390, 396, 397, 398, 367 - The Brookside shops routes

[somebody]

396 - Leave as is.
390 - Couldn't this bypass Blackwood St?  Is there room on Osbourne Rd for a bus stop near Mitchelton Railway Station?
397 - Should be an extension of the 390
398 - Make an extension of the 390 but re-route around Osbourne Rd and Camelia Av
367 - Start at Brookside to Mitchelton Railway Station, run along Samford Rd, then Upper Kedron Rd.  Therefore no more Ferny Grove Railway Station service.  Serve Great Western shops off peak.  Doing it this way is partly to remove the need for the 398 to serve Samford Rd.  Dawson Pde is an easy walk to the train.

Really, you'd abolish the 390 number and just have 397 and 398, both running at half hourly frequency, all stops and coordinated for 15 minute frequency on the current 390 route.

What's everyone think, is this a too radical shake up, or just a bad idea?

[longboi]

390 - Couldn't this bypass Blackwood St?  Is there room on Osbourne Rd for a bus stop near Mitchelton Railway Station?

What for? Blackwood St is a primary activity centre for the local area and is only growing in significance once the new BCC neighbourhood plan comes into effect.

398 - Make an extension of the 390 but re-route around Osbourne Rd and Camelia Av

Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with the 397 since it already travels along Camelia Ave?

367 - Start at Brookside to Mitchelton Railway Station, run along Samford Rd, then Upper Kedron Rd.  Therefore no more Ferny Grove Railway Station service.  Serve Great Western shops off peak.  Doing it this way is partly to remove the need for the 398 to serve Samford Rd.  Dawson Pde is an easy walk to the train.

Removing the link to FG station is a big no-no IMO. The whole point of such a route would be to improve local connections along the corridor in both directions. By omitting FG station and Great Western in peak you're limiting the flexibility of the route and impeding on the thing that would make such a route successful and thats connecting residential areas to multiple local activity centres.

Also, I think the 398 should stay on Samford Rd. Combined with your proposed 367 and to some extent the 362, you would incidentally improve frequencies and therefore encourage more PT use in the Grovely/Keperra area.

Really, you'd abolish the 390 number and just have 397 and 398, both running at half hourly frequency, all stops and coordinated for 15 minute frequency on the current 390 route.

Its interesting because it would essentially be a hybrid route; Local Upper Kedron-Mitchelton then all stops Citybus Mitchelton-City. As long as you don't have Upper Kedron commuters wanting to travel the entire route instead of transferring to train at FG or Mitchy it could work well.

[somebody]

What for? Blackwood St is a primary activity centre for the local area and is only growing in significance once the new BCC neighbourhood plan comes into effect.

My thinking is that the train station is less than a 10 minute walk away.  Why slow down through pax?

398 - Make an extension of the 390 but re-route around Osbourne Rd and Camelia Av

Wouldn't it make more sense to do this with the 397 since it already travels along Camelia Ave?

Yes, but didn't I already say to do so?

367 - Start at Brookside to Mitchelton Railway Station, run along Samford Rd, then Upper Kedron Rd.  Therefore no more Ferny Grove Railway Station service.  Serve Great Western shops off peak.  Doing it this way is partly to remove the need for the 398 to serve Samford Rd.  Dawson Pde is an easy walk to the train.

Removing the link to FG station is a big no-no IMO. The whole point of such a route would be to improve local connections along the corridor in both directions. By omitting FG station and Great Western in peak you're limiting the flexibility of the route and impeding on the thing that would make such a route successful and thats connecting residential areas to multiple local activity centres.

Also, I think the 398 should stay on Samford Rd. Combined with your proposed 367 and to some extent the 362, you would incidentally improve frequencies and therefore encourage more PT use in the Grovely/Keperra area.

Ok, but I can't see how you can justify the 367 to Brookside if it's already going to a train station at FG.  I do wonder which would be faster: Upper Kedron to FG/Keperra/Mitchelton. 

If the 398 stays on Samford Road and is also combined with the current 390 then it needs to double back on itself to serve Brookside shops.

Really, you'd abolish the 390 number and just have 397 and 398, both running at half hourly frequency, all stops and coordinated for 15 minute frequency on the current 390 route.

Its interesting because it would essentially be a hybrid route; Local Upper Kedron-Mitchelton then all stops Citybus Mitchelton-City. As long as you don't have Upper Kedron commuters wanting to travel the entire route instead of transferring to train at FG or Mitchy it could work well.

They would certainly do so.  It would only make sense to transfer if you are heading somewhere on the north side of town like the Caboolture line.  Even Chermside you might as well stay on the bus until Normanby.  But is that the biggest problem?

[Golliwog]

Not a fan of the 397 being taken off of Dawson Pde. Theres 2 schools, a church, a TAFE, the Arana Leagues Club and a railway station that would all lose this route. I get having 2 routes servicing Samford Rd is a bit redundant, but I still think Dawson Pde needs this service.

[somebody]

Not a fan of the 397 being taken off of Dawson Pde. Theres 2 schools, a church, a TAFE, the Arana Leagues Club and a railway station that would all lose this route. I get having 2 routes servicing Samford Rd is a bit redundant, but I still think Dawson Pde needs this service.

I think you mean 398.

I'll take that under advisement, but aren't all those things easy walking distance from the train anyway?

[Golliwog]

Of the train yes. But the whole idea of the route is that its a feeder of sorts and so collects people from across Arana Hills and Ferny Hills who want to go to these places. Also, Dawson Pde is very much not flat and isn't easily walkable by many people.

[somebody]

Ok.  Not sure what your proposal is though.  More of the same wrt 398?

[Golliwog]

What I outlined in the BUZification thread. Combine the 390 and 396 so the 390 now terminates on Collins Rd. Leave the 397 and 367 as they are currently. Add a new route (could be called the 396 as this route number would now be free) which runs from Brookside along Samford Rd and then into Upper Kedron via the Great Western (possibly via FG station, but most likely not). Then as Samford Rd would be covered, the 398 could be changed so that instead of running via Samford Rd from Dawson Pde to Brookside it can go via the side streets near Oxford Park station. As this would lose some coverage from Dawson Pde, the 362 from Brookside to The Gap could also have its running changed slightly so it turns down Dawson Pde and goes almost to Grovely Station before turning into say Kane Street (or even Madsen St) and going to the Keperra Station that way instead of the current Gilston St route.

Or instead, the 390 could combine with the 397 as you suggest, and the 396 could have its route extended so it goes Collins Rd to Brookside as it does currently, then continue outbound from there on Samford Rd to Upper Kedron via the Great Western. The other routes would still change as above.

[somebody]

I still favour my proposal.  Perhaps I am biased.

I do definitely favour sorting out CBD trips before local trips, especially in the inner suburbs.

[longboi]

My thinking is that the train station is less than a 10 minute walk away.  Why slow down through pax?

There's also a large shopping precinct in Blackwood St and many older people prefer shopping there to Brookside. Not to mention there is significant development occuring around Blackwood St/Kedron Ave/McConaghy St when the new plan comes into effect.

Yes, but didn't I already say to do so?

Yeah...but you also said 398 should follow that route in your OP.

Ok, but I can't see how you can justify the 367 to Brookside if it's already going to a train station at FG.  I do wonder which would be faster: Upper Kedron to FG/Keperra/Mitchelton.

Simple. In one direction you have primarily Upper Kedron/Ferny Grove pax travelling to the City or other areas on the rail network would travel to FG station and in the other direction you have Upper Kedron, Ferny Grove pax. travelling to Great Western and Mitchelton as well as providing services in both directions for pax. along the route in Keperra, Grovely and Mitchy.

If the 398 stays on Samford Road and is also combined with the current 390 then it needs to double back on itself to serve Brookside shops.

Not necessarily. Inbound it could travel from Dawson Pde, (L) Samford Rd, (L) Blackwood St. (R) Sussex St, Brookside, (L) Osbourne Rd, (L) Samford Rd and on into the City.

They would certainly do so.  It would only make sense to transfer if you are heading somewhere on the north side of town like the Caboolture line.  Even Chermside you might as well stay on the bus until Normanby.  But is that the biggest problem?

Then you're just duplicating the rail line and displacing inner city pax who use the 390 along Enoggera Rd/Kelvin Grove Rd etc. It seems inefficient when you have the FG line right there.

[somebody]

Yeah...but you also said 398 should follow that route in your OP.

But then I went on to explain that I meant half the 390s continue as 397s and half as 398s.  I suppose one option is that the 390+397 avoids Blackwood St, and leaves that to the 390+398.  But that assumes that the 390+398 continues to use Samford Rd and Dawson Pde.  Really, IMO the Blackwood St service is best left to the 367, if that is extended to Brookside.

Ok, but I can't see how you can justify the 367 to Brookside if it's already going to a train station at FG.  I do wonder which would be faster: Upper Kedron to FG/Keperra/Mitchelton.

Simple. In one direction you have primarily Upper Kedron/Ferny Grove pax travelling to the City or other areas on the rail network would travel to FG station and in the other direction you have Upper Kedron, Ferny Grove pax. travelling to Great Western and Mitchelton as well as providing services in both directions for pax. along the route in Keperra, Grovely and Mitchy.

Well, if the 390+398 is to stay on Samford Rd and Dawson Pde, there isn't nearly as much reason for this service to go back to Brookside.  It may as well be a FG-Upper Kedron-Great Western-Keperra Station shuttle.

If the 398 stays on Samford Road and is also combined with the current 390 then it needs to double back on itself to serve Brookside shops.

Not necessarily. Inbound it could travel from Dawson Pde, (L) Samford Rd, (L) Blackwood St. (R) Sussex St, Brookside, (L) Osbourne Rd, (L) Samford Rd and on into the City.

But that's still a bit of a deviation for it.

They would certainly do so.  It would only make sense to transfer if you are heading somewhere on the north side of town like the Caboolture line.  Even Chermside you might as well stay on the bus until Normanby.  But is that the biggest problem?

Then you're just duplicating the rail line and displacing inner city pax who use the 390 along Enoggera Rd/Kelvin Grove Rd etc. It seems inefficient when you have the FG line right there.

Well I still say that it's not the biggest problem.  And it's likely to attract more pax to PT, so it's a price worth paying.  The FG line is inefficient.  And there would be incentive to change in peak, just not off peak.  I could go on, but I think I'll leave it at that.

[Golliwog]

If the 398 stays on Samford Road and is also combined with the current 390 then it needs to double back on itself to serve Brookside shops.

Not necessarily. Inbound it could travel from Dawson Pde, (L) Samford Rd, (L) Blackwood St. (R) Sussex St, Brookside, (L) Osbourne Rd, (L) Samford Rd and on into the City.

But that's still a bit of a deviation for it.

Only of the magnitude of the deviation of buses to service the Indooroopilly shopping centre from Moggil Rd.

[somebody]

Only of the magnitude of the deviation of buses to service the Indooroopilly shopping centre from Moggil Rd.

Slightly more, but in the same ball park.  Also, there's more traffic lights at Brookside.

The thing about Indro, is that it wouldn't be easy to fix.  That would require some sort of interchange at the other end of the shops, and some method of getting from the flyover down to the interchange.  It annoys me a little bit that the interchange was 50m closer to Moggill Rd so that the Moggill Rd buses could avoid the lights at the end of the interchange.