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Author Topic: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards  (Read 2451 times)

Online ozbob

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Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« on: May 08, 2016, 02:57:45 AM »
Couriermail --> Brisbane Live proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards

Quote
A $2 BILLION plan to transform the heart of Brisbane by developing a world-class entertainment and park precinct above the Roma St rail yards will be handed to the State Government this week.

At the centre of the “Brisbane Live” proposal – based on the LA Live complex in the US – is a new 17,000-seat state-of-the-art arena to showcase superstar performers and host international-level indoor sports events.

Featuring a sliding front wall that opens to reveal live acts on stage, the $450 million arena will also include a 4000-capacity rock club and be surrounded by multiplex cinemas, restaurants and bars, and a giant screen and amphitheatre.

It would all be built above stations for the planned Cross River Rail link and Brisbane Metro system.

....

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said: “The Brisbane Live proposal is an exciting idea that could reshape our city.

“It is a great example of the kind of transformational infrastructure that will be possible by delivering Cross River Rail.”

...


 :pfy: :pfy: :pfy: :pfy:

A jurisdiction that cannot even open the ' rear doors of buses ' or deliver simple network and fare reform couldn't manage to deliver this I am afraid ...

Wankfest!
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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2016, 03:04:22 AM »
Sunday Mail --> Editorial: Brisbane on track with grand vision for Roma St railyard

Quote
BRISBANE is on the verge of going to the next level as a world city. With South Bank firmly established, Queen’s Wharf due to be completed by 2022, and a second airport runway also to be ready by then, things are looking up. Now, as revealed today, there’s another major project that could be the icing on the cake.

AEG Ogden, one of the world’s most powerful entertainment and promotion companies, has outlined a vision for above the antiquated Roma St railyard precinct. If ever there was an eyesore in Brisbane that needed a facelift, this is it.

At the centre of the “Brisbane Live” proposal – based on the LA Live complex in the US – is a new 17,000-seat state-of-the-art entertainment arena.

Featuring a sliding front wall that opens to reveal live acts on stage, the $450 million arena will also include a 4000-capacity rock club and will be surrounded by multiplex cinemas, restaurants and bars, and a giant screen and amphitheatre.

It would all be built above stations for the planned Cross River Rail link and Brisbane Metro transit system.

The concept to put a lid over the rail corridor between the Normanby Fiveways and Roma St Forum is the brainchild of Brisbane-based AEG Ogden, part of the world’s biggest venue operator, the Anschutz Entertainment Group. The funding model involves private-public equity, but with AEG Ogden involved, it’s a serious project.

The challenge for government is to ensure it is given every opportunity to succeed.

The last thing Queensland needs is Treasury boffins and departmental bureaucrats to get in the way.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk and Infrastructure Minister Jackie Trad should personally steer this project. It is that important.

Serious delusion at the Sunday Mail too.  Queensland is struggling to do even the basics ...  :fp:
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2016, 03:09:22 AM »
This is just 'planning porno'.

It is feeding the electorate scraps of information, drip, drip, about infrastructure fantasies

and veritable bubble bath of 'proposed works'.

We have seen this all before. It is very irritating to see it again.

What is wrong with all the other venues around Brisbane? $2 BN? Who is paying for that (or are bankers from the 'private sector' riding on

the back of unicorns with suitcases full of cash going to pay for it?)




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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2016, 03:23:28 AM »
Brisbane is a delusional place -  everything is based on fantasy.  I luv the way the ' metro ' is embedded in group think!  An aberrant nonsense.

Cross River Rail is still struggling, still haven't done the business case.  I don't know how they will build over structures/infrastructure that only exists in pipe-dreams.  The real significant opportunity to tie in ' value capture ' and Cross River Rail was lost with the now stand alone Queens Wharf.  Hardly inspire confidence do the clowns in Government - all levels.   :frs:

What a sad and sorry mess it is hey?

 :frs: :frs: :frs: :frs:

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Offline James

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2016, 06:37:43 AM »
Quote
BRISBANE is on the verge of going to the next level as a world city.

Oh my goodness, these people should try being stand-up comedians instead of journalists.

Another ugly concrete monument on top of train tracks will NOT make Brisbane a world-class city AT ALL. You have to wonder what is going through their minds in George St... or whether the people in George St think at all! :o
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2016, 06:46:00 AM »
Brisbane is a really nice place, just the politics are truly diabolical, state and local.

Local is actually more stable because the funding is tied to rates (except transport, where the link between projects and rates is significantly weaker - coincidence here with the dysfunction?) so any wild ideas fall directly on ratepayers who can punish the administration at the ballot box. Local also has a longer term, and so is much more stable.

State is diabolical because most of the income is coming from GST etc, so the costs of wild ideas don't fall directly on people's houses or incomes. Three-year term promotes permanent campaign mode. At least that will change very soon with 4-year terms. Over time the state should move towards land tax/payroll tax as main sources of income - just for the accountability at the ballot box reasons.

Local rags leave much to be desired. They are not even using proper photography anymore, I see the same photo recycled multiple times for years or generic stock photos. Very little thinking is happening, mostly posturing.

Very little is questioned and scrutinised sadly.

It is going to be very difficult to construct things in a high voltage wire environment with trains running underneath. Usually one needs cranes, and cranes are made of metal and conduct. The voltage is ~25kVa IIRC which would just fry anything to smithereens on contact.

Then there is the foundations which need to be driven into the ground somehow. How is that going to work with the underground tunnels and so forth? Isn't there an old creek that runs under there also. I can already see the $$$ mounting up.

$2BN for a venue that holds around 20 000 pax? Seems pretty costly! Why not build something further out, like at Woolloongabba where there is actually land?

UPDATE: They are also going over the top of the busway tunnel and so forth. See here http://www.brisbanelive.com.au/

There is a Plan B Parmalat site option, which I think is not as sexy (or expensive as a Roma Street option) but is likely to be far less disruptive and cheaper.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 08:45:51 AM by LD Transit »
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2016, 09:55:31 AM »
New arena unveiled ---- >

https://brisbanedevelopment.com/unveiled-new-2-billion-brisbane-live-entertainment-arena-precinct/



Offline Gazza

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2016, 10:26:47 AM »
I don't think it's a question of whether the government can deliver this, and how it relates to their inability to open the bus back door....
Melbourne built Federation Square above electrified rail lines, despite the fact their public transport was in the doldrums back then.
In other words, governments can be OK at some things and crap in other areas.

As for the proposal itself, it sounds pretty much like how Maddison Square Garden is above Penn station in NYC.
I don't mind it as a proposal with CRR....value capture and all that, and major arenas are good to be co located with transport.

Just so long as this is all privately funded.

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2016, 10:36:17 AM »
If Cross River Rail can get a kick along with the Federal Election who knows?

In any case I don't think anything much will happen until it is clear what is happening with CRR.  I don't consider the ' metro ' as proposed a realistic proposal. 

The State Government is good at talking up plans but doing very little in reality.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 12:58:16 PM by ozbob »
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Offline STB

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2016, 10:49:34 AM »
Hang on, whoa whoa whoa at all this negativity, I thought when I read it that it would be built and funded by a private company like Queens Wharf is?

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2016, 11:14:08 AM »
Hang on, whoa whoa whoa at all this negativity, I thought when I read it that it would be built and funded by a private company like Queens Wharf is?

Being realistic.. Just because property developers want to make a fast buck doesn't make it a goer.

The failure to value capture Queens Wharf for CRR is a measure of the incompetence of the clowns, fact.
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Offline STB

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2016, 11:22:12 AM »
Hang on, whoa whoa whoa at all this negativity, I thought when I read it that it would be built and funded by a private company like Queens Wharf is?

Being realistic.. Just because property developers want to make a fast buck doesn't make it a goer.

Well hang on a tic, Roma Street station badly does need to be redone as it's a complete eyesore at the moment, so any redevelopment proposal I have no problems with, there might even be a chance that the developers want to chip in with Cross River Rail as well reducing the financial input that the State (and hopefully the Federal) Governments put in.

I'd be putting it this way - does Rail: Back On Track support the redevelopment of Roma Street Station and get rid of that 1980s eyesore that is Roma Street Transit Centre?  If yes, then how best to advocate for that to encourage both the private company involved and the Government to get it right and more importantly get it built?   Be constructive, you all sound jaded and defeated, it's very depressing - and living in Brisbane is depressing enough.

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2016, 11:52:09 AM »
No real detail yet.

Labor are a major disappointment no wonder folks are p%ssed  off. Lol
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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2016, 01:02:04 PM »
Brisbanetimes --> Qld govt won't pay for $2b precinct

Quote
Queensland's deputy premier has welcomed a $2 billion proposal for a 17,000-seat arena and entertainment precinct in Brisbane's CBD, but says the private sector will have to pay for it.

Brisbane-based company AEG Ogden is set to pitch its Brisbane Live precinct plan to the state government this week, with plans to build it above a station for the yet-to-be-approved Cross River Rail project.

"A market-led proposal is based on the premise that the proponent - the person who puts in the project - funds it," Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said on Sunday.

No kidding huh?   :hc
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Offline techblitz

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2016, 01:11:34 PM »
i support full redevelopment of the entire roma st area....on the proviso they keep/fully restore the old building/platform for heritage purposes.Its an historical landmark imo.....

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2016, 01:26:38 PM »
Platform 3 and the buildings are heritage listed AFAIAA.

Redevelopment generally would be nice.  The key is CRR, redevelopment of Roma St is part of that.  If they can leverage private equity that would be good.  Existing residents in the area will need to be considered and possibly offers made to buy them out if they don't wish to remain. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 01:35:15 PM by ozbob »
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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2016, 02:30:10 PM »
7 News --> Qld govt won't fund $2b arena and precinct

Quote
Queensland's deputy premier has welcomed a $2 billion proposal for a 17,000-seat arena and entertainment precinct in Brisbane's CBD, but has made it clear the state government won't help fund it.

In fact, Jackie Trad says the government would be hoping the Brisbane Live precinct, proposed for the Roma Street rail yards, would help pay for the government's priority infrastructure project - Cross River Rail.

Brisbane-based company AEG Ogden will approach the state government this week to pitch the idea.

It includes a 17,000-seat arena, cinemas and restaurants and would be built above a station for the yet-to-be-approved Cross River Rail project, which will see a second river rail crossing built in Brisbane.

Ms Trad said the urban renewal project, which would "give so much back to the community", was "something to get excited about".

"It would be great to have a live venue in the heart of the city, as opposed to in the outer suburbs," Ms Trad said on Sunday.

The city's ageing entertainment centre, which hosts international music acts that come to Brisbane, is located about 20km from the CBD.

However, Ms Trad said it would be AEG Ogden's responsibility to fund the new arena and surrounding precinct and compensate the government for building the project on public land.

"A market-led proposal is based on the premise that the proponent - the person who puts in the project - funds it," she said.

"If government land is required in the development of the project, we will be seeking a return, particularly in order to fund Cross River Rail."

Ms Trad said there was "lots of negotiation and consideration" to take place before the project could go ahead.

Meanwhile, the business case for the $5.2 billion Cross River Rail is expected to be released next month.

The project is expected to be a key issue for Queensland during the federal election campaign, with Opposition Leader Bill Shorten already pledging to help fund it.

 :fx
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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2016, 02:40:44 PM »
Brisbanetimes -->  Proposed $2 billion precinct could revitalise under-utilised part of Brisbane CBD
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2016, 05:29:09 PM »
Quote
Mr Lister said there were options the company, with the government's support, could investigate, which included the potential for investment from superannuation funds.

"As with all social infrastructure, like Suncorp Stadium, none of them are able to, from the ticket buying public, service the total construction cost," he said.

It is now "social infrastructure" (read: "social" means gov cash injection required).

Quote
"Whilst we are able to deliver operating surpluses at Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane Convention and Exhibition Centre and the Brisbane Entertainment Centre every year, but still, none come close to delivering this from scratch."

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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2016, 08:36:50 PM »
The BrizCommuter word on the "Brisbane Live" development plans.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/roma-street-to-be-buried-underground.html

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 03:12:28 AM »
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 29 minutes ago Brisbane, Queensland

BrizCommuter: ' Roma Street to be buried underground? '

> http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/roma-street-to-be-buried-underground.html … #qldpol

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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2016, 03:18:09 AM »
Couriermail --> Uni campus could be included in masterplan for new precinct over Roma St railyards
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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2016, 07:48:19 AM »
This entire thread is a script to a utopia episode.   


Offline Derwan

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2016, 09:21:39 AM »
When you think about it, the Roma St precinct is the perfect location for a venue like this.
  • It's got both bus and rail.
  • The train station has a number of redundant platforms that can be utilised during special events to expedite departures and reduce crowding.
  • The train station services every train line - which won't change once CRR is built.  (In fact, Roma St will be the ONLY station that services all train lines post CRR.)
  • It is also the destination for long-distance trains and buses.

I agree that the station building and its facilities desperately need a makeover.  If the whole area could be revitalised and funds put towards CRR without costing taxpayers, I'd be all for it.

Whether it can/will happen remains to be seen.
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Offline James

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2016, 09:57:42 AM »
Well hang on a tic, Roma Street station badly does need to be redone as it's a complete eyesore at the moment, so any redevelopment proposal I have no problems with, there might even be a chance that the developers want to chip in with Cross River Rail as well reducing the financial input that the State (and hopefully the Federal) Governments put in.

I'd be putting it this way - does Rail: Back On Track support the redevelopment of Roma Street Station and get rid of that 1980s eyesore that is Roma Street Transit Centre?  If yes, then how best to advocate for that to encourage both the private company involved and the Government to get it right and more importantly get it built?   Be constructive, you all sound jaded and defeated, it's very depressing - and living in Brisbane is depressing enough.

Maybe I am just cynical, but erecting giant odes to concrete is not going to be the silver bullet which makes Brisbane's culture 'world class'. To me it is akin to the ice rink they erect in King George Square every "winter", or all the clutter they have in South Bank Parklands. Culture is something you foster, encourage, grow within a community. Some of the most vibrant cities emerge from simply letting humans redevelop old spaces. Instead, the government is going around knocking down old buildings and putting up high-rises (Boundary St Markets, anyone?), putting in place laws which harm entertainment industries and being try-hards by pouring money into the Arts and expecting that magical things will happen henceforth. Who says the new precinct isn't going to get ruined by NIMBYs like Suncorp or Riverstage?

The Roma St Transit Centre is most certainly in need of a refresh, and the station itself could too. But I definitely don't see the railway line as "a scar on the landscape" and it is really important that any project is 100% private-sector funded and 100% compatible with CRR.

Personally I'd much rather see the site down at Kurilpa. Would rather keep all the Arts etc. in the one precinct, even if it is not necessarily ideally located.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline Gazza

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2016, 10:28:29 AM »
Re co-locating wity arts, I'm not sure this is of the same ilk.
I imagine this sort of entertainment center would have your One Direction concerts and Wrestling matches, at night, as compared to Goma,  QAG, state library etc which mostly operate in the day, are finer arts, and don't have the transport crowd surge requirements that a entertainment center with over 10,000 seats has.

I agree that culture needs to grow organically in a city, and that having an entertainment center doesn't make a city....but that's not a reason to oppose this, especially since that location is low impact.

Offline nathandavid88

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2016, 01:53:36 PM »
Re co-locating wity arts, I'm not sure this is of the same ilk.
I imagine this sort of entertainment center would have your One Direction concerts and Wrestling matches, at night, as compared to Goma,  QAG, state library etc which mostly operate in the day, are finer arts, and don't have the transport crowd surge requirements that a entertainment center with over 10,000 seats has.

Correct, this is essentially a much better located, modern replacement for the rather tired Brisbane Entertainment Centre out at Boondall.

Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2016, 02:32:38 AM »
This entire thread is a script to a utopia episode.

Yep, you have nailed it.



I don't think anyone is against this sort of thing in essence, it is just we know from past efforts and nice animations with crappy music,  that a healthy dose of skepticism is well placed here in BrisBANE and Queensland generally ... lol

Until CRR is sorted I don't expect ' much progress ' ...
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2016, 02:54:49 AM »
Queensland Government Animations. Collect them all!

Special Edition: Cross River Rail!  :pfy:

Cross River Rail 1





BaT




Cross River Rail 2  3




Cross River Rail! The state's - HIGHEST PRIORITY - project!*

* subject to Townsville Stadium being funded first.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 03:21:23 AM by ozbob »
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Online ozbob

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2016, 03:20:48 AM »
The last one is accepted as being Cross River Rail # 3 LD ...

#2 being the half baked LNP CRR iteration prior to the glorious BaT  (All stand and act reverently ... ) 



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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2016, 05:13:58 AM »
I love the term "planning porno" !  :clp:  You've gotta hand it to the Sunday Mail: "The last thing Queensland needs is Treasury boffins and departmental bureaucrats to get in the way."  Yep, don't let reality and common sense get in the way of the latest fantasy dream.  Clearly, the developers believe they are doing Brisbane a favour and would expect to be handed the 'free air' above Roma Street for absolutely nothing.

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Re: Proposal to transform Roma Street rail yards
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 02:35:54 AM »
Couriermail --> Nearly 280,000 log on to website with new Brisbane stadium plans
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