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Offline #Metro

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Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« on: February 17, 2016, 07:32:02 AM »
Qld will need 700,000 homes for 1.4 million people in 15 years

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/act-news/qld-will-need-700000-homes-for-14-million-people-in-15-years-20160216-gmvsoc.html

Quote
High priority projects - must start within five years
Ipswich Motorway – Rocklea to Darra section.
Pacific Motorway M1 – Mudgeeraba to Varsity Lakes.
Cross River Rail - extra rail line across the Brisbane River because existing rail bridge gets congested from 2016.
Freight rail access to the Port of Brisbane.

Priority projects – must start within 10 years
Gold Coast light rail stage two.
Gateway Motorway/Pacific Motorway merge upgrade project.
Bruce Highway progressive highway upgrades.
Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade – widening the single rail section.
Gladstone Port land access improvements.
Mt Isa to Townsville new rail line.
Lower Fitzroy River water infrastructure - raising the Eden Bann Weir on the Fitzroy River.
Upgrading 4.7 km of the Cunningham Highway from Yamanto to Ebenezer west of Ipswich.

Interesting alternative to the Ipswich motorway upgrade (seems to be in never ending upgrade mode, just like the Pacific Motorway) is to put an express pattern on the Ipswich rail line. Trains would run express from the Brisbane CBD to Darra, then stop all stations to Ipswich. That would knock a good 10 mins off the travel time.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 07:34:28 AM »
Brisbanetimes --> 1.4 million people heading for SEQ: Infrastructure Australia

Quote
South-east Queensland must find 700,000 homes for an extra 1.4 million people within 15 years, Australia's pre-eminent infrastructure body says.

On Wednesday, Infrastructure Australia said if no key infrastructure projects were built in the south-east, the cost of waiting in traffic for commuters, small, medium and large businesses will escalate from $1.9 billion in 2011 to $9.2 billion by 2031.

Queensland's population will grow to 6.4 million and south-east Queensland's population will grow by 1.4 million in 15 years.

That is the blunt warning to Australian governments and industry organisations from Infrastructure Australia as it begins a major campaign to persuade governments they must commit to big infrastructure projects.

In addition, Engineers Australia Queensland infrastructure spokesman Chris Warnock, who in 1993 warned a second rail crossing of Brisbane River was needed by 2015, said successive Queensland state governments had been "missing in action" over infrastructure for the past "10 to 15 years".

"It doesn't matter who the government is," Mr Warnock said.

"The emergence of a lot of major investment by Brisbane City Council in infrastructure (Clem7 tunnel, Go Between Bridge, Airport Link and Legacy Way tunnel) I would suggest is a direct consequence of the missing-in-action of the state governments," he said.

On Wednesday, Infrastructure Australia identified "solutions" to Queensland's share of the national problems of congestion, population growth and transport infrastructure.

The report supports "higher" density - seven to eight storeys - along transport routes, not high density at all costs and notes it is cheaper to bring water, transport and electricity to inner-city units ($26,500 per unit) than to a outer-Brisbane block ($69,000).

Infrastructure Australia chief executive Philip Davies hailed the research as "groundbreaking", based on the project research as it was in 2015, new modelling and new congestion costs.

Mr Davies said the report recognised Australian capital cities need to look at 21st-century solutions.

"Australia's largest cities should start planning for integrated, timetable-free, 'turn up and go' train and bus services – similar to that of New York, Singapore, London and Paris," the report says.

"What we are going to release is a range of 'solutions', that is the physical future projects, but also reforms in how we do things and how we do things using the markets," Mr Davies said.

Mr Davies said south-east Queensland would take the lion's share of the population increase.

"And the consequence of that as 'a worst-case scenario' over the next 15 years is that the cost of congestion is going to increase from what we measured in 2011 as $1.9 billion a year to $9.2 billion in 2031."

High priority projects - must start within five years

    Ipswich Motorway – Rocklea to Darra section.
    Pacific Motorway M1 – Mudgeeraba to Varsity Lakes.
    Cross River Rail - extra rail line across the Brisbane River because existing rail bridge gets congested from 2016.
    Freight rail access to the Port of Brisbane.

Priority projects – must start within 10 years

    Gold Coast light rail stage two.
    Gateway Motorway/Pacific Motorway merge upgrade project.
    Bruce Highway progressive highway upgrades.
    Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade – widening the single rail section.
    Gladstone Port land access improvements.
    Mt Isa to Townsville new rail line.
    Lower Fitzroy River water infrastructure - raising the Eden Bann Weir on the Fitzroy River.
    Upgrading 4.7 km of the Cunningham Highway from Yamanto to Ebenezer west of Ipswich.

Chris Warnock welcomed the report identifying the federal government must have a "a more active role" in the "governance of cities".

"That is fantastic. That is a huge shift under Malcolm Turnbull, because under Tony Abbott and under John Howard before him, it just did not exist," he said.

However Brisbane's key project, the Cross River Rail has slipped from a High Priority "Project" to a High Priority "Initiative" because the federal government was still waiting on the new business case from the Palaszczuk government.

Mr Warnock said the slide in Cross River Rail's priority was simply a tragedy of poor planning.

"By 2011 Cross River Rail was the highest national priority project on Infrastructure Australia's list," Mr Warnock said.

"And we are now having this discussion in February 2016, and it is now only a high-priority initiative and the federal government is still waiting for a business case to be submitted by the Queensland Government."

"So you can see my frustration."

Sydney and Melbourne now also have similar underground "metro rail" projects to Brisbane, the Infrastructure Australia list shows.


Quote
... Mr Warnock said the slide in Cross River Rail's priority was simply a tragedy of poor planning.

"By 2011 Cross River Rail was the highest national priority project on Infrastructure Australia's list," Mr Warnock said.

"And we are now having this discussion in February 2016, and it is now only a high-priority initiative and the federal government is still waiting for a business case to be submitted by the Queensland Government."

"So you can see my frustration." ...

 :fp: :fp: :fp:
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 07:37:59 AM »
The great thing about bus reform is that it doesn't have to deal with Federal Funding claptrap.  :bg:  :fo:

Perhaps this is why politicians are not behind it? It would expose them as actually having to do something, and take away all their

usual excuses of (a) we don't have the funding (b) we must convince the prime minister to fund it first or (c) it must go into a study

to be analysed by 10 different bureaucracies and 50 different reports into it...
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 07:39:43 AM »
There is an express service in the peaks, which is when most people use the line and motorway congestion occurs.

However, the current 18 minute pre-pm peak, and 12 minute pm peak frequency is rather rubbish and needs to be improved whenever there are enough trains (which there isn't).

Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2016, 07:46:17 AM »
LOL  IA costs millions and millions of $$$ to establish the obvious  ..

Sent to all outlets:

11th February 2016

More evidence of public transport network failure in SEQ

Good Morning,

Interesting summary chart.  It shows heavy rail passenger journeys over a century for Melbourne and Sydney annually.  Brisbane has around 50 million heavy rail passengers annually at present.




Source: https://twitter.com/TRaw_SGS/status/697240455512076288

By those trends, Brisbane should have been over 100 million by now.  In Sydney and Melbourne the heavy rail network is used much more efficiently.  Instead of running buses in competition and parallel to heavy rail the various modes are optimised for their true utility.  In SEQ an absurd fare structure, poor frequency and poor connections is now seen as relative poor patronage, and much worsening congestion in and around Brisbane.

Not rocket science is it?   We need proper bus network reform.  We have shown how that can be achieved [ http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11047.0 ]

What is the hot topic in Brisbane City Council elections?  Grandiose ' gold ' infrastructure and free fares!  What a joke transport in Brisbane has become under a succession of mediocre State Governments and even more mediocre Councils.

Carry on ...

Best wishes
Robert

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Reference:

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/inner-city-rail-capacity-study-where.html

How can Brisbane's transport meltdown be resolved?

    There needs to be bi-partisan support for Cross River Rail by both sides of Queensland politics in State Government and Brisbane City Council level. Rather than thinking about themselves, politicians need to think about Queenslanders.
    Funding needs to be prioritised for rail over poor value for money road and busway projects. Remember, just one 60% full train can take around 500 cars off the road, that is 15 minutes worth of one traffic lane! 
    The urban sprawl needs to be restricted, or at least be concentrated around existing transport corridors.

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 07:50:32 AM »
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now Brisbane, Queensland

IA slams mediocre QLD Govts, errr what have we been saying?

> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12015.msg169207#msg169207 … #qldpol

Hang your heads in shame @QLDLabor @LNPQLD
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 08:16:40 AM »
Couriermail --> Departure of Warren Truss clears the way for funding to build second train route in Brisbane

Quote
HOPES are rising that Brisbane’s desperately needed Cross River Rail project may soon get the green light.

Infrastructure Australia is this month expected to unveil its list of national priorities.

And sources suggest this week’s retirement announcement by deputy prime minister Warren Truss will remove a major obstacle to Federal Government support for the $5 billion project.

The former Infrastructure Minister was a strong supporter of ex-prime minister Tony Abbott’s insistence that states should be solely responsible for public transport infrastructure.

The Cross River Rail initiative to provide a second train route through central Brisbane – including a tunnel under the river and several underground stations – was number one on the last Infrastructure Australia list in 2013.

But the proposal was dumped by the Newman government in favour of the so-called BaT (bus and train tunnel) scheme.

The incoming Palaszczuk Government reinstated Cross River Rail as top priority.

Queensland Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe told The Sunday Mail yesterday that it took a change of prime minister to secure Commonwealth funding for stage two of Gold Coast Light Rail.

“I hope a change in the ministry will signal the Turnbull Government are on board with Cross River Rail,” he said.

Transport minister Stirling Hinchliffe hopes to have the Turnbull Government on board with the Cross River Rail. Picture: Tara Croser

Public transport advocates have called on Brisbane’s leading two mayoral candidates to commit funding to help ensure Cross River Rail goes ahead.

RAIL Back on Track lobby group spokesman Robert Dow said Lord Mayor Graham Quirk and ALP mayoral hopeful Rod Harding had lost the plot with expensive headline-grabbing proposals for unnecessary light rail or rubber-tyred subway Metro systems.

“We need to focus on the main game, which is the rail system,’’ he said.

Cross River Rail is already nearly a decade behind schedule, having been the key recommendation of the Inner City Rail Capacity Study commissioned by the Bligh Government in 2008 to set priorities to 2016.


Not rocket science is it?
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2016, 08:20:18 AM »
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now Brisbane, Queensland

Infrastructure Australia: Queensland

>> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12015.msg169211#msg169211 … #qldpol #auspol Mediocre Govts slammed ..

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 08:26:54 AM »
Quote
There is an express service in the peaks, which is when most people use the line and motorway congestion occurs.

However, the current 18 minute pre-pm peak, and 12 minute pm peak frequency is rather rubbish and needs to be improved whenever there are enough trains (which there isn't).

It is true that there are express services in peak, but that implies express services are only worth running in peak to relieve motorway congestion.

I think services on the Ipswich line should run express simply for good service reasons. To be competitive with cars, services need good speed to cover longer distances.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2016, 08:28:05 AM »
Express pattern all times on the Ippy is a no-brainer.  Will occur when Springfield Central goes to 15 minutes.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 08:31:40 AM »
We have had a succession of incompetent State Governments.

Is the present one any different? 

We can but hope ... hope is eternal ...

Hope doesn't get results.  Action will.  Time to act or stand aside!

Game on ...


 
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 08:38:06 AM »

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/act-news/qld-will-need-700000-homes-for-14-million-people-in-15-years-20160216-gmvsoc.html

Quote
High priority projects - must start within five years
Ipswich Motorway – Rocklea to Darra section.
Pacific Motorway M1 – Mudgeeraba to Varsity Lakes.
Cross River Rail - extra rail line across the Brisbane River because existing rail bridge gets congested from 2016.
Freight rail access to the Port of Brisbane.

Priority projects – must start within 10 years
Gold Coast light rail stage two.
Gateway Motorway/Pacific Motorway merge upgrade project.
Bruce Highway progressive highway upgrades.
Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade – widening the single rail section.
Gladstone Port land access improvements.
Mt Isa to Townsville new rail line.
Lower Fitzroy River water infrastructure - raising the Eden Bann Weir on the Fitzroy River.
Upgrading 4.7 km of the Cunningham Highway from Yamanto to Ebenezer west of Ipswich.



I consider that the Beerburrum to Landsborough North rail upgrade is a high priority project.
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Offline Jonno

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 09:16:29 AM »
IA clearly does not understand Induced Ddmand yet!!! Soooo last Century!!

Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 09:30:27 AM »
Australian Infrastructure Plan

>> http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/Australian-Infrastructure-Plan.aspx
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2016, 09:38:47 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

17th February 2016

Infrastructure Australia confirms what we know ... fancy that!

Greetings,

RAIL Back On Track welcomes the Infrastructure Australia (IA) Plan.

With respect to Queensland, it confirms that Cross River Rail, and the upgrade of the Sunshine Coast Line are key projects.  A point we have made constantly for years.

It is concerning that IA is still waiting for a business case for CRR and for the Sunshine Coast Line upgrade.

The IA plan is a sad indictment on under performing Governments.   It is time now for action, not more plans and delays.

Best wishes
Robert

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References:

1. Australian Infrastructure Plan

>> http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/Australian-Infrastructure-Plan.aspx

2.  Infrastructure Australia: Queensland

>> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12015.0
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 09:46:56 AM »
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 3 minutes ago Brisbane, Queensland

Latest: Infrastructure Australia confirms what we know ... fancy that!
> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12015.msg169221#msg169221 … #qldpol #auspol

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 10:12:32 AM »
Couriermail --> Infrastructure Australia lists Brisbane’s Cross River Rail project as ‘high priority’
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2016, 04:20:07 PM »
Nothing yet from the Queensland Government on this latest IA plan.

I guess they are still spinning the tops ..



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Offline kram0

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2016, 04:24:10 PM »
Nothing yet from the Queensland Government on this latest IA plan.

I guess they are still spinning the tops ..



Do we expect anything else from this useless government? We can only hope!!

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2016, 05:34:09 PM »
The line I keep hearing from the Queensland Government is:

"(Insert name of project) is one of the highest priority projects that the state governments wants the federal government to fund."

It is the grab-all master-stroke all encompassing universal answer to everything.  It would appear, Ozbob, that there is nothing more to say.

In Queensland, everything is a priority and it is up to the federal government to pay for it!  Simple.

In the next few days, expect some vacuous talking head from government to stand before a media scrum and say: "We are disappointed that IA did not rank Queensland projects higher."

Of course, it won't dawn on them that the reason why other states have managed to get their projects higher up the ladder is through more complete planning and full business case analysis, which IA demands for all projects before approval.  When it comes to CRR, for instance, Queensland has had several goes at the homework, but there isn't any business case for the latest project.  And, just what is the latest project?   :fp:
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 05:49:32 PM by Stillwater »

Offline Jonno

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2016, 05:38:48 PM »
So how many more cycles of ALP and LNP do we need to realise they are both lost in a 21st century world!!!

Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2016, 05:56:26 PM »
Most here seem to understand that we are facing a major transport crisis in the years to come. 

Sydney has started to face up to reality.  Melbourne is sort of coming around.  Brisbane, a rubber tyre metro that guts the bus network is what is needed???  Honestly, we are lead by raving nutcases ...

Brisbane has a good system of busways.  They are not really being used optimally but that is no excuse to wreck that network.  What is needed is bus network reform and some improvements such as upgrading Victoria Bridge as a green bridge and fixing up the Cultural Centre Station essentially.  Brisbane of all our capitals, by far, has a truly unique setup with its busways.  We need to optimise that and improve it for now simply by network reform, both spatially, logically and strategically (eg. trunk and feeder).  Light rail is not needed.

It really worries me that Team Quirk and their advisers are prepared to gut the bus network for politics.   They are not worthy IMHO.

Rail is going to give the real grunt from here.  CRR is needed, but who has faith in the present political establishment to deliver it?

Rubber tyred metro reminds me of a song ...  :P






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Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2016, 06:12:39 PM »
Its great to see Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade - widening the single rail section (whatever that means) on the priority list..

Someone needs to send Infrastructure Australia the North Coast Line Capacity Improvement Study Version 2 by Ranbury dated 23/02/2015 and the South East Queensland Capacity Improvement Study.


A quote from the report if I may:
There is NO, DO NOTHING OPTION (their capitals, not mine) if rail is to have a future in this (NCL) corridor.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2016, 06:21:00 PM »
Rather cute hey ' widening ' ...  it means amplification.

 :hc :hc :hc
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2016, 06:21:38 PM »
The only way to move forward would be to give control of PT and Roads to the Federal Government Nationwide.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2016, 06:43:30 PM »
Network Ten News --> In the fast lane

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2016, 07:40:41 PM »
Bus reforms will unclog the busways in the short and medium term.
Longer term, the most efficient setup is to have rail (metro) taking passengers to the CBD via the SE busway alignment (broadly), and buses feeding it. Like in Perth and Toronto.

The current Quirk alignment running metro over the Victoria Bridge is not ideal.

However, I am not opposed to upgrading the busway to metro, rubber tyre or steel wheel. Copenhagen (Denmark) and Vancouver (Canada) have systems that might be suitable, are driverless and operate with steel wheel. Ottawa, Canada is doing something similar with core busway replacement by rail. I am not opposed to a combined tunnel from the CBD to Woolloongabba with CRR. International precedent exists for this also.

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2016, 08:00:44 PM »
A metro combined with CRR would not disrupt the SE Busway, at least in the initial stages. It could be built within the CRR tunnel from Roma Street to Wooloongabba via CRR. When opened some buses could be diverted into Wooloongabba CRR/Metro to interchange, and also Park Road CRR. This would allow the metro track to be built all the way to Buranda.
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2016, 08:09:21 PM »
Yeah all the Tv Stations reported a mass transit Metro for BNE, MEL and SYD. I guess SYD have started their's

Offline Derwan

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2016, 08:19:46 PM »
Explain to me again why the LNP canned CRR when it was "shovel ready" - in favour of the bat-brained idea of a combined bus and train tunnel?  Then sold the properties resumed in preparation of CRR?  That government put us about 10 years behind (when you consider their own delays and now the added delays).

Metro/Light Rail on the SE Busway would be good - with bus interchanges at the current stations.  No - Metro/Light Rail wouldn't be appropriate in the CRR tunnel for the same reasons as BaT.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2016, 08:24:50 PM »
The metro was a beat up on TV news. CRR is what is needed as per IA . A metro for Brisbane is 20 years away.

A metro will be a proper networked system as per TMR broad plans. Quirk's metro is nonsense.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2016, 08:41:32 PM »
Quote
No - Metro/Light Rail wouldn't be appropriate in the CRR tunnel for the same reasons as BaT.

A driverless metro fed by bus services is efficient. Vancouver Skytrain and Copenhagen is closest to this (both run in tunnels in the CBD core). Both are driverless. Both use platforms and curves similar to our busway, though they use steel wheels.

I do not see any technical grounds for why the CRR tunnel and metro cannot be combined.

The bus component would not save labour costs but would probably require modest increased CRR tunnel construction costs. This is not the case with a driverless metro. There would be very significant labour cost savings. It would also not require a bus passing lane to be constructed within the tunnel, another point of difference between having buses in the tunnel and metro trains.

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Offline Jonno

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2016, 09:53:25 PM »
Network Ten News --> In the fast lane



Congestion will only hit the levels predicted if we try to avoid the targeted congestion by building more roads!!!!  Oh the Irony!!!!!  Congestion had nothing tondo with growth and a while lot to do with Induced Demand!!

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2016, 10:07:19 PM »
Derwan, I think the LNP didn't have their portion of the money to stump up.  They wanted the private sector to pay Queensland's share, with the majority of funding coming from the feds.  Federal Labor stumped up some money, Scott Emerson thought he would get a better deal from Conservatives in power in Canberra, but along came anti public transport Tony Abbot.  All we are seeing is lots of reports (and some make depressing reading) because there is a cat and mouse game going on here.  Neither state or feds have much money.  They are both window-shopping for stuff we want and they can't afford.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2016, 03:34:27 AM »
Sydney Morning Herald --> New infrastructure plan is political pie in the sky



Sad but true ...   :fp:


« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 03:43:01 AM by ozbob »
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Infrastructure Australia: Queensland
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2016, 09:55:18 AM »
Good article.  Good examination of the problem.  The cost of major infrastructure is climbing and the ability of governments hooked on 'cost cutting' is limiting the desire to pay.  But we will pay in the end through congestion.  Maybe Brisbane could be the place for a congestion tax, with money raised going to PT, not roads.

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan