Some bus improvements - posting in articles

[ozbob]

A list of bus improvements has been compiled by somebody.  It is has been posted in the articles section of our forum (because of the length).

We intend to move forward with this in one week.  

If you would like to read and comment please follow this link click --> here! or articles tab main menu.

Thanks

[somebody]

LONG POST WARNGING - needs to be spread over 2 posts!

Here it is reformatted and tidied up a little.  I've added a couple of points.

Points in italics were already made in the "30 issues ..." thread

General Bus Issues:

1. Bunched bus services.  When I have to get in to the city from Indooroopilly shops on a weekend, usually I have to be there on the hour.  That means that I need to catch the 444 which comes at 23 past the hour and gets me there around 15 minutes early.  The part which is annoying about this is that 3 buses come around 38 past the hour.  One of these should be moved to come around half past the hour.  You may think that if I have a 15 minute service, then I shouldn't complain but I don't agree.  For no extra money I could have an excellent service, it's just Translink's recalcitrance which prevents this.  Sydney buses certainly don't take this attitude when you look at the co-ordination between 373 and 377 bus routes.  When the 373 is running 4 times an hour, it's co-ordinated with the 377 such that a 10 minute frequency is achieved between Randwick and Circular Quay.

2. City stop locations.  When there is a given bus corridor, such as to Indooroopilly which is used by several routes, all of those routes should have their stops at the same locations in the city.  On the Coronation Drive corridor, you are forced to contend with 4 different places to grab a bus service: Adelaide St stop 40 for a 411/415/433/445, Adelaide St stop 16 for 412, King George Square bus station for a 444, and Queen St bus station platform B for a 425/430/435/450/453/454/460.  At least the various rocket services mostly come in the same places here.  This also applies for the Mains Rd/Warrigal Rd/Beaudesert Rd corridors, where you have Adelaide St stop 42 or Queen St bus station (ignoring the 153 and City Precincts service).  This is not important heading inbound though.  It also would not be important for a rocket service IF it were the case that it would be faster to wait for the next rocket service than to grab a normal service when you have just missed the rocket service.  It's not clear if there are any corridors this applies to, but the 153 may be one.  Again, Sydney buses are able to achieve this, so it's not clear why it's a problem for Translink to do so.

3. There seems to be a mentality that if a rocket route uses street stops in one direction, then it needs to use them in the other direction.  Witness the P119 and P179 routes being taken out of Queen St Bus Station on the outbound recently.  I view this mentality as plain wrong.  Referring again to Sydney, there are a number routes which leave from Castlereagh St which is one way.  These routes must use either George St or Elizabeth St on the inbound, both of which are two way.  It is not obvious that the outbound route would leave from a different street, and it is not ideal, but Sydneysiders seem to be able to work it out, aided by on street bus information which is superior to Brisbane.  I am unclear what advantage arriving on Elizabeth St and departing on Adelaide St has over arriving on Elizabeth St and departing from underground, thinking about the recent changes to the P119 and P179, and I see sizeable disadvantages in that the outbound rocket service (speaking generally here) is often poorly patronised because the stop location is not adjacent or the same as the stop location for the full time service.

4. There is also thought to be a requirement which is intermittently enforced that if a bus does something in one direction, then it has to do it in the opposite direction.  This ignores the realities of the Brisbane road system which often doesn't allow for this, partly due to one way roads, and partly for other reasons.  Examples of where this is not enforced are: the 433 and 445 have inbound routings leaving Indooroopilly shops which cannot be duplicated on the outbound.  Similarly, the 428 can only stop on Moggill Rd approaching Musgrave Rd on the outbound.  I think some or all of the 105/108/106/598/599/427/432 may have the same limitation.

5. All stops should appear on destination displays for services which stop at all stops.  Are you ashamed of stopping at all stops?  Other destination displays are also inadequate, such as the 433 which displays something like "Kenmore via Indooroopilly.  It's not clear how this differs from the 430.  Something like "Kenmore-Gem Rd via Marshall Lane all stops" would be more useful.  There are numerous other poor destination displays such as the N100 and N464 which both show "Forest Lake" only, and another example would be "Browns Plains via Runcorn - 150".  I would suggest "Browns Plains via Warrigal & Gowan Rds - 150" would be more useful.

6. Sacred cow "all BUZ routes must service the Cultural Centre" slows down the 130/140/150 when it seems pretty clear they would be faster if using the Captain Cook Bridge full time.  Seems that the only reason they should be stopping here is my point 2: City stop locations are inconsistent.  What I mean here is that because it's so difficult to find where in the city a given bus stops, you might as well go to the Cultural Centre and change.  I would have these routes and the P157 join the P129/131/P133/P137/P141/P142/P151/156 at Adelaide St stop 48 and Creek St stops 148 & 149 for the outbound services, subject to there being enough room at said stops.  If not, adjacent stops then.  The reason why I am targeting these routes, is because if speeding them up is important enough to have them express through Buranda, Greenslopes and Holland Park West, it is illogical to have them deviate via South Bank.  The main problem with this is that it would then require a double change to get to Woolloongabba, unless you go into the city and then back out again.  It the long term this could be solved by an Eight Mile plains-Gabba route, but I'm not sure that is required now.  I would ideally run inbound via Captain Cook Bridge, Elizabeth St, Creek St then Adelaide St or Ann St, with a terminus dwell near Central.  If on Ann St then ideally with indented stops.  This would allow relatively easy interchange with trains at the cost of a slightly less nice outbound stop if on Ann St.  An alternative to the indented stops may be a Transit Lane in the second lane on Ann St.  All the equivalent rockets and the 555 should do the same.  Off peak it may be necessary to add a stop at Buranda to increase the frequency of the interchange options for Mater Hill, South Bank and the Cultural Centre.

7. Requiring a BUZ to have a 10 minute peak frequency makes it harder to add short workings and rocket services to cover the route in peak and also reduces the consistency of the timetable .  This is particularly apparent for the 200 which runs every 7-8 mins in peak.  There is a strong case for more rockets.

8. There is a lack of maps around the CBD to show where a bus to a given location leaves from.  While there is some facility in QSBS Platform A, I'm not convinced it is easy to use and simple maps in multiple locations would be easier to follow while reaching more people.

9. Also, the lack of any bus priority on Coronation Drive, Moggill Rd, the Captain Cook Bridge and southbound on Mains Rd is a severe problem.  It's also not present on Elizabeth St and southbound on Kelvin Grove Rd, the shortness of the northbound transit lane doesn't help either. Bus lanes are significantly better than transit lanes and can be camera enforced, which is a big advantage.  Further, the Ann St lane which applies 7am-11 and 2pm-7pm seems like it would be much easier to understand just being 7am-7pm if BCC are unwilling to make it 24x7.  There also needs to be the ability for buses to turn right into Roma St and/or George St from the bus lane with priority signals.  There is a need for Translink to work together with BCC and main roads to sort out its requirements for traffic management.  This is also evident westbound on Milton Rd between Petrie Terrace and Cribb St, although the re-openning of the right turn from Hale St on Coronation Drive with the Go Between Bridge openning will probably help this.  If not, a third westbound traffic lane from Hale St to Cribb St as a bus lane would solve all.  The bus lane should run from as near as possible to Petrie Tce, but it is not clear that the second traffic lane toward Petrie Tce is needed eastbound after Castlemaine St except for the last 50m or so.

10. Currently, white signs at bus stops denote that it is an express stop but a blue sign denotes it is only for all stops routes.  There is no way this is obvious to the general public.  Similarly, the sign for BUZ stops which reads "catch the BUZ ... it's easy" doesn't make it obvious what a BUZ is.  At least it could say something like "catch the BUZ ... high frequency services".

11. It's unclear why the eastern part of the 470 and the 192 are still required with the City Glider.  The UQ extension could be handled by selected 199s.

12. The 476 would be better being abolished and trips consolidated into 475 workings.  Similarly for the 197 and 196 respectively.

13. Headways of underground stops.  Currently, it is not done to have them tighter than 5 minutes, except for the 222/66 stop.  It is unclear what is different about this stop which allows tighter headways, and the 222 could easily be using a different stop since it running against the peak.  It is likely to be achievable to squeeze the headways of other stops tighter than 5 minutes, although it does require contingency planning.  There are currently quite a few stops which have less traffic than every 5 minutes even in peak.

Central Bus Routes/Zone:

14. Slow Roma St-Herschel St-North Quay-Adelaide St/Elizabeth St/Margaret St inbound routing for bus routes P343, 363, P374, 375, 376, 379, 380-383, 390, 470, 475, 476 and perhaps some others.  The text below describes suggestions to avoid this.

15. The 199 should route full time via the Ivory St tunnel.  At the moment, the majority who are heading to/from the city are inconvenienced for the minority who are travelling between New Farm and the Valley.  Also, it's not that big a walk between Ivory St and Ann St and those who can't manage the walk still have a service with the 196 and 197, even if it would require a change for those on Merthyr Rd and beyond.

16. Connecting William St and the SE busway on the Victoria bridge adds a cycle to the lights.  Routes such as the 130/140/150/555 would be better off using the Captain Cook Bridge and the Elizabeth St and Alice St (or Ann St) ramps, while routes like the 105/107/108 could use the Queen St bus station or Adelaide St.

17. There is a good case for greater frequency and operating hours of the free city loop buses.  This is needed as it is not practical to have service to all parts of the city, like the "City Precincts" regions from the suburbs outside of the peak times.  Therefore it may be necessary for Translink to fund it, although I see little point in ticketting as it will be nearly all transfers anyway.

18. The CityGlider route seems to violate a few transport principles.  Really, it should be all stops, and free up the 199 from stopping between "Mollison St" and the Cultural Centre, and free up the 300 from needing to service all stops between the city and Commercial Rd on the inbound and between the city and Skyring Tce on the outbound.

19. There is probably a need for full time service to the Parliament end of town.  This could be done by extending/moving the 300/301/306/322/360/370 routes along William St/George St.  Moving the Toombul routes would also free up congestion in the Cultural Centre.

20. 393 is currently a waste.  CityGlider connects Teneriffe Ferry with a train station at a good frequency now and it should be scrapped.  If it isn't scrapped, one possibility would be to extend to the Gabba or UQ via Roma St station and the Captain Cook Bridge via the portal at Turbot St.  I feel that this is not worth the effort and it should just be scrapped.

21. Busway speed limits.  The 20km/h in Queen St Bus Station is a fair speed for the snake, but kicks in too early.  Also the 40km/h speed limit through the Normanby bus parking is the same as what it is outside a primary school around start/finish times.  I'm sure bus drivers are smart enough not to walk out in front of a bus without looking.

Western Bus Routes:

22. The 412's city stop location is pretty bad; it should be co-located with the 411, 415 and 417.  Ideally, these should be co-located with the via Indooroopilly buses but I don't know if that's achievable, and it also assumes that the Indooroopilly routes continue to use Coronation Drive rather than Milton Rd.

23. Since the good decision that the existing express routes will use the Go Between Bridge off peak on the outbound has been taken, there remain a number of things left undone here.  The first is that I think they should continue to use the Go Between Bridge in both peaks, but the AM peak is a lay down mizaire since there isn't really Cultural Centre or Go Between Bridge congestion on the outbound in the AM peak.  In the PM peak it would worsen Cultural Centre congestion, but other points I make reduce this.  The next thing is the closure of the Cribb St stop; there is a need for an indented stop on the slip lane from the Go Between Bridge, which should be as close as possible to the existing pedestrian underpass under Coronation Drive.  That would then also require the re-openning of the "Boomerang St" stop on the inbound.  Also, the 444 needs to be given the same route as the other express routes and a Queen St Bus Station Platform B terminus.  The only way I can go along with the 444/443 remaining in King George Square is if it runs along Milton Rd instead of Coronation Drive.  While moving the 444 would reduce connectivity to Roma St station, you can easily connect to get there.  If heading to Caboolture you can connect at Toowong, and Indooroopilly for Ipswich, for south lines connecting at South Brisbane is relatively easy and heading to other north lines you are best off changing for an Adelaide St bus at the Cultural Centre which is also an option for getting to Caboolture.  It would also be a little less convenient heading to places in the North West such as Everton Park as you would have to double change at the Cultural Centre as well as at Roma St, but this can be done easily.  If anyone definitely doesn't want to do so, they can still use an all stops route and change at Herschel St stop 106 for Roma St station.  Also note that the journey planner doesn't suggest many of these options.

24. Current 443 outbound routing is a bit illogical.  If Coronation Drive is faster, why not use the Roma St portal near Ann St and the Ann St ramp onto the Riverside expressway; the 444 can cover Roma St station.  Alternatively if Milton Rd is faster, why not stick on that until Croydon St.  My personal get feeling is that Milton Rd would be faster.  Also, whichever is the faster route should also be followed by the 426, 431 and 446.

25. Dumb routing of the 4xx city express services (not 412) inbound in the AM peak via North Quay when it would clearly be faster to access the busway at Skew St.  While it is true that this cannot be easily replicated on the outbound, neither can the current stop at Herschel St stop 106.  So the need to use either an Ipswich line train, a 444 (if it remains in King George Square) or interchange at the Cultural Centre which applies at present will still apply.

26. AM 457/458/459 route means using busy and traffic light filled North Quay.  I suggest that the City Precincts service is tagged on to the 455/456 in the AM and the 457/458/459 made PM peak only.  I'd suggest that this would be an equally fast AM service, if not faster, and the additional frequency is a big plus.  Of course, if Coronation Drive is, in fact, faster, nothing would stop routing the 455/456 that way with a stop at Cribb St instead of the stop at Milton station, and a turn up Skew St.  In the PM, a Charlotte St start may be good enough that the "City Precincts" service is unnecessary.

27. After about 7:30pm on a weekday the 453 & 454 drop back to hourly.  Wouldn't a half hourly 450 be better?

28. There are several "University Semester only" workings of the 412.  These should really be 402s, and all the 402s should be non stop between UQ and Toowong station.  This point could be argued.

29. 4xx inbound rockets should divert down Sylvan Rd to take advantage of the T2 lane assuming that the promise to re-introduce it after the Go Between Bridge opens is eventually kept.  They could keep the Queen St Bus Station destination by turning up Skew St.

30. There is a good case for the 415 Stanley Tce service and the 416/470 Duke St service to be combined into a single 415/470 route.  This would also connect Milton Rd with Indooroopilly shops which is a major trip generator for the west.  This would get rid of the Toowong Village terminus of the 470.

31. If the 470, 471, 475 and 476 only have the western part, then they could use Queen St stops 56-59 or Elizabeth St stop 89 as per the current 350 route.  Even if the 470, 475, 476 keep the eastern part they can still use Edward St to Elizabeth St and continue as present.  It also seems a bit of a waste to continue to George St westbound, they could turn up Roma St instead.  An alternative for the 475 & 476 would be to run inbound along Park Rd, Coronation Drive and then to either Adelaide St or Elizabeth St.  A further, more obvious alternative is to use King George Square Bus Station for these services.  This would avoid the slow Roma St-Herschel St-North Quay-Adelaide St inbound routing for the  470/475/476.

32. If the 411/416/417/433/445 are to continue to serve Adelaide St stop 40 and the 412 to move there then I think there is a need for a stop on George St between Adelaide and Ann Sts.  I view this as second best to a stop on the Coronation Drive slip lane from the Go Between Bridge though which would allow all of these routes to move in to QSBS B headways permitting though.

33. For the 427 and 428 from UQ to Indooroopilly and sometimes Chapel Hill, it seems a poor principle for these buses to serve Indooroopilly train station.  UQ Ipswich line commuters should be using 402s or 412s to Toowong station.  Therefore, the UQ bound 428 should abolish the Central Av service and simply turn left onto Clarence Rd from Westminster Rd, and vice versa heading away from it.  It is the same for the 427 when heading towards UQ, however, there is a case for it when heading away from UQ continuing along Swann Rd to Moggill Rd.  It is assumed that 428 service would be required on Clarence Rd.  At a minimum, the 427's Ward St, Central Av, Lambert Rd then Clarence Rd routing could be abolished for simply continuing along Clarence Rd.

34. Replace 430 and 445 with a loop running every half hour in both directions to Indooroopilly shops, and truncate the 435 at Indooroopilly shops full time but improve the operating hours on it.

35. While the 460 is still running, it should really combine with the 450 to allow interchange at Mt Ommaney shops for the 454 people with a correctly pulsed timetable and a guaranteed connection.  After Richlands station opens, there isn't a need for the 460 if the 100 extends there on an adequate frequency, so you might as well extend the 453 to Sumners Rd, make the 453 & 454 full time and discontinue the 450.

36. Something needs to be done about the outbound 426/431/436/446/455/456/461 rocket routings.  One possibility is to start from Roma St Station, then Queen St Bus Station, then the Cultural Centre, cross the Go Between Bridge and continue along either Land St or Park Rd towards the freeway.  The major problem with this is the inability to serve the "Cribb St" stop, and this is where it may be necessary to turn up Park Rd.  Queues to turn right into Park Rd are long in peak, so it may be only viable if it is made "no right turn - buses excepted" in peak into Park Rd from Coronation Drive.  The other viable alternative is to make them Charlotte St starters on the outbound.

Southern Bus Routes:

37. Another corridor would be the Ipswich Rd corridor where some buses (100/110/115) run from the Queen St bus station, but others (113/117/124/125/172) run from Adelaide St.  These services should be kept together as a block, with the possible exception of the 172, and I would also question the Woolloongabba bus station routing.  Why not use the O'Keefe St portal of the Eastern Busway? If the services which would be advantaged by it aren't going to use it, then why was it built?  It is probably necessary to keep the all stops routes on the current routing if it is necessary to maintain service to those stops.  Routing the 100/110/115 express routes via the Boggo Rd busway would result in the need to close the inbound stop at PA Hospital if done on the inbound.  I think there are two options for looking at this, the first is that the PA Hospital is now served by the 109 at a relatively high frequency anyway and the all stops Ipswich Rd buses would also be available.  The other option is that the outbound is the only direction you need to use Jurgens St and you could stick to Ipswich Rd for the inbound and still serve the hospital in both directions.

38. Wasteful routing of the 136 via Kessels Rd and Garden City when a stop at Griffith Uni would do, so long as the buses which it is desired to change from would also stop here.  That would be buses such as the 153, P142 and possibly 156 and/or P157. 

39. The above, combined with increasing congestion, may require extension of the Griffith Uni busway station.

40. Lack of a single seat connection between Roma St and the PA Hospital, discounting the indirect and infrequent 475 and 476.  To a lesser degree, the lack of a single seat connection between Roma St and UQ St Lucia is also a problem for north western Brisbane's bus commuters.  This could be provided by a combined 66 and 109 route, with Woolloongabba remaining connected to Roma St by extending other runs which are now terminating at the Cultural Centre, such as the 333/330/340. 

41. Routes 111 & 160.  Why two routes?  Shouldn't the 160 be canned and its frequency cannibalised for extra 111 services?  This would make it much easier to get the next busway all stops service from the city as there would be only one stop location.

42. 172 also needs to use the Cornwall St and Juliette St ramps rather than Ipswich Rd and should be taken out of Woolloongabba, although this could be argued as it would require an interchange at Buranda for a 169 to get to the PA Hospital.  An alternative interchange would be at Mater Hill for a 109/100/110/115/113/117/124/125.

43. 180 corridor rockets: The P189 should serve the "Holland Rd" stop as it currently seems too short a route. Also, it doesn't seem to make much sense to have the P189 for inbound only.  The P179 should continue along Marshall Rd to the busway portal at Birdwood Rd, Wellers Hill, and the 181 should do this too.  It seems intuitive that Holland Rd/Marshall Rd would be less congested in the peak than Cavendish Rd-Juliette St/Cornwall St.

44. 184 doesn't need to route via the Stanley Bridge.  This bridge has a perfectly adequate service between 185/210/212/215/220 full time services, and it is only 0.9km along Cavendish Rd between Stanley St East and Old Cleveland Rd where you can get the 200 BUZ and other routes.  It is also only 1.3km along Cavendish Rd between Old Cleveland Rd and Chatsworth Rd, so if these routes were re-routed via Cornwall St/Juliette St the additional walk of maximum 0.65km inflicted by the loss of the Cavendish Rd service is easy for those who are able bodied.  It would not be a big deal if frequency was hourly between Stanley Bridge and Chatsworth Rd on Cavendish Rd.  Of course, this is assuming that the 180 covers more of Cavendish Rd rather than running along Holland Rd.  Honestly, I do not see much value in the 184 at all.  The Creek Rd and south service is better provided by the 170, 174 and 175, and the 172 could be diverted to provide the Wemvern St service.  The 184's frequency would be better off being put in to additional 185s or 180s.  The 185 would make more sense to stick on Ham Rd in Mansfield and serve an unserved stretch of road rather than follow the 180 route along Cresthaven Dr.

45. Routes 170/180: Following on from the above, it is unclear that the 180 needs to run along Holland Rd.  For those who are unable or unwilling to walk to either Cavendish Rd or Logan Rd which only have 1.1km between them at Holland Rd there is the 172 and there could be the P189 in peak in addition to the 173.  The 180 could serve Cavendish Rd and Chatsworth Rd along part of the 181 route by continuing along Cornwall St past Logan Rd and then Upper Cornwall St and Chatsworth Rd until Cavendish Rd, obviously using Juliette St in the inbound direction.  The 170 should then take over the Logan Rd service by using the Cornwall St/Juliette St ramps instead of the Wellers Hill portal.  It is thought that this would increase patronage on both the 170 and 180.  The major downside with the 170 sticking on Logan Rd longer is that it cannot serve the "Wellers Hill" stop, although Holland Park West busway station, Logan Rd and the 120 are not that far away.  Also the 180 has less time allocated to it between Buranda and Garden City than the P179, in spite of following the same route and making the same stops, and the latter being pre paid.  Isn't it about time that the 180 timings were reviewed? 

46. The P119 could benefit from using the Birdwood Rd, Wellers Hill busway portal and Weller Rd.  The 121 also serves "Thompson Estate" and "Ekibin", but it does leave only the 120 serving "Denham Tce" and "Sexton St".

47. Split the 150 into a 151 BUZ and a 156 BUZ, obviously both serving Griffith University.  I also think the outbound 151 if made "High Frequency Priority" should bypass Honeysuckle Way and continue on Gowan Rd until turning right at Illaweena St and continuing until Lichfield Place; obviously reversed inbound.  I would consider that if nothing like this is done, the 150 will require a frequency upgrade anyway.

48. Re-route the 153 from Parkinson along Illaweena St, Gowan Rd, Compton Rd then the Gateway Motorway.  There may also be a need for a rocket or two from Parkinson via Ridgewood Rd, Hellawell Rd and Nemies Rd.  Also, Algester Rd, Beaudesert Rd and Compton Rd.  This would line up with the full time 151 service suggested above.

49. There needs to be a Compton Rd & Gateway Motorway routing for the 141.  Also, there needs to be a rocket serving the bottom part of the 130 corridor and using the Gateway Motorway.

50. Re-route the 130 via Hellawell Rd like the current 132 and abolish the 115 for 110 frequency.  The 132 should be routed back to Calam Rd like the current 130 but also follow the 131 route along Endiandra St or just stick to Algester Rd.  There also needs to be rationalisation of the stopping patterns, and the P129 is now not needed if the 130 has a Captain Cook Bridge routing, although there is a case for a rocket which bypasses Ridgewood Rd.  If the 151 is BUZed along the route described above, then the 130 does not need to cross Beaudesert Rd to serve "Waterstone".

51. Needs to be a "City Precincts" service stopping all stops between Buranda and 8 Mile Plains.  This may also allow the 162, 153 and 118 to go to Elizabeth St on the inbound.

52. Similarly to the above, there may be a need for an 8 Mile Plains to Woolloongabba peak service.  I would suggest this would then either continue or become a new route to head to UQ in service.

53. The 186 is a bit odd in that it loops back on itself.  It could run via Garden City and this would mean it stops on the same side of the road as a 185 to Garden City where interchange would be far quicker than running down Cavendish Rd.  It may well be able to continue on to serve other areas, although it does mean it cannot serve Klump Rd and Dawson Rd.

54. The 540 needs a Captain Cook Bridge, SE Busway, Gateway & Logan Motorways routing to avoid traffic on Beaudesert Rd and Ipswich Rd.

Eastern Bus Routes:

55. The P222 Carindale Rocket has an odd route in that it serves all the same stops as the 200 from Carindale shops except for the Gabba and QSBS, and all the same Old Cleveland Rd stops as the 207.  If it's a rocket, why not use the Captain Cook Bridge like other rockets do?  Heading inbound, there is no need for both the P222 and P207.  Either it should be one or the other, but if the P222, then that should extend to RB&WH.  Heading outbound, the current P207 stops at virtually the same city stops as the P206 so is somewhat useless.  It should be consolidated with the P222 and given a QSBS Platform A stop, at or near the 200 stop.  If the P222, then that can be back-extended to RB&WH relatively easily.

56. The 209 Carindale-UQ should stick to Logan Rd and O'Keefe St and use the old O'Keefe St portal and serve Buranda rather than Woolloongabba.  This would be a fair bit faster, and anyone travelling from the Gabba to UQ Lakes can change at Mater Hill for a 109.  An alternative to requiring an interchange for a 109 is to have a Gabba-UQ route, although I can only see that working out in peak.

57. 202 route is wierd in the sense that it uses Merivale and Cordelia Sts rather than the busway.  It should use the Cornwall St and Juliette St ramps to the busway.  It shouldn't be up to a Carindale route to serve Annerley Rd

58. 203 also wierdly uses Ipswich Rd rather than Logan Rd or (even better) the old O'Keefe St portal which allows serving Buranda.  The old O'Keefe St portal would also likely be faster for the 204.

59. The 230 and 235 Balmoral via South Bank routes should be canned and their frequency used for 231 and 236 via Storey Bridge workings, which would be far faster off peak.  Those heading to the Gabba could walk from Shaftson Av if they are able bodied and for those heading to South Bank it wouldn't be much of an inconvenience to change in the city.

60. If the 231 & 236 were full time, that should serve Kangaroo Point well enough that the eastern part of the 475 and 476 isn't required anymore.  The Ipswich Rd buses and the 109 serve most of the rest of their route well enough that the service isn't really required in my view.  While the PA Hospital loses its direct connection to Fortitude Valley, there are many cross town trips which require an interchange in the city.  I don't see that this trip needs to be given a direct service when it can reasonably easily done in other ways.  Also, with the frequency of the 475/476 the single seat journey is a pretty small advantage.

61. The 250 and 270 routes are pretty wierd.  I don't know why they can't use Adelaide St in both directions, and the notion that they can't access the better quality stops due to being a private operator is an anachronism.  The better quality stops are the underground ones and Adelaide St.  Also the notion of serving both Buranda and Woolloongabba is pretty strange.

62. The 227 should have a via South Bank routing and combine with the 215 and 220 out of QSBS for a 20 minute frequency as far as "Tingalpa".  It doesn't make much sense to sacrifice the frequency for the routing via the Storey Bridge if the frequency can only be hourly.  I suppose an alternative would be to convert the 215 and 220 into 216s and 221s respectively, although I would doubt there is enough patronage for this.

63. I'm uncomfortable with the P201 Carindale Heights Rocket.  I see a need for a rocket running from the current 200/201 terminus, along Pine Mountain Rd and Holland Rd/Marshall Rd into the Wellers Hill busway portal.  That would serve a previously poorly served area along Pine Mountain Rd, at least in peak.  Similarly, I see a need for a rocket service on Samuel St/Winstanley St to serve selected stops east of Eva St and avoid the deviation of the P208.  It would also avoid the Logan St inbound deviation.

North West Bus Routes:

64. Slow Roma St portal-Turbot St inbound routing for 350, 351, 352, 357, 359 buses, and some others.  For the 350 and 352, one possibility is to avoid the busway heading inbound and just stick to Roma St.  It should remain in the busway for outbound though.  Running into QSBS B would solve the problem for 351 & 357 but the only real way to solve it for the 359 is to use the KGSBS for them all.

65. Having the 350/351 serve Albany Creek Rd between Beckett Rd and Maundrell Tce is a missed oportunity.  This service should be provided by the 345, with the 350 and 351 extending to Brendale.  This would free the 357 from serving this.  Late at night when the 359 isn't running the 350 could divert along Keong Rd, Jinker Trk and then the 359 route.  Alternately, the 350 could serve Eatons Hill and the 359 serve Brendale.  Eatons Hill should receive the faster service which ever that is.

66. Consolidate "The Gap" service like this: Re-route the 385 along Settlement Rd, Kaloma Rd and Hilder Rd serving all stops from Settlement Rd then continuing to present "Waterworks" terminus.  Abolish the 380, 382 and the western side of the 379 possibly except for peak services and give the 381 a BUZ frequency.  Also, there would need to a rocket service along the current 385 route, which I will refer to as the 386.  This 381 BUZ should run inbound along Waterworks Rd/Musgrave Rd/College Rd and then to Queen St stops 56-59.  An alternative would be Elizabeth St stop 89.  The 383 rocket would then need to depart the city from the same stop rather than Charlotte St.  The 386 rocket has to squeeze the headways to fit in to the KGSBS outbound platform, even if the 444 & 443 leave KGSBS.  This avoids the slow Roma St-Herschel St-North Quay-Adelaide St inbound routing for the 379/380/381.

67. The 390 needs to be extended and combined with the 397 and 398.  This should give a 15 minute frequency on the current 390 route and a 30 minute frequency on both the 397 and 398 on a half hourly frequency.  Also this route needs a King George Square bus station stop, which avoids the slow Roma St-Herschel St-North Quay-Adelaide St inbound routing for the 390.

68. The 375 eastbound service could avoid the slow Roma St Herschel St/North Quay/Adelaide St routing by staying on Roma St and using Turbot St and Edward St, serving Edward St stop 141 then continuing along Adelaide St as present.

Northern Bus Routes:

69. Similarly, the 370, 375 and 379 all service Valleystop 211, which is fine, but the 334, 335, 346 and 353 service Valleystop 212 on the other side of the pedestrian crossing.  Reportedly it is difficult to get to Valleystop 212 in time if a 334, 335, 346 or 353 come around the corner first.  There is also no guarantee that there would be a passenger that will flag down the service at said stop.  There may be other runs which service this stop and head towards the Royal Brisbane Hospital too.  All the runs heading from the Valley to the Hospital should service a single stop or adjacent stops not separated by a pedestrian crossing.

70. Apparently wasteful northbound routing of the 331/332/341 via Turbot St and Boundary St when Wickham Tce and Upper Edward St would be faster.  Also, the via Spring Hill routings of the 331/332/341 could use a stop on Elizabeth St between Edward and George Sts on the outbound.  Also, I would think that Charlotte St is a better way than Mary St on the inbound, but they need a stop near Charlotte & Edward Sts as well as Charlotte St stop 91.  If not, at least there could be a stop near Mary & George Sts and/or near Mary & Albert Sts.  One further point on this is that the 376 makes sense to have such a routing rather than the present northern busway routing.

71. Returning 331/332/341 rockets need to be put into service on the busway between RB&WH and Roma St.

72. The 680 doesn't need to continue to the city in peak.  At peak times it is more logical for more interchange to trains at Petrie, not less.

73. The 306 and 322 might as well have a common route along St Paul's Tce with the 301, 310 and 315, which would presumably be faster.  It's not at all obvious why it is necessary for them to run along Wickham and Ann Sts.  This would also make it logical to give the 310 and 315 an Adelaide St stop, especially on the outbound.

74. Webster Road corridor needs to be sorted out.  Why's the 346 use Appleby Rd instead which already has the 345 BUZ?  It could stay on Webster Rd until Hamilton Rd.  Also the 353 needs to use Kedron Brook Rd rather than Lamont Rd to be consistent with the other routes.  The 346, 353, P356, 325, 335, P339 all need a single city stop location.  Also, the full time services need to sort out if they are to route via the Valley or Kelvin Grove Rd.  The latter is superior except for congestion in King George Square, and also increasing frequency between RB&WH and the Valley is a good reason to keep them running via the Valley and re-route the 325.  Also the 325's Boondall service is slowed by the milk run and that may be better done by extending the 370 there and truncating the 325 at Chermside.  Although the via Valley service isn't fast either so that point is arguable.  Perhaps present through users change at Chermside for a faster bus, especially on the inbound.  The 325, 335, P339 use Queen St stop 57 but the 346, 353, P356 use Edward St stop 143.  These should all combine on the same stop.

75. The 325 routes from the GPO to Kelvin Grove Rd via Roma St Bus Station, but the P356 routes along College Rd.  Whichever is the superior way should be done by both.

[somebody]

Nightlink Bus Routes:

76. Wasteful routing via Sylvan Rd and Coronation Drive of the N464.  Coronation Drive is already served by the N412.

77. Wasteful routing of the N385 via the Cultural Centre, when it would be faster to just stick to George St & Roma St outbound, and inbound Roma St & Turbot St, again with a stop either at Roma St 124 or 125, and/or near the corner of Roma St & Turbot St.

78. Wasteful routing via the Cultural Centre of the N330 and N390.  These would be better off sticking to George St until Turbot St and then entering the busway.  The inbound N330 could just use Turbot St with a stop at Roma St 124 or 125, leaving the busway at Skew St, and/or somewhere near the corner of Turbot St and Roma St

79. Why an N464 instead of an N444 and/or N450 service?  Forest Lake Blvd could be served by extending the N100

80. Why an N111 instead of an N150 service?  (except that the latter is longer).  This and the above would mean all the BUZ corridors are served by Nightlink except for the 345

81. The N412 needs to be extended along Hawken Dr at least as far as Gailey Rd to serve the 411 corridor as well.  It could conceivably continue as far as Whitmore St.

82. If the west needs to continue to contend with only the N412 and N464 as their Nightlink service, then the N464 should be re-routed to continue along Moggill Rd past the freeway and then Kenmore Rd and left into Fig Tree Pocket Rd then the freeway.  At least this would serve Kenmore and the bottom of Chapel Hill.  This would be less of an advantage if there were an N444.  A change like this may need to be advertised at Kenmore bus stops but it is likely that loads on such a route would require a frequency upgrade to the N464 due to too many people using it.  Similarly for the 453's Jindalee service which could easily be provided by the N464.

Summary of proposed city stop locations:
Changes:
P129, 130, 131, P133, P137, 140, P141, P142, (150), P151, 156, P157, 162, 555 to Elizabeth St, Creek St and either Adelaide St or Ann St. Perhaps a terminus outside Central on Ann St for rail transfers to Central would be nice
105, 107, 108, 112, 114, 116 to the same stop on Adelaide St
113, 117, 124, 125 to QSBS A2
120 from QSBS A4 to Adelaide St to join 119 and 121
134, 135, 155 from QSBS A5 to QSBS A9
161 to Elizabeth St inbound and Adelaide St or Ann St outbound
170, 171, 176 from QSBS C2 to QSBS A8 (*)
172, 173, 174, 175 to QSBS A7
P179 to return to QSBS C1 on the outbound (*)
181, (184), 185, 186 to QSBS C2 (*)
210, P211, 212 to QSBS A5 (*)
214, 215, 220 from QSBS A2 and 227 from the GPO all to QSBS A6
201 from Adelaide St to QSBS A3 (*,!)
207/222 to QSBS A4
202, 203, P208, 250 to Adelaide St (*)
310, 315 from around the GPO to Adelaide St
350-2, 357, 359, 390 to KGSBS into the spare stop and the old 444/443 stop
343, 363, (382), 386 to QSBS platform B in the AM, and to the KGSBS inbound platform in the PM peak
376 to via Spring Hill like the 331/332/341
381, 383 to GPO
346, 353, P356 to Queen St stop 57, but remaining around the GPO
412 to extend along Adelaide St
444/443 to QSBS Platform B

(*) - P201, P207, P208, P211, 171, 176, P179, 181, 186, P119 should all stay on Elizabeth St on the inbound
(!) - If the city stop locations are consistent, it is thought that is no need for more frequency than every 10 minutes for the 200, which would allow the 201 to share stop A3.

Remaining where they are:
66, 111, 330, 333, 340, 345, 385 in KGSBS
100, 110, (115) in QSBS A1
200 in QSBS A3
180, 183 in QSBS C1
118, 320, 321, 325, 335, P339, 372, 373, 377, 378 around the GPO
119, 121, 178, (192), 195-7, 199, 204, 300, 301, 305, 306, 322, westbound 370, 375 & 379 on Adelaide St
inbound P189 on Elizabeth St
243, 251, 257, 261, 265, 267, 271, 273, 275, 279, 281 on Margaret, George, Elizabeth, Creek, Ann, William Sts.
302, 360, 361, 364 on Ann and Elizabeth Sts
331, 332, 341 through Spring Hill
334 on Ann and Adelaide Sts
426/431/446/455/456/461 in QSBS B
425/430/435/450/453/454/460 to remain on QSBS platform B
411, 416, 417, 433, 445 to remain on Adelaide St as there is a need for several routes to serve the Cribb St stop
5xx except 555 & 540 to retain City Gardens routings, and 540 to retain Ann & Elizabeth Sts stops.

The above ignores Storey Bridge routes and "City Precincts" routes, which I would propose should be left alone anyway and the much discussed 109.  Routes in parenthesis have been slated for removal but this may not occur.

The point of most of the above is not so much it has to be done that way.  Just that it is very achievable to improve the city stop locations enormously while removing the requirement to use the "City Gardens" routings.  It would be much nicer to have routes such as the 320, 321, running along Adelaide St rather than stopping short at the GPO.  The 325, 335, P339, 346, 353 and P356 would be nicer run out of KGSBS but there is no more room.


Alternate Proposals:

The Queen St Platform B infrastructure is a problem in that it only allows access in a single direction, and the present way the 4xx services use it is a poor compromise, especially in the PM peak.  A better idea would be moving the 170, 180, 184 and 185 combined with the 171, P176, P179, 180, 181 and 186 in the PM peak to Queen St Platform B, but keep the 17x and 18x rocket service arrivals on Elizabeth St while having the current 425, 430, 433, 435, 443, 444, 445, 450, 453, 454, 460 use the space in Platform C.  Doing that would allow those 4xx expresses to turn right from the platform in the PM peak and access either the Riverside Expressway via the Roma St portal near Ann St, or Milton Rd via the portal at Skew St, and also co-locate the 184/185 with the 180, since they both serve part of Cavendish Rd.  In the AM peak, routes listed in the previous point could move to Queen St platform B and the 426, 431, 436, 446, 455, 456, 461 could continue to use Queen St platform B, but would need street stop locations in the PM peak.  This would mean that only 6 buses an hour off peak need to suffer the inconvenience of the bus turnaround, but Queen St bus station Platform B is as utilised as present.  It would also give a single city stop for Indooroopilly services, even though there are still multiple departure points for buses to Toowong.  This would also free up space in King George Square bus station for Kelvin Grove Rd or The Gap services.  So long as the services are staggered correctly, I see no issue with running the 24 buses/hour in peak out of the 2 stops of Platform C, but it does suffer from the problem that the rocket and express services can't be co-located.  Premium platform A space or street stops would be required to achieve this.  This is another problem with the sacred cow "all BUZ routes must service the Cultural Centre":  In an ideal world, the 444 should keep serving Roma St station, at least until the Go Between Bridge goes through.  If all the 4xx services are to be given street stops rather than use the Go Between Bridge outbound, then (unless the next point is deemed a better idea) I still think moving the 17x and 18x services as described makes sense, but some other corridor could be put into platform C.  Ipswich Rd may be a good alternative.

An alternative to what's been proposed in the previous point is moving the southbound stops from KGSBS to QSBS Platform B.  Main problem with this is that it doesn't have any stops suitable for bendy buses.  (Modifications are possible in theory, but cost dollars and require provisions to be made during construction.)  If all the rigid bus routes (444/443/385/345/330/333/340) are moved, it should still free up enough space in KGSBS to allow in the 325, 350-2, 357, 359 and the 4xx services.  A group could start & terminate on the southbound platform, then use the bus turnaround and head toward Roma St without needing to stop at the Northbound platform.  I see this being best done with the Kelvin Grove Rd services, but that would mean that the 345 couldn't service the Cultural Centre, which is another problem with the sacred cow.  If the 4xx services were to operate this way, you'd still have the 444 BUZ which couldn't service the Cultural Centre.

Running the 376 rocket into Queen St Bus Station Platform B in the AM peak

Having the 222 use the 443 stop in King George Square bus station since they run in the opposite directions.

A wild and radical alternative for the south end of the 130 corridor may be to route via the Birdwood Rd, Wellers Hill portal, Marshall Rd, Toohey Rd, Orange Grove Rd and Bradman St, although this might just as easily be slower.

Splitting the 375 and putting the Bardon side into KGSBS.


Is this re-organisation much of an improvement?

[david]

Thanks for organising all that info! It's much easier to read now! You have certainly put a lot of time and thought into this.

Now for the comments...

I must say that I only want to add to what you have written, rather than criticise, so I hope it comes across that way.

22. The 412's city stop location is pretty bad; it should be co-located with the 411, 415 and 417.  Ideally, these should be co-located with the via Indooroopilly buses but I don't know if that's achievable, and it also assumes that the Indooroopilly routes continue to use Coronation Drive rather than Milton Rd.

Would KGSBS be an option? The 412 could originate from Stop 2D (444 to CC could move to 2A/2B), use the turn around and exit through the Roma St portal near Ann St and straight onto the Riverside Expressway. Of course, this would be excellent if the 109+66 idea ever eventuated, as this would mean both buses leave from KGSBS.

34. Replace 430 and 445 with a loop running every half hour in both directions to Indooroopilly shops, and truncate the 435 at Indooroopilly shops full time but improve the operating hours on it.

I think one of them (430 or 445) needs to stay. It's a good idea truncating services at Indooroopilly though.

35. While the 460 is still running, it should really combine with the 450 to allow interchange at Mt Ommaney shops for the 454 people with a correctly pulsed timetable and a guaranteed connection... 

Great in theory, but the 460 is always notoriously late and most people probably couldn't be bothered changing from the 450 (i'm assuming we're talking about weekends here). I think what is needed is a full-time 452 to Darra, which would give people an alternative. A full-time 452 would also work excellently with a futuristic 450BUZ in the off-peak as the need for a 454 disappears with the 452 option.

35. ...After Richlands station opens, there isn't a need for the 460 if the 100 extends there on an adequate frequency, so you might as well extend the 453 to Sumners Rd, make the 453 & 454 full time and discontinue the 450.

I think you're right there, as a 460 would take much longer to get to the City than a 462+Train. I don't think an extension of the 100 is required, the 462 can be used to fill the service gaps. If the 452 becomes full-time (as I suggested previously), then there probably wouldn't be a need to extend the 453.

Having the 222 use the 443 stop in King George Square bus station since they run in the opposite directions.

Could you elaborate more on this please? I'm confused.

[#Metro]

I think one of them (430 or 445) needs to stay. It's a good idea truncating services at Indooroopilly though.

David and Somebody: Would it be worth discussing bus re-organisation and making some of these feeders in the bus routes reviewed thread? IMHO this should be done by a pro, but nevertheless we could talk about the pros/cons for some and maybe have ideas to kick around.

[somebody]

22. The 412's city stop location is pretty bad; it should be co-located with the 411, 415 and 417.  Ideally, these should be co-located with the via Indooroopilly buses but I don't know if that's achievable, and it also assumes that the Indooroopilly routes continue to use Coronation Drive rather than Milton Rd.

Would KGSBS be an option? The 412 could originate from Stop 2D (444 to CC could move to 2A/2B), use the turn around and exit through the Roma St portal near Ann St and straight onto the Riverside Expressway. Of course, this would be excellent if the 109+66 idea ever eventuated, as this would mean both buses leave from KGSBS.

Yes, but that uses up valuable space in KGSBS.  Also, if the 109 has BUZ frequency or better then the option to use the 412 to get to UQ is less attractive.

34. Replace 430 and 445 with a loop running every half hour in both directions to Indooroopilly shops, and truncate the 435 at Indooroopilly shops full time but improve the operating hours on it.

I think one of them (430 or 445) needs to stay. It's a good idea truncating services at Indooroopilly though.

You mean one of the 430/445 needs to keep the CBD connection?  Then you are saying that you can't do as I suggest.  I suppose one alternative may be to tack the 445 service on to the end of the 430 with an Indooroopilly terminus.

35. While the 460 is still running, it should really combine with the 450 to allow interchange at Mt Ommaney shops for the 454 people with a correctly pulsed timetable and a guaranteed connection... 

Great in theory, but the 460 is always notoriously late and most people probably couldn't be bothered changing from the 450 (i'm assuming we're talking about weekends here). I think what is needed is a full-time 452 to Darra, which would give people an alternative. A full-time 452 would also work excellently with a futuristic 450BUZ in the off-peak as the need for a 454 disappears with the 452 option.

Maybe, but there would be some who could be bothered.  Especially those that recently missed a 450 from the city.

35. ...After Richlands station opens, there isn't a need for the 460 if the 100 extends there on an adequate frequency, so you might as well extend the 453 to Sumners Rd, make the 453 & 454 full time and discontinue the 450.

I think you're right there, as a 460 would take much longer to get to the City than a 462+Train. I don't think an extension of the 100 is required, the 462 can be used to fill the service gaps. If the 452 becomes full-time (as I suggested previously), then there probably wouldn't be a need to extend the 453.

I don't know, I like the single route to allow those that care about a single seat connection to have it.  Also, it connects Inala with Indooroopilly/Toowong/UQ via the train connection.

Having the 222 use the 443 stop in King George Square bus station since they run in the opposite directions.

Could you elaborate more on this please? I'm confused.

Sure.  Both are rockets.  In the AM peak the 222 is heading north through KGSBS, but the 443 is heading south.  In the PM peak this is reversed.

[somebody]

I think what is needed is a full-time 452 to Darra, which would give people an alternative. A full-time 452 would also work excellently with a futuristic 450BUZ in the off-peak as the need for a 454 disappears with the 452 option.

Presumably you would move the 452 back to Horizon Dr in that scenario, rather than chopping off the Westlake bit.  I suppose the 452 service could be tacked on to the end of the 450 and that would serve Sumners Rd, part of which is currently poorly served at present.  That would make a lot of sense for a 450 BUZ as Darra is to get a 15 minute service, so the connection isn't too onerous.  I think I will incorporate that into my document.

[somebody]

A couple of corrections/tidy ups:
Point 45: Last 2 sentences should be italicised.
Point 36: I'm moving the Roma St start idea for the 426/431/446/455/456/461 rockets to the "alternate idea" pile, and I'll just recommend a Charlotte St start.
Point 51: There is also likely to be demand for a "City Precincts" service on the 150 corridor.
Point 61: I'll add "or QSBS" for the 250/270.
Point 34: I'm going to leave as is, but include in the "alternate idea" pile the notion of tacking on the 445 service to the 430 with an Indooroopilly shops/station terminus.  Or tack the 430 Kenmore Rd service on to the end of the 445.  Either would do.

If no one has anything else to add, I will update my document on these lines and I would feel we could move forward with this shortly.

[ozbob]

 

[somebody]

Oh two more things.  There is a case for a via Spring Hill routing a la the 331/332/341 for the P339 and P356.  Main problem with this idea is that it probably should keep the same city stop location, although this point could be argued.  I'll find a place to slot this in.

The other thing is the difficulty of finding which route you want.  Now there is a list of suburbs at the Cultural Centre with a list of routes to that suburb.  This is a good thing.  The major limitation is that "Woolloongabba" includes routes which don't stop at the busway station such as the 160.  There needs to be a section which makes this distinction.  Also for Buranda, Holland Park West, Greenslopes, Griffith Uni - Mt Gravatt and Griffith Uni - Nathan.  These may be present already.  I didn't think to check.  One other problem with the information is that it is organised along operator lines.  This is a bit confusing.

[somebody]

Wanted to add something here.  There is a need to sort out the 204, 210, 212, 215 Stanley Rd and east service.  The minimum change would be to convert the 215 frequencies to 220s, and re-route the 210 away from Creek Rd to Meadowlands Rd to Tingalpa to cover the 215's Belmont Rd/Castlerea St service.  The main limitation with this is that it reduces the connectivity to both Cannon Hill and Carindale shops.  One solution to this is to extend the 212 to Tingalpa instead, and this has no real downsides as compared to the current situation, but it would result in a slower trip than extending/rerouting the 210.

There is also a need to rationalise the Wynnum service between the 220/227, but I won't go into that now.

[somebody]

An alternative to abolishing the 160 for 111 frequency is to extend the 160 to QUT Kelvin Grove, and co-ordinate with the 111 in the southbound direction.

The proposed revamp of Riverhills/Jindalee supersedes point 35, but the green route needs to go to Riverhills via Sumners Rd/Dandenong Rd.