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Author Topic: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study  (Read 10713 times)

Offline ozbob

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Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« on: October 01, 2010, 09:10:37 PM »
Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study

--> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/salisburytobeaudesert

Quote
The Department of Transport and Main Roads has commenced the Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study. The study will plan a rail alignment for a future dedicated double-track passenger rail line between Salisbury and Beaudesert.

Population growth is one of the biggest challenges facing south east Queensland into the future. This study will help us plan for the transport needs of growing and future communities between Salisbury and Beaudesert. It is important we prepare now for this growth to connect communities with goods, services and employment.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 12:44:12 PM »
I am surprised no one has commented on this yet. I would have thought those advocating public transport (as should we all) would be giving strong support to this proposal as it will mean a great deal to proposed new major housing developments along the route all the way to Beaudesert which is, itself, becoming a growth area. It will help many thousands of cars off the roads but only if it is built in a timely fashion to coincide with the housing proposals at the likes of Flagstone.

The proposal is for a double track electrified line branching off from Salisbury and located beside the standard gauge (dual gauge) freight line as far as Kagaru before it branches off across country to terminate on the location of the old Beaudesert rail station. It will give commuters a fast train service right into Brisbane. Of course this is another reason that the proposed undeground rail link from Yeerongpilly be built sooner rather than later.

Regards
curator49

colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 12:54:00 PM »
There has been commentary on this in other threads, particularly the need to get to Browns Plains / Greenbank ASAP, the need to service Flagstone if it is to be a satellite city of 250K, and how imperative CRR is to make any of this work.

somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 01:20:20 PM »
There has been commentary on this in other threads, particularly the need to get to Browns Plains / Greenbank ASAP, the need to service Flagstone if it is to be a satellite city of 250K, and how imperative CRR is to make any of this work.

Where will all those 250K people work?  Hopefully not a large portion in Brisbane, a la the Gold Coast!

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 01:30:46 PM »
Groan. More dormitory suburbs which have no local CBD and instead all flood into Brisbane to work in the morning and then flood back in the afternoon.

At least springfield has its own mini CBD and uni there. Same with Ipswich.
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colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 01:55:50 PM »
Apologies, I got that wrong by a factor of 2x.  They only plan 120K people at this time.

http://www.ulda.qld.gov.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=396

colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 01:57:04 PM »
The one that really gets my goat is Yarrabilba.
http://www.ulda.qld.gov.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=386

50K people, no railway at all (the old line from Bethania via Logan Village is planned to be ripped up), and the local road infrastructure is just not up to it.

somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 02:36:04 PM »
All these things make Sydney look like a star in town planning.

Surely we can at least fill in the underdeveloped bits between the North Pine River and the Logan Motorway, first?  Or are they all, in fact, too hilly?  Looking at Brisbane in Google Earth you do see a fair bit of blank space.

And don't get me started on the lack of employment centres outside the Bowen Hills/Milton/Gabba ring, besides Ipswich and UQ St Lucia.

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 11:25:14 PM »
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/salisburytobeaudesert
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/fb8f90b9-0274-488c-80c3-2d055d213f3c/s2b_newsletter_map.pdf

Some general comments:

The line proposed does not look very useful, the busy corridor is Sunnybank and Browns plains. The rail line misses that.
While a feeder bus system and giant park and ride station would work, I feel that this would be a second-best option.
The best option would be to have rail near where people are.

There is a large median and what appears to be space left for expansion of Beaudesert etc road. If the median was removed for road lanes and the freed up space plus the road reserve used for a rail alignment, this might work. The Joondalup and Mandurah lines in Perth both run in freeway medians show that this can work. And while this is not perfect, IMHO is is much better than running rail in a whoop-whoop location where it isn't as useful.

“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 11:30:45 PM »
Proposal:

Run the rail line using the freight corridor, but then let the line emerge into Beaudesert road using space
reclaimed from the median and the road expansion shoulder. Only a few intersections need to be grade separated,
and this is possible (as in Perth).

Place the stations far apart to enable higher speed. I've aimed for about 2-3 km separation at least.
This is only an idea, comments welcome.

Stations:

Acacia Ridge
Sunnybank Hills
Drewvale
Browns Plains Shopping Centre
(Runs into the median of the Mt Lindsay Highway, like Perth)
Boronia Heights
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 11:32:49 PM »
Sunnybank Hills is a huge PT area. Rail line should not miss this area.



Through Drewvale- the location in the median of the suburb makes bus routes travel the shortest distance to rail.



Off to Browns Plains (I mean how could Browns Plains NOT be served????)


Through Greenbank
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:35:31 PM by tramtrain »
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 11:43:40 PM »
http://www.nearmap.com/?q=@-31.844803,115.796333&ll=-31.844803,115.796333&z=18&t=k&nmd=20100919

How it's done in Perth. The station is located within the freeway median. Of course Perth needs feeder buses to feed the rail system, except there is no space for a bus-rail interchange in the median of the freeway. So where does Perth put the bus interchange? Right on top of the rail station, on a level directly above the train station. It's remarkable.

This is what you will see if you drive down the Mitchell Freeway:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beach+Road,+Perth&sll=-27.46758,153.027892&sspn=0.031452,0.070038&ie=UTF8&hq=Beach+Road,&hnear=Perth+Western+Australia,+Australia&ll=-31.845569,115.796338&spn=0.000884,0.003211&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-31.845751,115.796402&panoid=sI72OqhEd9lgriekG0s1BA&cbp=12,3.13,,0,-3.07
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 11:50:50 PM »
Beaudesert Road, Acacia Ridge. As you can see, its wide, very wide.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beaudesert+Road,+Acacia+Ridge,+Queensland,+Australia&sll=-31.845788,115.796102&sspn=0.001786,0.006421&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beaudesert+Rd,+Acacia+Ridge+Queensland+4110,+Australia&ll=-27.59903,153.039718&spn=0.000491,0.001605&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-27.59908,153.039867&panoid=zG4j8jcfmzkIvPtTf3unCQ&cbp=12,159.7,,0,8.28

Showing the median:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beaudesert+Road,+Acacia+Ridge,+Queensland,+Australia&sll=-31.845788,115.796102&sspn=0.001786,0.006421&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beaudesert+Rd,+Acacia+Ridge+Queensland+4110,+Australia&ll=-27.60867,153.048174&spn=0.001982,0.006421&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-27.60867,153.048174&panoid=NG3JK1EIVwPQVgkLunFlBg&cbp=12,309.05,,0,3.57

And the shoulders:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beaudesert+Road,+Acacia+Ridge,+Queensland,+Australia&sll=-31.845788,115.796102&sspn=0.001786,0.006421&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beaudesert+Rd,+Acacia+Ridge+Queensland+4110,+Australia&ll=-27.619869,153.049985&spn=0.001982,0.006421&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-27.619869,153.049985&panoid=WsDeEQkicJ6DVml2gmrqBg&cbp=12,187.83,,0,2.59

Both
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beaudesert+Road,+Acacia+Ridge,+Queensland,+Australia&sll=-31.845788,115.796102&sspn=0.001786,0.006421&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beaudesert+Rd,+Acacia+Ridge+Queensland+4110,+Australia&ll=-27.643276,153.042747&spn=0.000991,0.003211&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-27.643276,153.042747&panoid=82jI-6B0vqjaB0SEKRpkBw&cbp=12,163.87,,0,9.36

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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 08:21:03 AM »
I see two problems with your idea.

Firstly, intersections. In you Perth example its a highway they do it with so every road that crosses the railway already has to be in a bridge to cross the road and the high way may or may not have on/off ramps to access the road. Beaudesert Rd has a whole lot of intersections so how do you propose this be done, when we are trying to remove non grade seperated crossings?

Secondly, road safety. The median you propose to remove is there for a reason: To seperate opposing lanes of traffic, which is vital when you have high speed traffic with a large proportion of heavy vehicles.
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 08:31:40 AM »
Quote
Firstly, intersections. In you Perth example its a highway they do it with so every road that crosses the railway already has to be in a bridge to cross the road and the high way may or may not have on/off ramps to access the road. Beaudesert Rd has a whole lot of intersections so how do you propose this be done, when we are trying to remove non grade seperated crossings?

You need to grade separate. Just like the Perth example.
The main intersections would probably remain open, and there are only two or three of these at most.
Helawell Rd
Compton Road

The other ones are small intersections.
The Transport dept can decide which ones to keep open/closed.

This will be a bit of pain in at the start, but once complete the utility can be realised.
If the cheaper 'lazy' alignment is taken, then the inconvenience taken by the Dept of TMR's route is locked in forever.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 08:38:56 AM by tramtrain »
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 08:35:27 AM »
Here is another Perth example:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Perth&sll=-27.405346,153.049476&sspn=0.251759,0.560303&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Perth+Western+Australia,+Australia&ll=-32.046297,115.854494&spn=0.001878,0.006421&t=h&z=18

This might add some cost, however, the entire new metro rail project was one of the cheapest rail projects per/km
that I can ever recall in Australia.

Quote
Secondly, road safety. The median you propose to remove is there for a reason: To seperate opposing lanes of traffic, which is vital when you have high speed traffic with a large proportion of heavy vehicles.

Well I would expect speeds on the Mitchell Freeway and Kwinana Freeways to be in the order of 100/km per hour. There are no traffic lights on freeways and all traffic is high speed.

Beaudesert road has traffic lights and the speed limits on Beaudesert road would be considerably lower. If the level of risk is acceptable in Perth for a 100km/hour freeway carrying 6 lanes of traffic at high speed, then I do not see why a smaller and considerably slower arterial with many traffic lights like Beaudesert road would be a problem.
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 08:44:07 AM »
Beaudesert Rd IIRC is something like 80km/hr, at least out past Compton Rd it is (rellies used to live out that way). The difference between your idea and the Perth example is that they use the rail line to seperate the two sides. Concrete barriers I expect would be employed to keep stray vehicles off the tracks there. Putting traffic close together like that isn't exactly going to cause accidents, but would increase the possible damage that could be caused by a wayward car.
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Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 08:48:01 AM »
This is Google maps on the freeway at Murdoch station.
While the rail line runs in the freeway median, a concrete barrier is used to separate rail/road traffic.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Kwinana+Freeway&sll=-32.068302,115.851388&sspn=0.00751,0.025685&ie=UTF8&t=h&split=1&filter=0&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.9&hq=Kwinana+Freeway&hnear=&ll=-32.067438,115.850281&spn=0.00751,0.025685&z=16&layer=c&cbll=-32.067438,115.850281&panoid=oeaJcGFQWlm-1pfUKWd1WA&cbp=12,154.81,,0,9.14

Perth knows about this possibility, and has done things to prevent the risk.
I don't know of any incident in Perth, despite the length of the freeway median railway reaching many kilometers,
of a single accident involving the train/traffic ever.
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Posts are my independent commuter view- not RailBOT's or other party.

colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 08:49:28 AM »
Beaudesert Road alignment and gradients are far from suitable for a rail line.  Its not like those lovely flat, straight freeways in Perth which were ideally suited for rail.

Any line along Beaudesert Road, or off the Beenleigh line via Sunnybank Hills, is going to encounter significant obstacles and cost a fortune to build compared to going via the interstate corridor.

The solution for Sunnybank Hills is BUZ routes and frequent feeders to the Beenleigh line IMHO.  Very long term there may be potential for LRT along the likes of Mains / Pinelands road.

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 09:05:33 AM »
I've looked along this road, and I don't think it is a hilly as it is being made out to be.
What is the gradient for an arterial road/Beaudesert road? I don't think artierals or the mount lindsay hwy are allowed to be that steep either because trucks use them and there is a lot of traffic. And in any case there are treatments for that.


http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=115816746401444293872.000491e9ef1d5eb07b857&ll=-27.611358,153.051335&spn=0.007929,0.017509&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=-27.611358,153.051335&panoid=XxmlUzrav76yTs5pCunl1w&cbp=12,179.47,,0,8.42

There is already a bus every 60 seconds along the Mains road corridor, and a significant amount of bus traffic from that is generated in the Browns Plains/Calamvale/Sunnybank Hills area. Rail would take them off the street.

Yes, costs will likely be higher. Although how much higher and whether this would be outweighed by the increase in convenience and mobility (which is the increase in the number of useful destinations one could access) remains to be calculated.
But costs are not the only criteria. The cheapest rail line is no rail line. You would just get everyone to drive and place the costs to do so on the shoulders of the individual. Utility and convenience from a more useful line also needs to be factored in. The suggested alignment along the interstate misses most of the areas where the demand originates.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 09:08:10 AM by tramtrain »
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Posts are my independent commuter view- not RailBOT's or other party.

somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2010, 09:14:02 AM »
Just because the housing on the west side of the rail line isn't there now, doesn't mean it can't go in.  That's the problem with your argument, TT.  Trouts Rd would need to be more developed too to support a rail line.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 10:06:55 AM »
TT, I never said Perth didn't have measures in place to prevent car/train interaction. I assumed they did.

Colinw, I would think you wouldn't really have feeders to the Beenleigh line. Rather cross routes between the new Beaudesert line and the Beenleigh line which would be pretty much the same, but would allow much better use of the network. More 'webbing' than just an attachment to a purely radial route.
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Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 11:40:11 AM »
Let's get real. The dramas (NIMBYs) and major costs involved in resumptions of private property, grade separation at many intersections (not just one or two), topography and so on are making the Sunnybank Hills/Browns Plains concept unworkable. Beaudesert Road/Mount Lindsay Highway is no where near wide enough to accomodate a double track rail line for the length involved. Grade separation at Hellawell/Learoyd Road, Algester/Jackson Road, Compton Road, Ormskirk Street, Kameruka Street, Nottingham/Honeysuckle Way, Algester Road/Illaweena Street, Logan Motorway, Various off/on ramps through the Johnson Road/Browns Plains Road overpass section. There is rather a steep climb out of Acacia Ridge up to the Hellawell Road intersection. The costs would be astronomical.

The proposed corridor Salisbury to Kagaru follows the standard gauge line to Kagaru will impact on relatively few homes. The recently opened Beaudesert Road overpass at Acacia Ridge was built in such a way to allow for the proposed expansion. The line would serve, Acacia Ridge.
Algester/Parkinson/Calamvale and could also service Sunnybank Hills using a bus connection. It would also serve Larapinta/Pallara (new growth areas and industrial estates), Browns Plains (bus connection will harvest a much larger area), Forestdale/Hillcrest, Boronia Heights, Greenbank, North Maclean/New Beith, Flagstone, Undullah (bus connections Jimboomba/Cedar Grove), Kagaru and so on. Stations are not proposed yet for some of these locations but the growth in these areas is already happening. Proposed populations for the State Government supported mini (?) cities in this area does not mean all those people will travel into the Brisbane CBD to work but for those that do a fast train trip will preclude their need to buy a car to get there. The plan that has been put forward in the report proposes a grid of interconnecting bus services linking to the railway.

For once, it appears to me, that the Government is being proactive and trying to determine the construction of a rail corridor into a fast developing region BEFORE it is built and all those people that have purchased their new home also have bought two or three cars and become dependent solely on their motor vehicles.




colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2010, 12:07:44 PM »
Thanks curator49, well put.  :-t

I really do think it would be madness to consider trying to drive a rail corridor through Sunnybank Hills when we have the interstate corridor available nearby.

This is one case where I strongly endorse working with what we already have, and letting buses fill in between.

Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2010, 12:12:53 PM »
One thing extra I should say is that I appreciate Tramtrain's comments and the obvious great deal of thought that has gone into Tramtrain's proposal.

However, I would hope we can purely address the Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study and comment on that issue alone. I support the proposal as shown in the Government outline but obviously there could be some tinkering to benefit everyone. I use the train whenever I go into the city, but have to drive from Algester to Altandi, Sunnybank or Coopers Plains stations. I will probably not live long enough to see a suburban rail line past our house but if it were to happen before I meet my Maker, I would most certainly catch the train at Algester station.

colinw

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2010, 12:16:43 PM »
I can appreciate where TT is coming from with the proposal, and such a route would be a great asset if we could afford to have it built.  I just don't think it stacks up against use of the existing corridor.

As far as "greenfielding" new suburban rail in Brisbane goes, the ones we really need and should pay the big $ for are CRR of course, and Trouts Road.  Beyond that I suspect an underground connector from Alderley to Roma St & CRR will be necessary as well.

But for Browns Plains & places south, use the interstate.

I'd hope to see something running to Greenbank by the early 2020s at latest.  Once CRR is running in 2016 there's really nothing stopping it.

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2010, 02:22:49 PM »
Thanks for all the comments, good discussion.

Quote
Just because the housing on the west side of the rail line isn't there now, doesn't mean it can't go in.  That's the problem with your argument, TT.  Trouts Rd would need to be more developed too to support a rail line.
Not sure what this had to do with Trouts Road, but the reason why there isn't development along the Western Side of the interstate line is because it is floodplain which shows up in the Brisbane City Council Flood flag map.

I also think that serving present needs is preferable.
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/community-support/emergency-management/flooding/flood-flag-map/index.htm
Quote
Colinw, I would think you wouldn't really have feeders to the Beenleigh line. Rather cross routes between the new Beaudesert line and the Beenleigh line which would be pretty much the same, but would allow much better use of the network. More 'webbing' than just an attachment to a purely radial route.

Feeders to the Beenleigh line might work if the Beenleigh line is faster. Which is why the ideas re: Skip stop and 2-tier Beenleigh services have been floating around. Colinw might have a point though, because after Cross River Rail, maybe the Beenleigh line won't be slow. As you have pointed out, much better to jump on 130 series than catch the train, which I think is really sad actually. I really don't see how this area is going to hold up with just more buses. You would have to construct a busway to Browns Plains really, or put on LRT, and that's when you need all the tunneling etc. $$$$
Quote

Let's get real. The dramas (NIMBYs) and major costs involved in resumptions of private property, grade separation at many intersections (not just one or two), topography and so on are making the Sunnybank Hills/Browns Plains concept unworkable. Beaudesert Road/Mount Lindsay Highway is no where near wide enough to accomodate a double track rail line for the length involved. Grade separation at Hellawell/Learoyd Road, Algester/Jackson Road, Compton Road, Ormskirk Street, Kameruka Street, Nottingham/Honeysuckle Way, Algester Road/Illaweena Street, Logan Motorway, Various off/on ramps through the Johnson Road/Browns Plains Road overpass section. There is rather a steep climb out of Acacia Ridge up to the Hellawell Road intersection. The costs would be astronomical.

Maybe you are right, but it won't hurt to put the suggestion in. See if this project were the Eastern Busway or the Northern Busway, it would just be rammed through the suburb, no matter what. Multiple tunnels on busway, gradients, multiple bridges, cuttings, stations in trenches are no problem, nor is housing demolition or whatnot.  Anything goes with busway, even costs-- reaching astronomical unit costs does not seem to deter busway. But rail lines?? suddenly it is all different... at least there is the road shoulder and median.


Something needs to be done to address the indirectness of the route and the fact that it skips major centres like Sunnybank Hills, Browns Plains, Calamvale etc.
The second best solution may mean altering the street so that BRT services and be put on to feed the rail system, like another poster has suggested. I would go so far as to say LRT in the median of the roads mentioned used as a feeder might be the go in 20 years or whenever this proposal gets up. The demand for PT in this area is huge.
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somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2010, 02:49:46 PM »
the reason why there isn't development along the Western Side of the interstate line is because it is floodplain which shows up in the Brisbane City Council Flood flag map.
I was actually going to add "unless it's a flood zone", but forgot.

Even so, you'd blow the costs of the project by a factor of 4, at least to tunnel all the way from Sunnybank station into more populated areas.  The interstate railway alignment mightn't be as good, but it is the only thing which is affordable.

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2010, 02:59:38 PM »
Quote
Even so, you'd blow the costs of the project by a factor of 4, at least to tunnel all the way from Sunnybank station into more populated areas.  The interstate railway alignment mightn't be as good, but it is the only thing which is affordable.

Er, this is actually a separate proposal altogether-- there is no connection to Sunnybank station or Mains Rd.

Look, proposal or not, something should be done about access.
The line is indirect and far from where the action and people are.
The proposals are only potential ways of solving that; There may be other solutions...
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2010, 03:30:24 PM »
The line is indirect and far from where the action and people are.
The Govt's proposal might be on the edge of the populated area, which isn't ideal, but it's not that indirect, and CRR1 will make it a heck of a lot more direct than the via Mains Rd road option.

Sorry, I can't see most of what you are proposing though, so I'll (mostly) reserve comment on that.  I will add though, I do not think the govt's proposal will make much of a difference to the bus traffic outside of the peaks.  The 130 would still be required at a minimum of current levels.

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2010, 04:38:52 PM »
The interstate line is nice & direct for Acacia Ridge, Algester, Parkinson, Drewvale, Hillcrest, Boronia Park & Greenbank.  Its alignment is far superior to that of the Beenleigh line, and those suburbs would have a faster service than Beenleigh does with fewer unnecessary stops.

For all places west of Beaudesert Road the interstate line would be a winner.

For places east of Beaudesert Road it would be of less use, I'd suspect it wouldn't pick up much Sunnybank Hills patronage at all (hence TT's proposal), but might do Ok for people from Calamvale, etc.

cheers,
Colin

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2010, 05:02:20 PM »
Surface roads are going to have to be upgraded because although the area has been spared cul-de-sac hell, the main roads do not connect at all to the interstate line.
I'm thinking ridgewood and nottingham roads.
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
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Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
If you take the time to read the study, there were two locations proposed for the Algester station. One, where the rail line crosses over the Logan Motorway was rejected as it serviced mainly a large acreage industrial estate (a long way between individual properties). The other that appears most acceptable is at the end of Nottingham Road. Nottingham Road is a major road cutting across direct from Beaudesert Road straight to the rail line. There is a large triangular area next to the rail line that appears suitable for the necessary car park/bus station. The station itself would be on the western side of the standard gauge line.

Nottingham Road acts as the boundary between Algester and Parkinson and also links direct to Calamvale. Nottingham Road connects to Algester Road and Ridgewood Road also had a junction to Algester Road nearby. Both these travel north/south while Nottingham Road is east/west.

Originally (many years ago) it was proposed that a road overpass would be built at the end of Nottingham Road over the railway to connect with Paradise Road but this idea was dropped with the completion of Algester Road back onto Beaudesert Road near the Logan Motorway interchange. At that time, Paradise Road was mostly a dirt track and there was no connection with the Logan Motorway. Paradise Road has since been sealed and an interchange installed to access the Logan Motorway. It is primarily intended for the heavy transports travelling to and from Acacia Ridge and also to promote the industrial estate mentioned earlier.

somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2010, 07:03:52 PM »
I still don't get where the land for this is coming from, if it isn't going to be a tunnel.  Are you taking away some lanes from Beaudesert Rd, or mass resumptions where it is required?

Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2010, 07:22:38 PM »
I don't understand what you mean Somebody unless you are referring to Tramtrain's proposal.

The Salisbury - Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study does not impact on Beaudesert Road other than it passes under it beside the standard gauge line at the new overpass on Beaudesert Road, Acacia Ridge and that overpass has been built with this future rail corridor in mind - there is room for the two 3 ft 6 ins gauge tracks.


Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2010, 07:26:17 PM »
Quote
I still don't get where the land for this is coming from, if it isn't going to be a tunnel.  Are you taking away some lanes from Beaudesert Rd, or mass resumptions where it is required?

Hmm. Think about it- If there is a massive development going down there, there is almost a certainty that the Mt Lindsay Hwy is going to be upgraded to motorway standards and this will require resumptions no matter what irrespective of the presence of rail or not. What are the chances that Beaudesert road -- which leads almost directly into Ipswich Road and is the most direct route to the CBD-- is going to be upgraded to motorway standards with grade separated intersections anyway? The presence of a wide road alignment, with very wide shoulders and wide median is no accident.

I don't expect to be massive resumptions, but even so-- even the busway projects both in the Northern Busway (i.e. Prince Charles Hospital) and Eastern Busways show that it can and does get used (at least for busway projects). Running in the median and moving the road lanes out from the median to allow one or two road lanes to be resumed for rail in the centre would have less impacts IMHO.

As I said, Its not what the solution is, its "will there be a solution at all" to fix up or dampen down the impacts of an alignment that has no access to major proven trip generating centres such as (Browns Plains, Sunnybank etc) where bus solutions are being stretched.
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somebody

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2010, 07:31:38 PM »
Yes, curator49, I did mean TT's proposal.

TT, there is another possibility which I would suggest is far more likely.  Feeding the Mt Lindsay Hwy into the Gateway Motorway.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:34:16 PM by somebody »

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2010, 07:34:16 PM »
Quote

Mt Lindesay Highway upgrades

Future upgrades to the Mt Lindesay Highway between Brisbane and Beaudesert are planned over the long term. Early concept planning is being undertaken for the Beaudesert bypass and has been considered as part of this study; however, these upgrades would need to be considered further as part of future detailed design.

page 7
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Posts are my independent commuter view- not RailBOT's or other party.

Offline Lapdog Transit

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2010, 07:49:37 PM »
From the document, it looks like they have made a decision on where the stations are exactly located.
Looks like feeder bus is the solution then...
“New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!” — Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Posts are my independent commuter view- not RailBOT's or other party.

Offline curator49

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Re: Salisbury to Beaudesert Rail Corridor Study
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2010, 07:53:16 PM »
If a motorway were to be built (God forbid) it would most certainly not be built along the current Mount Lindsay Highway alignment. It most likely would be built on the western side of the standard gauge line just as is the proposal for the Salisbury - Beaudesert rail corridor. The Logan Motorway and the Gateway Road were purpose built on new alighnments. I sincerely hope that we do not continue down the path where the almighty car is  god.

The Mount Lindsay Highway has been significantly upgraded over recent years but it is still a highway and the upgrades have barely kept pace with the ongoing and increasing congestion of motor vehicles from these "sparsely populated areas" down to Beaudesert. The road is already congested in morning peak before it gets anywhere near Browns Plains.

The "bus solutions" at Sunnybank Hills are being heavily burdened by passengers from the Browns Plains/Parkinson/Algester/Calamvale areas as well as Stretton etc. The proposed Salisbury - Beaudesert Rail Corridor will significantly alleviate that.
Upgrades for major roads including bypasses are always on the drawing board. A bypass of Beaudesert is mainly aimed at interstate truckers. Truck movements along the Mount Lindsay Highway will be a priority with the new major rail yards and heavy road transport interchange being built at Bromelton, near Beauderert.

 

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