Platform heights and gaps: Discussion, articles etc.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Queensland Rail fails to mind the gap at Indooroopilly train station

Queensland Rail fails to mind the gap at Indooroopilly train station

    * by Ursula Heger
    * From: The Courier-Mail
    * April 26, 2010 12:00AM

A DANGEROUS gap between the platform and trains at Indooroopilly station has been worsened by bungled track work, and Queensland Rail staff failed to report the fault to senior management.

Furious interim Queensland Rail boss Paul Scurrah admitted that staff knew routine maintenance conducted last year had exacerbated the gap but said they failed to tell him even after passengers were injured.

The gap – which measures up to 40cm in some places – exists partly because the station was built on a curved part of the train line.

Mr Scurrah said testing done on the station in August last year found re-sleepering work had worsened the gap by 7cm at the station – one of the busiest across the southeast.

But when The Courier-Mail reported in September that commuters had been injured after falling in the gap, QR executives denied anything could be done to fix the problems, and attributed the gap to the curvature of the track.

Yesterday Mr Scurrah admitted that while some parts of QR were aware that the gap had been made worse – and could have been returned to its former size – the information was not disclosed.

Mr Scurrah said he would launch an investigation into how the problem was kept secret, and said that information sharing between QR's passenger and network divisions would improve when the divisions combined in July.

"The part of the business I am responsible for, QR Passenger, was acting on complaints about the height, and gaps are not unusual for us. There was never any information provided to me that said that that gap had been worsened by the actions of the re-sleepering," he said. "That information has only been made available to me (on Friday) and I'm bitterly disappointed that is the case."

He said emergency work to lower the tracks by 7cm would be undertaken next weekend, at a cost of just under $100,000.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said she also had not been made aware that the gap had been made worse until last week. She said the situation was "unacceptable", and highlighted the poor communication within QR.

"I've expressed in no uncertain terms with QR senior executives that I expect a professional line of communication," she said.

[ozbob]

Some related discussion --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1373.msg25820#msg25820

[ozbob]

Indooroopilly was always going to come back and bite!   It should have been mitigated some what as part of the upgrade.  There are options available, the latest rumour is that there may be a general track lowering, all 4 tracks to improve the situation.  This should have been done then.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=300.0

[ozbob]

The approach in Victoria

Criteria for Design of New and Substantially Altered Railway Platforms click --> here!

[ozbob]

There was a short segment on Indooroopilly station on the Channel 7 news this evening, essentially echoing the CM article.

Had some footage of pax leaving the train at platforms, highlighting the high step down and gap.

[mufreight]

And the channel 7 news did not show the brisbane end of platform 2 which is as bad as it gets, as for $100.000 to undercut and lower the track on all four tracks can we get through FOI the actual costs for this exercise in rectifing the stupidity of the bureaucrats who could have raised the level of the platforms when they were rebuilt when the station was refurbished.
Just as a side note the resleepering was carried out prior to the reconstruction of the platforms so it would seem that once again we are being served politicial porkies.
This all raises the question of the new platform 3 at Oxley which also exceeds the step height into the carriage at the Corinda end.
The height of the platforms at Darra where platforms 2,3 and 4 are all being completely rebuilt but do not comply with the new Commonwealth Disability Access Act requirements raising question as to liability when the inevitable accident occours injuring a passenger.

[#Metro]

Everyone knew there was a gap.
It was discussed in Parliament, I think it was raised by the local member it is on the public record in the hansard.
A gap is a gap. Now everyone is "concerned", not the gap, but a 7cm increase in the gap. Truth is, it was always there.

The thing is, is it really true that the curves cause uneven platform heights. Or did they mean a slope?

A lot of money has been spent on Indooroopilly Station.
For $100 000, that's roughly equivalent to 33 train services to Ipswich worth...

[ozbob]

Darra --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1373.msg25865#msg25865

[mufreight]

No matter how this is viewed the bottom line is gross incompetence and lack of planning, so much for SEQUIP and Translink when it comes to planning for public transport infrastructure and wasting the public purse half doing projects that they are aware do not or will not comply with Commonwealth Dissability Access Legslation, and are potentialy unsafe for the general public.

[ozbob]

Hopefully this interview might be up on the 612 ABC Breakfast blog later today ..

==============

Twitter

612brisbane
 
If you're at, or travelling through, Indooroopilly train station, look out for reporter @AOK69 - about to interview @ScottEmersonMP + QR
about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

[ozbob]

From 612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast with Spencer Howson

"Mind the gap" at Indooroopilly Station

27 April 2010 , 8:04 AM by Anne O'Keeffe

Indro Station Are you one of the 1700 peak hour passengers who use Indooroopilly Station? It's the busiest station outside the Brisbane CBD and underwent an upgrade in 2008 to give it a facelift and improve accessability.

But last year after sleeper-work, passengers suddenly had to contend with a larger gap between the train and platform... some have been injured and there have been repeated calls for the problem to be fixed.

Click --> here!

[somebody]

Indro Station Are you one of the 1700 peak hour passengers who use Indooroopilly Station? It's the busiest station outside the Brisbane CBD and underwent an upgrade in 2008 to give it a facelift and improve accessability.

That's actually not true.  It's only the busiest station on the Ipswich line.

As for platform heights, I hear that carriage floor height platforms prevent the passage of coal wagons.  Is this true?

[ozbob]

Well,  if you look at platforms 5 and 6 Central - full height various wagons and locomotives have run through there.

I think people can accept that the many of the stations were done in a different era.  The point being that when there is a significant upgrade a new station with straight platforms should be considered, which removes most of the issues if that was done. Indooroopilly could have been done further east (with a bus interchange), similarly Darra could have been rebuilt with 4 straight platforms.  

It is too late now, so "mind the gap" ....   Indooroopilly may yet undergo further track lowering, aside from what is planned this coming weekend ...

The other issue looming as I understand it (still trying to get authoritative confirmation) is that from 1st July any new station or significant upgrade must be DDA compliant, no exemptions like now for existing stations etc.  Hence the mad scramble to get Darra finished  in a few weeks ...

[somebody]

Well,  if you look at platforms 5 and 6 Central - full height various wagons and locomotives have run through there.

...

It is too late now, so "mind the gap" ....   Indooroopilly may yet undergo further track lowering, aside from what is planned this coming weekend ...

Wouldn't platform raising be easier than track lowering?

As for Central 5 & 6, I can't think of a reason why coal wagons would want to go through there.  Of course, I can't think of a reason why flat's would either and I'm pretty sure that has been done although it is less illogical.

[ozbob]

There is a track lowering scheduled for Indooroopilly this coming weekend according to the report above.  It can be done relatively easily compared to the station itself.  I think it is too late for Indooroopilly in terms of platform raising.

[mufreight]

Well,  if you look at platforms 5 and 6 Central - full height various wagons and locomotives have run through there.

...

It is too late now, so "mind the gap" ....   Indooroopilly may yet undergo further track lowering, aside from what is planned this coming weekend ...

Wouldn't platform raising be easier than track lowering?

As for Central 5 & 6, I can't think of a reason why coal wagons would want to go through there.  Of course, I can't think of a reason why flat's would either and I'm pretty sure that has been done although it is less illogical.

The platforms at Indooroopilly could have and should have been raised when the refurbishment was done curve notwithstanding, To allow for the raising of the platform the coping is moved back to provide the clearance, a 100 to 175 mm horozontal gap poses a lesser risk than a 400mm + vertical gap with the carriage floor sloping away from the platform due to the cant (superelevation) of the track.
As for Central platforms 5 & 6 the Westlander operates through platform 6 on its outbound journey with anything from 5 to 7 freight waggons attached to the rear.
The Sunlander, Quenslander and the Spirit of the Outback also operate through Central with motorail (car carrier) waggons in the composition of the trains.
Container trains have also been operated thgough platform 6 and on occasion have done so hauled by 2800 class locos which are restricted in the tracks that they can operate on because of their being over dimension when compared to other locos.
It is also worth noting that these platforms were built or rebuily  not by QR Passenger who will inherit this substandard infrastructure but by QR Network and SEQUIP, we would think that this will all change after the seperation of QR takes place 

[somebody]

Am I to assume from the above no-one has see a coal hopper head through Central 5 or 6?

[ozbob]

Coal hoppers conform to the same Rolling stock gauges around Brisbane as for other rolling stock.

See # Metropolitan System Information Pack - Issue 2 - Sept 2007  (7 MB)  available from here  Appendix H for non electric rolling stock

See  here!  Page  384  Brisbane Coal Traffic Rolling stock diagram.


They are the same ...

[O_128]

The obvious cheaper option would be the lower the tracks at stations and have a horizontal gap, we can start with the entire ferny grove line, shorncliffe line and cleveland line from wynnum north

[tomato]

 " Mr Scurrah said he would launch an investigation into how the problem was kept secret, and said that information sharing between QR's passenger and network divisions would improve when the divisions combined in July. "

Interesting comment from the original Courier Mail article at the top of the page.... &

It is also worth noting that these platforms were built or rebuily  not by QR Passenger who will inherit this substandard infrastructure but by QR Network and SEQUIP, we would think that this will all change after the seperation of QR takes place 

So it seems coal rails in Central Qld go to the soon to be privatised QRN Limited, QR Passenger regains control of the metro "passenger" lines -- what about the rest of the state?  The North Coast line (less that taken by QRN in Central Qld) , the Toowoomba line & west, Mt Isa etc etc   

[ozbob]

I recall vaguely some circumstances that lead to coal trains running through Central.  I think it went something like this, a bit vague and needs corroboration.  There was a points failure at Corinda which prevented coal trains crossing onto the Tennyson line.  They went via mains, through central and around the Exhibition loop, back to Sherwood and then onto the Tennyson line. They may have also gone via South Brisbane and down to the port that way. I am sure they went through 6 or possibly 5 if they went clockwise.  I seem to recall that this has happened more than once.  But as I said I am a bit vague ...

This reminds me of something else that happened one day. Some strange things have happened at Corinda due to points failures at Corinda.  I recall one day leaving Oxley in the first car and arriving at Roma St in the last car.   Huh?  Well it went like this, we left Oxley and we pulled into Corinda, platform one from memory.  The points were stuck for that road.  From that road it is only possible to go to Tennyson. So the guard announced we would be going on to the Tennyson line, and we would then reverse into town.  Crikey!  And away we went, onto the Tennyson line.  Parked, driver changed ends and we headed in the opposite direction to Sherwood, and then all stations to town.  I was now in the last car.

[Arnz]

So it seems coal rails in Central Qld go to the soon to be privatised QRN Limited, QR Passenger regains control of the metro "passenger" lines -- what about the rest of the state?  The North Coast line (less that taken by QRN in Central Qld) , the Toowoomba line & west, Mt Isa etc etc   

If I recall correctly the North Coast Line between Bowen Hills and Gympie North falls under QRPassenger/QRNetwork in the restructure. 

I'm assuming QRNetwork will retain control of the infrastructure (from reading pas reports), so the North Coast Line between Gympie and Cairns, Western Line, Tooowoomba, etc falls under QRNetwork.

[mufreight]

The obvious cheaper option would be the lower the tracks at stations and have a horizontal gap, we can start with the entire ferny grove line, shorncliffe line and cleveland line from wynnum north

The idea of lowering the rails through platforms has some merit but also a lot of problems, if there is a subway is there sufficent depth under the sleepers between the base of the sleepers and the top of the subway?
If the tracks were to be lowered so that the platform was at carriage floor height then in many cases the platform coping would need to be cut back to maintain horozontal clearance.
The height of the overhead would need to be adjusted to suit the lowered track level.

[Golliwog]

Not to mention that its not always just as simple as removing some ballast. There needs to be a certain minimum depth of ballast, not sure what QR uses as its minimum though. So some places you would have to dig below the ballast to give it more room. Plus, you have stations like Mitchelton, where you have a road crossing straight after the station, which could be a problem if theres a big lowering of the tracks.

[ozbob]

I just went and had another good look at 6 and 5 Central.  6 is curved of course and no problems with a full height platform with a flat step off.  Having seen what runs through there, it is little wonder that there is a bit of skepticism around with some of the 'official' excuses about platforms ...

[O_128]

I just went and had another good look at 6 and 5 Central.  6 is curved of course and no problems with a full height platform with a flat step off.  Having seen what runs through there, it is little wonder that there is a bit of skepticism around with some of the 'official' excuses about platforms ...

You should try and get a video of a freight train going through

[mufreight]

Bowen Hills platforms 3 & 4 are full height also, the interesting point there is that 2/3rds of the way down platform 4 there is a set of points for the line through the hole in the wall to connect with the Exhibition loop line.
There is no additional setback of the platform coping compared with the rest of the length of this platform and the longest and widest rollingstock operating on the system, the EMU, SMU IMU and ICE sets are operated through that station on the Exhibition services without  the trailing ends of the carriages striking the platform as they turn.
Further proof that we are being told politicaly expedient porkies in relation to platform heights.

[david]

The other issue looming as I understand it (still trying to get authoritative confirmation) is that from 1st July any new station or significant upgrade must be DDA compliant, no exemptions like now for existing stations etc.  Hence the mad scramble to get Darra finished  in a few weeks ...

Perhaps platforms 1 and 2 will be full height platforms because according to the flyer Trackstar handed out today, the platforms won't be finished until late 2010. After taking a look today, they do look fairly promising 

[mufreight]

Platform 2 at Darra, the old platforn 1 is being rebuilt at its original height so it will be the same height as platform 3 the old platform 2 which is quite obviously at the original low platform height which does not meet the new (as I understand it ) heights required under the commonwealth disability access regulations.
Will be interesting to see who foots the bill to rectify this non compling new work and who is legaly responsible when the inevitable happens and someone is injured as a consequence and sues for damages.

[ozbob]

Looks like work is proceeding this weekend at Indooroopilly to lower some tracks.

From observations thread:

Ipswich line, subs UP and Down closed Roma St through to Sherwood.  UP road at Indooroopilly has been partially removed west of the platform.  Might be the start of the track lowering ...

Track closure on the Ipswich line this weekend Corinda to Rosewood as well.

just at indro, freight carriages of different designs were lined up along platform 2 with people measuring heights etc

Why this wasn't done as part of the station upgrade is the obvious question???

[somebody]

Why this wasn't done as part of the station upgrade is the obvious question???

Because they screwed it up is the obvious answer.  Oh well, no use crying about spilt milk.

[mufreight]

More like a case of they were fully aware of what they were doing but determined to do nothing to make the rebuilt platforms compliant with the requirements for disabled access that they were fully aware would become mandatory this year.
This is typical of the short sighted politicaly expedient approach of the current government that in the process of "saving money" wastes millions to only half do the job.
More examples are,-
Fortitude Valley, the platforms there could and should have been raised to full height for the full length.
Oxley platform 3 as a new construction could and should have been built to a full height and the platform for the fourth track built as part of the track quadruplication.
Darra the new platform 1 should be being built to full height and platforms 2 - 3 & 4 which like indooroopilly are receiving full rebuilds should also be being rebuilt to full carriage floor height so that they will comply with the new Commonwealth disability access
regulations.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 25th June 2010 page 22

QR revamp plugs a gap

[Matt]

Does anyone know why there are no platforms that are level with the train floors, many times I have seen or helped mums struggling to board a train and having to drag a pram up onto the train floor which can be at least 30 cm higher than the platform.

[red dragin]

The newer station's and some key ones are level.

It's a throw back to the older steel and timber carriages.

[tazzer9]

Does anyone know why there are no platforms that are level with the train floors, many times I have seen or helped mums struggling to board a train and having to drag a pram up onto the train floor which can be at least 30 cm higher than the platform.

For stations that aren't level despite having recent development and improvements.  No one knows why.
For older stations its mainly because of the curvature and to make sure trains(including freight) don't hit the platform when passing through.


Fun fact, In sydney, there is no platform that is level with any train.   

[SurfRail]

For all the issues we still have, the only system with a higher proportion of platforms at the correct height seems to be Perth at 100%.  A huge chunk of Perth's network simply didn't exist pre-DDA, and there only three relatively short lines to fix up.  We could be doing a lot better, but there are many worse places.

[OzGamer]

I rode the Caltrain in San Francisco recently and on that system you still have to climb steps to board the train: