at the airport to buy a gocard and top it up at the fare machines at the domestic and international airport and on their way to my Oxley address to break the journey at Eagle Junction (to take in the lovely views of the station and surrounds) and then to change trains to an Ipswich bound train and detraining at Oxley.

The majority of travellers arrive at the Roma Street Railway station where they can purchase and top up a go card at this location.

Once they have finished using it they can then grab a refund on the card and any unspent money as long as they can get to a location that does refunds.

The questions I have and I have searched the translink website - I understand the limited use tourist gocard which was floated isn't a goer now.

Apart from Roma/Central where can you get a refund on a gocard?
Is there any other advice we could give tourists to the city re getting around on public transport?

[colinw]

What advice to we give tourists?

How about "Visit Melbourne ..."?

I work with a number of people from various European countries.  The only ones who think Brisbane public transport is anything other than a complete joke are a couple of the poms.  A visit to any part of the UK other than London will soon show why.

Many European cities of size 250,000 or smaller manage to do better than Brisbane on all fronts: service frequency, fares, interchange, hours of operation, ease of use ...

[somebody]

The BUZ services are good.  But off that network, I would have to agree with your evaluation colinw!

[#Metro]

What advice to we give tourists?

make sure your flight lands in Brisbane before 8pm- probably by 7pm at the latest--- or be gouged!
This is something that should go into Lonely Planet!

[WTN]

What advice to we give tourists?

make sure your flight lands in Brisbane before 8pm- probably by 7pm at the latest--- or be gouged!
This is something that should go into Lonely Planet!

Or any Brisbane/SEQ visitor's guide for that matter. It should also include a recommendation to buy a go card on arrival if one wishes to use public transport beyond the airport to CBD.

[#Metro]

Good idea- maybe there should be pre-loaded go card vending machine at Brisbane Domestic and Brisbane International airports 

[ozbob]

According to the TransLink web site (click here  ) you cannot buy a go card from the AVVM.  I thought there was some special go cards available at the airport (go cards with higher amounts to cover the high Airtrain fare).  Anyone know?


The lack of preparation for tourists is another go concern ...   (add to the long list ...)

[#Metro]

Why does it accept EFTPOS but not credit card?  Can anyone shed light on that puzzle?
There are a lot of cash only machines as well, and AIUI it is cash or coins not both!

What kind of business makes it difficult for people to  use its services?

[#Metro]

"Furthermore, as an added convenience, the ferry customer service centre located adjacent to the Riverside CityCat terminal also now sells $20 pre-loaded Go Cards so passengers can pick one up before jumping on board."

http://www.translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/media-releases/release/267

Hmm. So they haven't figured out the vending machine with the pre-loaded go Card in it.
They can make a packet of potato chips drop from a vending machine but not a pre-loaded Go Card... maybe behind the desk at the Airport rail stations might be one option. But if it is not obvious, no-one will buy one.

[Gazza]

Hmm. So they haven't figured out the vending machine with the pre-loaded go Card in it.

^The newer machines on the Busways sell preloaded cards though...That's how I got my adult one.

[#Metro]

Interesting!
Do you have photographic proof? 

[p858snake]

Hmm. So they haven't figured out the vending machine with the pre-loaded go Card in it.

^The newer machines on the Busways sell preloaded cards though...That's how I got my adult one.

Interesting!
Do you have photographic proof? 

Not a Busway, But I know the Chermside Interchange's AVM has the option to sell them but i've never used it (I used my local train station).

[WTN]

Visit any busway ticket machine and you'll find a "Buy Adult go card" button in the column of go card buttons. I haven't tried buying a card but the option is definitely there.

I also have spare go cards for occasional users, like family members, friends and visitors. Makes it easy for me to take them on the go!

[Gazza]

Interesting!
Do you have photographic proof?  

The user interface is slightly different too. Instead sifting through the alphabetical list of destinations (Option is no longer there), you just pick the 'low zone' and 'high zone' of your trip. The side of the machine has a sticker with the rail map and bus zone map to guide users in picking the right zones, as well as a go card users guide for people buying a card for the first time.

[justanotheruser]

Why does it accept EFTPOS but not credit card?   Can anyone shed light on that puzzle?
There are a lot of cash only machines as well, and AIUI it is cash or coins not both!

What kind of business makes it difficult for people to  use its services?

plenty do.  Often it is the ones that you don't have a choice in using

Interesting!
Do you have photographic proof? 

The user interface is slightly different too. Instead sifting through the alphabetical list of destinations (Option is no longer there), you just pick the 'low zone' and 'high zone' of your trip. The side of the machine has a sticker with the rail map and bus zone map to guide users in picking the right zones, as well as a go card users guide for people buying a card for the first time.

Wow you mean they finally introduced the choosing of zones.  Maybe my constantly telling them they should do this especially for those who live on zone boundaries got listened to!!!!

[ozbob]

What is needed is a clear statement from TransLink as to what the full options are for tourists, and I don't mean paper single tickets.

Where the facilities are for preloaded go cards, variations of those and so forth.  What arrangements have been made (if any) for dedicated go card dispensers and cash return facilities when leaving eg. at the Airport stations.  Huh??   Hello, two weeks to go ...

Another communication vacuum looming.  Why are they so inept?

Footnote:  Wonder what the tourist industry groups think??   Good story angle there ...   

[Mozz]

I understand a representation has been made to the Queensland Tourism Industry Council.

[Mozz]

I have done up a pretty familar tourist public transport journey example of a single day (couchsurfers who stay with me at Oxley quite enjoy this tourist view of Brisbane) to show the impact on tourists to our great city the 17 January 2011 regime being implemented by Translink (Fig Tree Pocket being Lone Pine):

Paper Ticket                    Gocard    Oxley to CBD                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak CBD to Southbank                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak Southbank to CBD                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak CBD to MtCootha                                 $4.60                            $3.13   off peak Mount Cootha to Fig Tree Pocket         $3.90                         $2.26   off peak Fig tree pocket to CBD                         $5.40                            $3.13   off peak CBD to Oxley                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak           Current Daily $9.40                                 $32.50                    $20.40

[ozbob]

MTR tourist info  --> http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/whatsnew/tourist_index.html

TransLink?

[Mozz]

One Australian dollar is around $7.7 Hong Kong dollars so for around $7.15 Australian you can have unlimited travel on the tourist day pass ($55 HK) for a whole day, being a 24 hour period on every mode of public transport except the airport line.

This sounds like a good idea let's implement this type of fare structure here in Queensland.

[ozbob]

 

[Fares_Fair]

I have done up a pretty familar tourist public transport journey example of a single day (couchsurfers who stay with me at Oxley quite enjoy this tourist view of Brisbane) to show the impact on tourists to our great city the 17 January 2011 regime being implemented by Translink (Fig Tree Pocket being Lone Pine):

Paper Ticket                    Gocard    Oxley to CBD                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak CBD to Southbank                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak Southbank to CBD                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak CBD to MtCootha                                 $4.60                            $3.13   off peak Mount Cootha to Fig Tree Pocket         $3.90                         $2.26   off peak Fig tree pocket to CBD                         $5.40                            $3.13   off peak CBD to Oxley                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak           Current Daily $9.40                                 $32.50                    $20.40

whoa !!!
Queensland, the Tourist Ripoff State  

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

I have done up a pretty familar tourist public transport journey example of a single day (couchsurfers who stay with me at Oxley quite enjoy this tourist view of Brisbane) to show the impact on tourists to our great city the 17 January 2011 regime being implemented by Translink (Fig Tree Pocket being Lone Pine):

Paper Ticket                    Gocard    Oxley to CBD                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak CBD to Southbank                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak Southbank to CBD                                 $3.90                            $2.26   off peak CBD to MtCootha                                 $4.60                            $3.13   off peak Mount Cootha to Fig Tree Pocket         $3.90                         $2.26   off peak Fig tree pocket to CBD                         $5.40                            $3.13   off peak CBD to Oxley                                         $5.40                            $3.68   peak           Current Daily $9.40                                 $32.50                    $20.40

Surely some of those trips would be continuations though!

[Mozz]

Maybe the last CBD to Oxley could be a continuation but I also recommend travellers visit roma street parklands which would be at least an hour more likely an hour and a half and perhaps the southbank back to CBD before travelling to MtCootha.

Remember these people are tourists and want to see Brisbane, it's about the journey for them as well as the destination. They don't always know exactly where to go and sometimes it's not all that important, so they aren't rushing from point to point trying to fit into the inqdequate 60 minute timeframe for continuation travel.

The more I think about it the more I agree with Ozbob and his link to the MTR, we should have a tourist gocard like other mature integrated ticketing systems throughout the world which has reasonably priced capping.

[#Metro]

Ha ha ha All the locals will be buying tourist go card.

[Stillwater]

Successive 15 per cent fare increases may be designed to adjust the public subsidy to a point where it could be attractive to allow (more) private operators into the SEQ network, as is the case in Melbourne.  As we have seen, the private bus operator on the Sunshine Coast wants to give drivers minimal wage increases, so the introduction of private bus/rail companies would result in a curbing public sector employee wage demands, or the government could threaten to hand more operations to the private sector, which would be like throwing the (Christian) drivers to the lions of private enterprise.

Humm... and interesting possibility.

[#Metro]

There are already private operators operating under the subsidy ratio in force now.

I want to see where these efficiencies come from exactly. Simply having private for private sake isn't convincing, although it can work- as you can see in Melbourne, Metro wants to increase service frequencies and lobbies for that actively. When was the last time you heard QR lobby for increased service frequencies?

And what would be franchised- TransLink too? It theoretically could be done, not sure how practical because it doesn't seem to have been done before. IMHO Franchising operators and demanding increased patronage through incentive payments doesn't seem very convincing, IMHO that is the role of the government in designing a network. If you can only run a train backwards and forwards on a rail and only have a set amount of cash to run services, then I don't really see how more patronage is going to come about simply because it is "private" now.

[somebody]

as you can see in Melbourne, Metro wants to increase service frequencies and lobbies for that actively. When was the last time you heard QR lobby for increased service frequencies?

That's exactly what I would expect be happening if privatisation occurred here.

[ozbob]

Transport for London visitor and tourists maps --> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/visitor-guide.pdf

[ozbob]

Visitors to Perth --> http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/UsingTransperth/VisitorstoPerth/tabid/118/Default.aspx

[ozbob]

TransLink (search the site for tourist information)  

--> http://www.translink.com.au/site-information/contact-us-and-help/contact-us-in-person

Contact us in person

Transport Information Centre

Located at King George Square bus station, near the Ann Street entrance.

Get expert advice and information on public transport, walking and cycling in Brisbane.

Monday to Friday: 8am to 6pm
Saturday: 9am to 5pm
Sunday and public holidays: closed

Visitor Information Centre

Located opposite the Wintergarden in the Queen Street Mall.

Get tourist and visitor information including advice on using public transport for the first time.

Monday to Thursday: 9am to 5.30pm
Friday: 9am to 7pm
Saturday: 9am to 5pm
Sunday: 9.30am to 4.30pm

LOL  what a shambles ...

[ozbob]

Ha ha ha All the locals will be buying tourist go card.

Other jurisdictions seem able to have products for tourists on public transport.   Clearly SEQ is too dumb ...

One of the reasons why go card lite was abandoned no doubt was the massive fare evasion it would have lead too ...  even with the standard go card the potential for fare evasion by casual users is significant.  They just don't touch off as it suits ..  most of the system is open and even at the closed stations most of the time some gates are open anyway.  

A day pass for tourists set at a flat fee for unrestricted travel would avoid a number of issues.  It is not rocket science ...

[ozbob]

Sydney pass --> http://www.sydneybuses.info/tourist-services/sydneypass/

[somebody]

Sydney pass --> http://www.sydneybuses.info/tourist-services/sydneypass/

I think that is new.  $116 for 3 days isn't exactly cheap.

Last I heard the daytripper which doesn't include the tourist services cost $20 for 1 day.

[ozbob]

The Sydney pass includes $30 of Airport Link travel, taking that into account it is good for tourists who wish to really use the services tourist and general public transport. 

[ozbob]

Media Release 9 January 2011

SEQ:  Fare changes impact on tourists

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said tourists and visitors need to carefully examine the options for ticketing for public transport travel in 2011 as most types of paper tickets are removed from sale with effect 17th January 2011 (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"According to the TransLink web site 'go card will replace all multi-trip paper tickets - including all daily, weekly, monthly and Queensland Rail one-third student paper tickets' (1). Tourists have found the daily paper tickets particularly an affordable way of travelling around on our public transport, accessing local tourist destinations and contributing to the local economy."

A typical tourist travel profile with fares from 17th January 2011:

                                                   Paper Ticket                           Gocard 
Oxley to CBD                                   $5.40                          $3.68   peak
CBD to Southbank                            $3.90                          $2.26   off peak
Southbank to CBD                            $3.90                          $2.26   off peak
CBD to MtCootha                             $4.60                          $3.13   off peak
Mount Cootha to Fig Tree Pocket       $3.90                          $2.26   off peak
Fig tree pocket to CBD                     $5.40                          $3.13   off peak
CBD to Oxley                                  $5.40                          $3.68   peak
       
                     Totals                     $32.50                         $20.40 

The current paper daily ticket is  $9.40

"The removal of the daily tickets and the lack of a daily cap on the go card is going to impact significantly on the cost of travel for tourists, as for citizens in south-east Queensland.  If a tourist buys single paper tickets for a travel profile that formerly cost $9.40 they will pay $32.50, over 200% fare increase!  Even with the go card it will cost $20.40, over 100% fare increase!

"There is lack of incentive travel tickets for tourists in south-east Queensland as in other tourist destinations such as Hong Kong (2) and Sydney (3).  The lack of suitable ticketing products must be cause for alarm in the tourist industry. There is very little information on the TransLink website directed to tourists, contrast this to London (4).

"The fare changes and and the fare structure on the go card is yet another example of extremely poorly thought out public transport policy in Queensland."

References:

1. http://www.translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/changes-to-fares-and-ticketing-in-2011

2. MTR tourist info  http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/whatsnew/tourist_index.html

3. Sydney pass  http://www.sydneybuses.info/tourist-services/sydneypass/

4. Transport for London visitor and tourists maps  http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/visitor-guide.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Universal capping on the go card (as for the myki for example) would avoid all these perverse impacts and encourage maximum public transport utilisation, congestion reduction, lessened environmental impacts and reduced road trauma.  

As we constantly suggested for years the fare structure for the go card could have been done a lot better than the present dogs breakfast ...

[justanotheruser]

Sydney pass --> http://www.sydneybuses.info/tourist-services/sydneypass/

he ineeatin thing for me in the info was tha the information centres are selling tickets again. Some suit decided to stop them selling tickets and have them give information only. It meant our sales of tickets doubled!

[isoprophlex]

Hi there,

Thanks ozbob for the continual updates on the TRANSLink affairs.

Universal capping is required now.

Seniors - capped GoCards
Students - capped GoCards
Adults - capped GoCards
TOURISTS - capped GoCards

TRANSLink like so many other users mention should take example of the MiKi that is used in Melbourne. Initiate Daily Capped Tickets Now TRANSLink

Last time I checked the true definition of 'public transport' is for the public

[ozbob]

Welcome isoprophlex!  No worries, agree wholeheartedly about capping ...