Go Card Feedback - tell us of your Go Card experiences!!

[ozbob]

Current fixed fare rate is around 1:45, ie. for every 45 touches there is a fixed fare ...

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[colinw]

I bet a large proportion of that is bus passengers.  I see a lot of dodgy stuff happen on the buses, e.g. readers failing to activate at stops (very common), people bolting out the doors without noticing their touch didn't register, people getting a red light when tagging on and just carrying on.

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[Fares_Fair]

Current fixed fare rate is around 1:45, ie. for every 45 touches there is a fixed fare ...

That is a significant failure rate, over 2.2%
Especially considering the number of touches per day.

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[Stillwater]

Agree.  Translink should consider ads on TV showing correct and incorrect touch on-off techniques.  That may seem a waste to many here, but in the wider world a significant number need education.

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[ozbob]

I bet a large proportion of that is bus passengers.  I see a lot of dodgy stuff happen on the buses, e.g. readers failing to activate at stops (very common), people bolting out the doors without noticing their touch didn't register, people getting a red light when tagging on and just carrying on.

Yes,  rail is usually fare evasion or system failure (eg. power out)  bus go gear is a lot more dodgy I agree, and the bulk would be on bus.

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[Simon]

I'm still confused.  Why was the first one a fixed fare?  Touch on @ Winifred St.  Was the next touch at 8MP a different bus?  If the same bus it should have been a regular touch off.

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[colinw]

I'm still confused.  Why was the first one a fixed fare?  Touch on @ Winifred St.  Was the next touch at 8MP a different bus?  If the same bus it should have been a regular touch off.

That is exactly what I'm confused about. It was the same bus. Route 554. Hop on at Winifred St, off at 8MP Platform 1. No transfers anywhere.

Touch on at Winifred St. Touch of at 8MP.  It zaps me $5 and then leaves me in a touched on state. I touch on at Kuraby the next morning and get stung AGAIN!  A single rouge touch (or bad reader) has hit me with two $5 fixed fares from a single event.

How the heck did this result in two $5 fixed fares?

24-Mar-12 09:33:02 AM     Touch off    Roma Street                              -4.35     *
24-Mar-12 08:48:39 AM     Touch on     Kuraby          
24-Mar-12 08:48:39 AM     Touch off    Kuraby                                   -5.00     *
23-Mar-12 09:08:33 AM     Touch on     Eight Miles Plains Platform 1 [50051]          
23-Mar-12 09:08:33 AM     Touch off    Eight Miles Plains Platform 1 [50051]    -5.00     *
23-Mar-12 08:51:48 AM     Touch on     Winifred St F/S Chesterfield Cr* [28974]          
23-Mar-12 08:51:48 AM     Auto top up  Winifred St F/S Chesterfield Cr* [28974] 40.00  

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[ozbob]

It is a double touch.  The readers are meant to be programmed to not do that, if you recall it was a significant issue early in the roll out.  The reader was faulty.

The system left you touched on, > 5 hours pass, you touch on next morning another fixed fare, that reader working normally.

I have had feedback of same thing happening to other punters on Bertie ..  hence, check your history.   Many just don't know ..

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[Derwan]

Another good reason NOT to use auto top up.

Sorry to reply to an older post - but I just had to.

I have auto top-up set and I wonder why there are so many people who DON'T use it.  I see people queuing at ticket machines at Central and seriously wonder why they bother.  I haven't had to use a machine for years!

Auto top-up makes sense.  It makes life so much easier.

Now - if you don't use public transport that frequently, I could understand it.  But if you use it every day, there is no chance that you won't notice that your card is missing and cancel it straight away before any auto top-up occurs.

That all being said - you said that this is "another good reason not to use auto top-up".  I'm curious to know what the other "good" reasons are not to use it?  I honestly can't think of any!

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[ozbob]

My entire family's go cards are all on auto topup.  We have never had a problem with it to be honest.

But we do check history, and most of family are rail travellers so that means they don't have the more frequent bus issues.

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[Golliwog]

I do see the point of auto top up, but I still prefer not to use it. I don't need it, and the less places that can auto deduct money from my accounts the better. Once I (hopefully) get a decent paying job and my bank balance is less of a concern, then I may start using it, but currently I prefer it this way.

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[Mr X]

I have never felt comfortable with a government department having the ability to automatically deduct money from my bank account. After that fiasco I now keep my go card secure in my wallet.

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[Fares_Fair]

Another good reason NOT to use auto top up.

Sorry to reply to an older post - but I just had to.

I have auto top-up set and I wonder why there are so many people who DON'T use it.  I see people queuing at ticket machines at Central and seriously wonder why they bother.  I haven't had to use a machine for years!

Auto top-up makes sense.  It makes life so much easier.

Now - if you don't use public transport that frequently, I could understand it.  But if you use it every day, there is no chance that you won't notice that your card is missing and cancel it straight away before any auto top-up occurs.

That all being said - you said that this is "another good reason not to use auto top-up".  I'm curious to know what the other "good" reasons are not to use it?  I honestly can't think of any!

Quite simply, we (long distance commuters) stand to lose much, much more if our card is lost or stolen.
I have to top up in the maximum amount available, over $200 every week and a half.
That is why I will not use the auto top up.
A personal choice for a large and valid reason.

I also agree with MrX regarding automatic deductions made by anyone on a credit card, they're not always easy to stop.
I always know exactly how much money is expended on my go card travels.

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[Simon]

I'm still confused.  Why was the first one a fixed fare?  Touch on @ Winifred St.  Was the next touch at 8MP a different bus?  If the same bus it should have been a regular touch off.

That is exactly what I'm confused about. It was the same bus. Route 554. Hop on at Winifred St, off at 8MP Platform 1. No transfers anywhere.

Touch on at Winifred St. Touch of at 8MP.  It zaps me $5 and then leaves me in a touched on state. I touch on at Kuraby the next morning and get stung AGAIN!  A single rouge touch (or bad reader) has hit me with two $5 fixed fares from a single event.

How the heck did this result in two $5 fixed fares?

24-Mar-12 09:33:02 AM     Touch off    Roma Street                              -4.35     *
24-Mar-12 08:48:39 AM     Touch on     Kuraby          
24-Mar-12 08:48:39 AM     Touch off    Kuraby                                   -5.00     *
23-Mar-12 09:08:33 AM     Touch on     Eight Miles Plains Platform 1 [50051]          
23-Mar-12 09:08:33 AM     Touch off    Eight Miles Plains Platform 1 [50051]    -5.00     *
23-Mar-12 08:51:48 AM     Touch on     Winifred St F/S Chesterfield Cr* [28974]          
23-Mar-12 08:51:48 AM     Auto top up  Winifred St F/S Chesterfield Cr* [28974] 40.00  

Seems a clear system problem.  It's the sort of thing that one would hope they could fix, although reproducing the problem could be difficult.

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[Fares_Fair]

This is the same type of problem I had with the train at Roma Street Platform 2, touch off on the Platform, touch on at bottom of stairs and touch off at Roma Street Parklands gates situation.
It appears to me to be a bus reader acting in the reverse direction (if that makes sense).

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[ozbob]

Looks like there is a problem with the go card system developing.  I have already alerted TransLink previously based on a number of similar feedback reports, and will follow up again tomorrow.

My daughter had the same problem this evening at Roma St.  She also said she has noticed a lot of folks red lighting and not noticing.

9-Mar-12 08:27:25 PM    Touch off    Darra    -3.40    *
29-Mar-12 07:49:15 PM    Auto top up    Roma Street    20.00    
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch on    Roma Street        
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch off    Roma Street    -10.00    *
29-Mar-12 06:45:43 AM    Touch off    Central    -4.24    *
29-Mar-12 06:12:51 AM    Touch on    Darra

An incorrectly applied $10 fixed fare.  Adjustment applied for online. 

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[dwb]

I also agree with MrX regarding automatic deductions made by anyone on a credit card, they're not always easy to stop.
I always know exactly how much money is expended on my go card travels.

Just go direct to your bank fill out one form and it is done. Easy.

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[dwb]

I had a bus tag on/off issue this morning, slow tag on, then no read plus two reds before getting green trying to tag off.

Was charged $3.58 twice then $5...

I forgot I put my CityCycle card back into my wallet and scratched it up to interference. They were quite quick in fixing it this morning.

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[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

30 March 2012

Urgent advice to go card users

Greetings,

We have received a number of recent reports of go card users receiving fixed fares when using a go card in a normal manner.  For example see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=432.msg93092#msg93092

It appears that when users are touching on in a normal manner the system is failing to properly recognise that the go card users have previously touched off, and it is simply dealing out fixed fares, on buses and rail.  These fixed fares, in the case of rail for adults are $10.  This can rapidly deplete a go card users credit and potentially leave them stranded.

Advice to all go card users is to register your go card, as this facilitates checking of history online.  Go card histories can be checked on the ticket machines as well.  Print out can be obtained at staffed stations.

All users would be well advised to check their go card history regularly and take prompt action to recover the fixed fares they may have been hit with.  This can be done online for registered go card users, or by phone 131230 for all.

We call on TransLink to direct Cubic to fix this problem.  We also call on TransLink to make it clear to users that should their funds be depleted by these system issues that they can at least travel on their journey free, otherwise they may well be stranded.

Be particularly vigilant, you have been warned.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

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[ozbob]

Looks like there is a problem with the go card system developing.  I have already alerted TransLink previously based on a number of similar feedback reports, and will follow up again tomorrow.

My daughter had the same problem this evening at Roma St.  She also said she has noticed a lot of folks red lighting and not noticing.

9-Mar-12 08:27:25 PM    Touch off    Darra    -3.40    *
29-Mar-12 07:49:15 PM    Auto top up    Roma Street    20.00    
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch on    Roma Street        
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch off    Roma Street    -10.00    *
29-Mar-12 06:45:43 AM    Touch off    Central    -4.24    *
29-Mar-12 06:12:51 AM    Touch on    Darra

An incorrectly applied $10 fixed fare.  Adjustment applied for online. 

An interesting footnote.  My daughter went to the station office and asked for a print out, and said that she wanted her $10 back.  They said that 'you must have touched on three times'  ...  eventually the conceded there was an issue and to contact TransLink.   Some staff obviously need some training ...

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[ozbob]

For those who have not seen a go card transaction history printout that you can get at a station office, herewith ..

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[ozbob]

I have contacted TL.  They indicate they have not noticed a spike in fixed fares, but are always happy to look into particular issues.

They have indicated that fixed fare rate for the last quarter was 2.2%.  When you think about that is 1:45 though.  Imagine if an ATM money withdrawal process had an error rate of one in 45 times you used it?

We must continue to urge go card users to be careful and check histories regularly.

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[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Go card a touch too keen for commuter cash

Go card a touch too keen for commuter cash

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    April 02, 2012 12:00AM

THE embattled go card system has again come under fire from commuters, with new statistics showing one fixed fare is issued for every 45 touches.

Although part of the problem lies with users unfamiliar with go card equipment, recent experiences suggest a "system failure" on some of the touch screens.

Robert Dow from commuter group Rail Back on Track said it appeared that when users touched on in the normal manner, the system was failing to recognise they had previously touched off.

"It is simply dealing out fixed fares, on buses and rail. We call on TransLink to direct Cubic to fix this problem," Mr Dow said.

"We also call on TransLink to make it clear to users that should their funds be depleted by these system issues, they can at least travel on their journey free, otherwise they may well be stranded."

Other commuters have called for a media campaign by TransLink to educate commuters about touching on and touching off, in the hope of reducing the flurry of $10 and $5 fixed fares.

More than four out of five trips taken on public transport are now paid by go card and TransLink CEO Neil Scales said they continuously monitored the performance of the smart card and the ticketing systems.

"No fixed fare issues have been identified," he said.

However, Mr Scales did encourage anyone with a grievance to contact TransLink through the call centre or website.

"TransLink has in place processes to investigate any instances where customers feel they have been charged incorrectly," he said.

"Customers can lodge a request for a refund if they feel that they have been incorrectly charged."

He said the current percentage of fixed fares was 2.2 per cent of the overall go card trips, down from 3.45 per cent for the same period the previous year.

Mr Dow urged commuters to regularly check their go card history online or by requesting a print-out from train station staff.

"You have been warned," he said.

Discussion on this article here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8038.0

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[colinw]

Postscript to my double fixed fare reported a couple of weeks ago.  Correction has been received as a pending top-up. Thank-you TransLink. 

As Bob says, check your transaction history frequently. Particularly if you are on auto top-up as you could burn through money without noticing.

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[Golliwog]

Thank you to the Channel Nine investigations team, for shelling out $432 for an RTI of fixed fare data.
http://translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/right-to-information/disclosure-log

TL12/113

    Application number: TL12/113
    Date of release: 12 April 2012
    Topic/information requested:
    Documents concerning the go card ticketing system - fixed fares paid for not touching off at end of journey:

    1. For each year of the 2008, 2009, 2010 calendar years, please state the number of fixed fares collected and their combined value.

    2. For each year for the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 calendar years, please list the number of fixed fares collected and their value for train, bus and ferry, and Airtrain.

    3. For each year for the 2009, 2009, 2010 and 2011 calendar years, please state how the number of refunds of fixed fares and their value due to errors or malfunctions of equipment.

    4. For each year for the 2009, 2009, 2010 and 2011 calendar years, please break down this number of reimbursements/refunds of fixed fares and their value due to errors or malfunctions of equipment for train, bus and ferry and Airtrain.

    5. For the period May 30, 2011 to December 30, 2011 only, please state the number of fixed fares collected and their total combined value.

    6. For the period May 30, 2011 to December 30, 2011, please break this down for train, bus and ferry, and Airtrain.

    7. For the period May 30, 2011 to December 30, 2011, please state how the number of reimbursements/refunds of fixed fares and their value due to errors or malfunctions of equipment.

    8. For the period May 30, 2011 to December 30, 2011, please break down this number of reimbursements/refunds of fixed fares and their value due to errors or malfunctions of equipment for train, bus and ferry, and Airtrain.

There are 15 files up there in total, most of them being from item 2, which is broken down by mode, year, month, and gocard type (Adult, Child, Gold Repat, Pensioner, School, Senior, Tertiary Student).

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[ozbob]

Well well well.  What a doozey ...

Today I received a letter from ' TransLink Cardholder Support '  which is a blunt letter stating that an auto topup which was processed on  one of my daughter's go cards ( I am the Credit Card provider [ yes I know, you can shed a tear for me later .. lol ] ) on the 16th April 2012 and that the actual payment for the top up has not be received from the bank so they will take off the amount from go card within the next 48 hours.  The letter was dated the 1st May so presumably that will occur in the next 24 hours, unless I provide 'proof of payment from your bank'.

There is a big problem.  There never was an auto top up on the 16th April, hence no wonder they have not received a payment!

Couple of issues here. Even in the the top up did occur the time frame is unrealistic for a person to provide proof. 

I contacted TransLink - go card support.  They agree that a top up never occurred on that date.  Their 'unofficial' explanation was that some how the card number has been mixed up.  Mixed up?  Crikey.    They noted on the card history that there is a pending debit, for something that never happened.

Not  good.  They will ring me hopefully and explain the error.

I wonder how many poor souls have been done over by this little rort ...

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[Golliwog]

Did they say if it was a system error, or a person error? I can't see how it could be a system error as it should just automatically get the go card/account number.

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[ozbob]

Did they say if it was a system error, or a person error? I can't see how it could be a system error as it should just automatically get the go card/account number.

No, I suspect though that there must be a manual process somewhere in this little effort ... 

System errors do occur though, not sure about this event above being a system error, but I have seen through feedback a small number of ' phantom touches ' that is journeys appearing on a users go card history that have never been undertaken by that user or that actual go card ... < scary music plays >

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[STB]

Had my Go Card die on me yesterday (Wednesday).  Worked as per normal up until the afternoon where it started to get very delayed reactions to the reader, until the peak hour when it just simply would not read.

I ended up having to get a new Go Card and despite being told elsewhere that I would get a free card as my old card was faulty, the station officer told me that that was not correct and that I would have to pay the $5 deposit.  So now, I'll have to scrounge around between my new Go Card, and my back up Go Card until I can get my money transferred over to my new card, which will be interesting as I'm supposed to have a bunch of meetings and journeys to/from uni and the TV station with only $20 (all that I could afford) on my new card :/.  And I had worked up 7 journeys before my card died on me, so no free journeys this week .

I'll ring TransLink again later today and see if I can get the balance adjusted as it occurred mid-journey and I had already paid for zones 1-2 before it died, and see if I can get that deposit that I paid on the new card transferred onto my new card.

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[STB]

I've just come off a route 345 and noticed upon boarding that a guy was being fined by some SNOs (the blue shirts).  I got off the same stop as the guy who had being fined and the SNOs and decided to hang around a bit to find out what happened.  Turns out the guy tried to touch on both readers and when that failed he was signalled by the driver to just get on board, to which the SNOs then proceeded to fine him for failure to touch on.

When he protested to the SNOs, the SNOs told him that it was equal to boarding with a $20 note and not paying.  Something doesn't sound right about that...

Oh the SNOs also said that the driver had no power to signal him on board.  And that the driver should've stopped him from boarding...

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[ozbob]

I've just come off a route 345 and noticed upon boarding that a guy was being fined by some SNOs (the blue shirts).  I got off the same stop as the guy who had being fined and the SNOs and decided to hang around a bit to find out what happened.  Turns out the guy tried to touch on both readers and when that failed he was signalled by the driver to just get on board, to which the SNOs then proceeded to fine him for failure to touch on.

When he protested to the SNOs, the SNOs told him that it was equal to boarding with a $20 note and not paying.  Something doesn't sound right about that...

Oh the SNOs also said that the driver had no power to signal him on board.  And that the driver should've stopped him from boarding...

Page 19 http://translink.com.au/resources/tickets-and-fares/go-card/120102-user-guide-part-1.pdf

If the circumstances are as described go to court.  But, in my judgement SNOs would not be fining him if he in fact did attempt to touch on, it failed and the driver waved him on.  What was the balance on the go card?

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[STB]

I've just come off a route 345 and noticed upon boarding that a guy was being fined by some SNOs (the blue shirts).  I got off the same stop as the guy who had being fined and the SNOs and decided to hang around a bit to find out what happened.  Turns out the guy tried to touch on both readers and when that failed he was signalled by the driver to just get on board, to which the SNOs then proceeded to fine him for failure to touch on.

When he protested to the SNOs, the SNOs told him that it was equal to boarding with a $20 note and not paying.  Something doesn't sound right about that...

Oh the SNOs also said that the driver had no power to signal him on board.  And that the driver should've stopped him from boarding...

Page 19 http://translink.com.au/resources/tickets-and-fares/go-card/120102-user-guide-part-1.pdf

If the circumstances are as described go to court.  But, in my judgement SNOs would not be fining him if he in fact did attempt to touch on, it failed and the driver waved him on.  What was the balance on the go card?

From the conversation I heard between them, there was money on the Go Card.

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[ozbob]

If what that go card user says is true, then  it would be dismissed by a magistrate IMO. The TransLink user guidelines are quite clear. I hope he had the sense to get the details of the bus driver (witness), bus details and so forth.

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[STB]

If what that go card user says is true, then  it would be dismissed by a magistrate IMO. The TransLink user guidelines are quite clear. I hope he had the sense to get the details of the bus driver (witness), bus details and so forth.

No unfortuantely the passenger didn't get the driver's details, nor of the SNOs.  He just was in such a huff about it I guess he didn't think of it.

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[Lapdog]

    I've just come off a route 345 and noticed upon boarding that a guy was being fined by some SNOs (the blue shirts).  I got off the same stop as the guy who had being fined and the SNOs and decided to hang around a bit to find out what happened.  Turns out the guy tried to touch on both readers and when that failed he was signalled by the driver to just get on board, to which the SNOs then proceeded to fine him for failure to touch on.

    When he protested to the SNOs, the SNOs told him that it was equal to boarding with a $20 note and not paying.  Something doesn't sound right about that...

    Oh the SNOs also said that the driver had no power to signal him on board.  And that the driver should've stopped him from boarding...

If the equipment is faulty, he cannot be fined.
TransLink's fault if the equipment is not working.

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[SurfRail]

^ Not if the faulty item is the card itself, as I understand it.

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[Simon]

If what that go card user says is true, then  it would be dismissed by a magistrate IMO. The TransLink user guidelines are quite clear. I hope he had the sense to get the details of the bus driver (witness), bus details and so forth.

No unfortuantely the passenger didn't get the driver's details, nor of the SNOs.  He just was in such a huff about it I guess he didn't think of it.

So long as the trip taken is clearly identified, I would expect it to be TL's responsibility to identify the driver who can then verify or rebutt the story.

But such things shouldn't go to court.

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[colinw]

^ Not if the faulty item is the card itself, as I understand it.

Hmmm...  the back of the Go Card clearly says "This card is the property of TransLink.".

Does that not mean that a faulty Go Card is a faulty piece of TransLink equipment? 

Seriously 'though, when a card fails to read are we expected to troubleshoot the root cause of the problem in order to determine whether or not it is acceptable to proceed with boarding. Particularly if the person who is the point of contact (the bus driver) is not authorised to make that determination.

This whole situation is the kind of ridiculous bungle that turns people away from the public transport system.

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[Fares_Fair]

Great footnote Colinw ! 

I'd appreciate a crash course in how you rename the link trick ...

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[colinw]

Great footnote Colinw ! 

I'd appreciate a crash course in how you rename the link trick ...

You use the "url" bbcode tag:

Code: [Select]

[url=link_to_website]text to display/[url]
for example to link to the e-petitions site:

Code: [Select]

[url=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petitions]click here[/url]
The entire signature is entered like this:

Code: [Select]

Failure to duplicate the Sunshine Coast Line is a national disgrace.
[b][color=maroon][size=10pt]Sunshine Coast Line Duplication e-petition: [url=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petitions]click here[/url]![/size][/color][/b]
To read more about what you can do with bbcode, click here

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