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Author Topic: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan  (Read 64523 times)

Offline Stillwater

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LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« on: January 30, 2016, 11:31:52 PM »
Lord Mayor Quirk, surprise surprise, has come up with a $1.5 billion (with a 'b') metro/subway plan for Brisbane, just over a month out from the council elections.  Is anyone going to see this as anything other than a cynical vote-getting exercise?  Why not fix the bus mess instead? Save $1.5 billion.

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 11:45:08 PM »

This would work. It would force bus network reorganisation in the core of the CBD. Can be taken with bus reform also.

It looks a lot like my own proposal a long time ago. Did the mayor rip it off from the RBOT website? LOL

North-South Subway
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6950.0
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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 11:47:43 PM »

From the archives (2011):

The SE Busway pushes the lower bound of metro systems in peak, simply upgrading it to LRT would not actually increase capacity. It needs to go to something higher than that.

Bus reform still needs to proceed regardless. This could take 10 years to construct and get all the funding partners aligned.

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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 11:50:51 PM »

Rubber tyre metro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro

Vancouver SkyTrain
http://www.translink.ca/en/Schedules-and-Maps/SkyTrain.aspx

The important thing is that the service be AUTOMATED. NO DRIVER!
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 01:48:08 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

31st January 2016

2016 BCC Public Transport SHOWDOWN: Lord Mayor announces Brisbane ' Metro '

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers welcomes Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s announcement for a ' metro ' in Brisbane, and plans to convert Victoria Bridge to a ' green ' bridge.

This is a sudden and radical change in public transport policy by the Lord Mayor Graham Quirk.

Public transport is front and centre for the 2016 Brisbane City Council Elections. It has come about because the bus network is breaking down, and there are 11 000+ apartments in various stages of planning or construction in Brisbane at the moment which will put even more pressure on the failing bus network.

First and foremost, all candidates must realise that the bus network is broken and needs reform. As we have shown this can be done within two years, introducing 12 new hi frequency bus routes around Brisbane at virtually neutral cost. Our proposal is here at http://tiny.cc/newnetwork and features a high frequency route 230 Bulimba and route 400 Centenary services.

Bus reform will have to be carried out anyway even if a metro is built, as it is not possible for buses and trains to share the same corridor into the CBD.

During the morning peak hour, the SE Busway carries around 12 000 passengers/direction/hour. Simply converting the busway to Light Rail would not increase capacity. A larger capacity mode, such as metro is required.

An important thing is that the metro should be fully automatic and not require any drivers from day one. This means services can be frequent, well into the night.

Cities with similar subway systems include Vancouver’s Skytrain, the Copenhagen metro (driverless), the Paris Metro,and the Montreal Metro in Canada.

RAIL Back on Track welcomes the announcement, and looks forward to further policies by candidates, in particular, a full and comprehensive bus reform plan for Brisbane, similar to what we have outlined in our New Bus Network Proposal for Brisbane.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Brisbane transport: Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s $1.54b “Brisbane Metro” plan
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-transport-lord-mayor-graham-quirk-154b-brisbane-metro-plan/news-story/db38fe6f9fe05fcb7463c196e97a82f1#load-story-comments
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2016, 01:59:55 AM »
Couriermail --> Brisbane transport: Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s $1.54b “Brisbane Metro” plan

Quote
BRISBANE would be home to a first-of-its kind subway system in a $1.54 billion shake-up of public transport, under Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s first major election commitment.

Under the plan, the new “Brisbane Metro” system would run high-speed, high-frequency services in an underground system through the CBD between Woolloongabba and Herston.

The Queensland capital would be the first Australian city to use the rubber-tyred metro rail system, already used in international cities such as Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Montreal and Miami.

It would see major changes to the way the bus system works in Brisbane, as well as turn Victoria Bridge into a green bridge with cars banned from using it.

Passengers taking public transport from the suburbs into the CBD would catch a bus to Woolloongabba or Herston before changing services to the high-frequency Brisbane Metro.

It is a bid to fix the busway bottleneck at the Cultural Centre station, which has a bus passing through every 15 seconds at peak times, while freeing up buses for more services in the suburbs.

More > http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-transport-lord-mayor-graham-quirk-154b-brisbane-metro-plan/news-story/db38fe6f9fe05fcb7463c196e97a82f1#load-story-comments


http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/cf5e1390ad4b8b54dc93e1a24641771d?width=650

« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 02:06:52 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2016, 02:04:32 AM »
Team Quirk has really admitted here that the bus network is broken.

Took a while ...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2016, 02:15:59 AM »
Long standing Brisbane Metro discussion thread > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10002.0
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Offline James

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 02:30:23 AM »
This is better than the light rail proposal, but barely. The smarter proposal would be to extend the metro north and south along the SE/Northern busway, and put it in a tunnel between Normanby and Buranda, leaving the inner section for UQ Lakes/Eastern/Western services.

+1 for the idea, -2 for the proposed execution. I can already see issues with a metro train running at surface level - not true Class A ROW for starters.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2016, 03:36:18 AM »
The BCC ' Metro ' concept is rolled out every election cycle.  Will it ever be built?  Probably not, LM has said contingent on state and federal funding.  Due diligence will sink it.

However, converting Victoria Bridge to a green bridge and stopping the traffic in North Quay together with bus network reform will probably be what happens in the end.

A real metro needs to be in its exclusive ROW and automated.  The plan by Quirk is nonsense.  It could be fixed but hey this Brisbane ...

Also this doesn't really fit in with the long range metro plans by TMR >> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10002.msg167294#msg167294

« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 04:55:44 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2016, 06:57:03 AM »
The Team Quirk metro concept is brought to you by the same team that thought the infamous ' Cleveland Light Rail Solution ' including elevated light rail in the Brisbane river was a smashing concept too ...

 :fp:
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 07:34:30 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2016, 07:47:05 AM »
It is a marvellous irony that Team Quirk, so tightly wedded to the direct service model, and didn't want transfers is now planning to roll out forced transfers for large numbers of bus passengers!!

Onwards!

We flagged a ' rubber-tyred metro ' in this release > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10955.0
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 08:12:16 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2016, 08:09:59 AM »


I luv elections!!   :P :o
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2016, 08:26:33 AM »
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 10m

It is good that @Team_Quirk has finally had the conversion to trunk & feeder network hey?

> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg167830#msg167830 … #qldpol
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2016, 08:48:37 AM »
Twitter

Ash Parajuli ‏@ArcVandelay 2m

Ash Parajuli Retweeted The Courier-Mail

Stupid proposal. Shifting the congestion from Cultural Centre to the Gabba and Herston stations. @Robert_Dow

==============

Twitter

Ash Parajuli ‏@ArcVandelay 1m

.@Robert_Dow interchange/feeder buses should be done across the entire busway network, not 1 stop for all Southside buses & 1 northern stop

==============

^

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 1m

. @ArcVandelay Indeed. Bus network reform will deliver for negligible cost.
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Offline Old Northern Road

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2016, 08:50:36 AM »
At least it is not a bus tunnel which suggest to me that they realise that really expensive bus infrastructure isn't popular amongst voters. It probably took someone about 15mins to come up with this but at least they are on the right track.

Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2016, 08:55:13 AM »
Yes, the bus tunnel plans seem abandoned now.  Good!
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Online verbatim9

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2016, 09:04:44 AM »
Metro system will be good for Brisbane. And the Victoria Bridge being turned into a fully fledged Green Bridge. 👍 I like Montreal's Rubber tyre Metro system been on that.

Still be good to investigated a Metro line Cutural Centre West End Uq Indoorpooilly
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 09:22:43 AM by verbatim9 »

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 09:26:01 AM »

Support Brisbane Underground Metro  :-r


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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 09:28:55 AM »

RBWH will have to be modified extensively to permit buses to layover and passengers to interchange. it is a constrained site.
Much easier at Wooloongabba.

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Online verbatim9

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2016, 09:35:53 AM »

Support Brisbane Underground Metro  :-r
I support an underground system for sure! "This first stage budgeted at 1.5 Billion." A decent Network built in stages will be 20 Billion with Driverless Technology similar to Sydney's. Didnt like the Black and Grey. Red or Blue is a cool colour, you can build it colour coded for different lines. 🚈

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2016, 09:48:57 AM »
The BUM is going to be WORLD CLARSE!!
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2016, 09:52:49 AM »
Brisbane will need a proper metro system eventually.  $1.5Billion is a bit under I reckon.

The next step though is bus network reform now!!   Metro is years and years away ...

LM Quirk has seen the light!!   :P

97.3FM has followed up with an interview for news.
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Offline bcasey

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2016, 10:39:30 AM »
So let me get this straight, they are basically just going use the current busway network from Herston to Wooloongabba to run a different mode, requiring people to transfer where before they didn't have to? Sure, it might be a bit faster, and it will force some bus reform to be done in the process, so its not entirely bad, but I think they could do so much better with a proper metro (maybe even start a metro network). Admittedly, this is probably a better idea than the ALP's light rail plan.

A proper underground metro could be designed much more direct rather than taking the circuitous route that the Inner Northern Busway takes. Please indulge me in a bit of foam for this. My idea (probably not an original one by any means) would be to start a metro network with 3 lines. I'm not a geologist or tunnel engineer, so I don't know how feasible this is from a structural perspective.

The first line would go from St Lucia, head under the river to stop at West End and South Bank, then head under the river again to stop at Queen Street, continue on to a stop in the Valley, and head north towards Newstead, with possible extensions either towards Ascot/Hendra and maybe eventually the Airport, or bend around and head under the river again towards Bulimba. It could also extend further west from St Lucia towards Indooroopilly.

The second line would take a similar alignment to CRR, going from QUT Kelvin Grove, stop under Roma Street Station, then under Queen Street, stop near the botanical gardens/QUT Gardens Point, then head under the river to stop near the Gabba. It could extend further west towards Ashgrove, then head north west towards Enoggera/Mitchelton, and extend further south from the Gabba towards Griffith University/Garden City.

The third line would go from the RBWH, stop in the Valley to allow connections with the first line, then stop in New Farm. It could then tunnel under the river and head either towards Norman Park/Camp Hill, or bend around a bit and head towards Morningside, with future extensions further south-east or east. The north end could then extend further north, eventually stopping at Chermside shopping centre.

Obviously my idea is very blue-sky and would be very expensive, but if you were to build a proper metro network, you shouldn't just copy what the busway network is already doing. You should plan out more direct alignments.

In any case, I don't see Quirk's metro plan being built unless he is able to provide a significant amount of the funding from the BCC's coffers, otherwise the State and Federal governments will most likely not help fund it.

Bus Network Reform is cost neutral, both the ALP and LNP need to come to their senses already.

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2016, 10:41:43 AM »
Quote
Brisbane will need a proper metro system eventually.  $1.5Billion is a bit under I reckon.

The next step though is bus network reform now!!   Metro is years and years away ...

LM Quirk has seen the light!!   :P

97.3FM has followed up with an interview for news.

Can you refer to it as Brisbane Underground Metro? Just want to see if anyone publishes BUM inadvertently ;)
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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2016, 10:43:42 AM »
Quote
A proper underground metro could be designed much more direct rather than taking the circuitous route that the Inner Northern Busway takes. Please indulge me in a bit of foam for this.

I guess Red Team will be coming up with Monorails next! Watch this space!!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2016, 10:48:47 AM »
bcasey, could you draw and post a map of the network you propose?

Quote
Obviously my idea is very blue-sky and would be very expensive, but if you were to build a proper metro network, you shouldn't just copy what the busway network is already doing. You should plan out more direct alignments.

The SE Busway is ripe for conversion. In peak, it pushes the lower bound of metro systems, and converting it to Light Rail would not increase capacity significantly. (300 pax tram x 30 trams/hour = 9000 pphd) (a tram every 2 minutes). You would have to design the tram conversion to basically metro standard, and if you do that, you may as well put in a real metro! A tram every 1.5 minutes is 40 trams/hour x 300 pax = 12 000, which is the same as the current busway.

Conclusion: Light Rail on the busway will not increase capacity.

Quote
In any case, I don't see Quirk's metro plan being built unless he is able to provide a significant amount of the funding from the BCC's coffers, otherwise the State and Federal governments will most likely not help fund it.

The bus operations spend for BCC would go down. It is currently $400 per person, with a metro, there would be efficiencies. The rest would be rates and State Government stuff. I imagine that it would also feature in the State Blue Team manifesto so already that would be a key point of difference in the next state election.

Quote
Bus Network Reform is cost neutral, both the ALP and LNP need to come to their senses already.

Totally agree here!!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 10:56:50 AM by LD Transit »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2016, 10:52:25 AM »
They should also consider getting rid of QSBS. Why do they want to keep it? It will be cut off by the Metro! We need to see more detailed maps of this. How is it going to cross the Victoria Bridge and into the tunnel? It would cut that street in front of the Casino quite sharply.
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Online verbatim9

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2016, 11:13:31 AM »
I like lightrail under ground at least you can run light on converted busways and street level without changing modes. Underground LRT runs at 80 km per hour. Some lines can be driverless and the ones that run street level and underground may still need a driver. When it comes to periodical replacement you may get a better deal with tendering along with Gold Coast light rail for new LRT sets.

(LRT underground is a metro basically but more versatile)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 11:19:50 AM by verbatim9 »

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2016, 11:18:33 AM »
Its not getting professionallly investigated. Its all election hype.

Whats better steel or rubber? Rubber is quieter but smells. Steel is still t he preferred mode iternationally. P.S. Vic Bridge should be turned into a Green Transit Bridge now and the tar replaced with concrete on the pedestrian and cycle components black tar attracts too much heat.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 11:27:33 AM by verbatim9 »

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2016, 11:20:21 AM »
Quote
I like lightrail under ground at least you can run light on converted busways and street level without changing modes. Underground LRT runs at 80 km per hour. Some lines can be driverless and the ones that run street level and underground may still need a driver. When it comes to periodical replacement you may get a better deal with tendering along with Gold Coast light rail for new LRT sets.

Yes, LRT can be used both on the street and underground. Toronto is doing this, for example, with its crosstown line.

However, if you run LRT on the surface and in tunnels, then you are going from Class A Priority to Class B Priority. It means that accidents at intersections / bad weather etc can shut down the core. And the core is the most highly used and critical component. We have seen this with the Gold Coast LRT - it goes offline from time to time due to car incidents at shared intersections.

Also, LRT on the busway would be at capacity on day one, even with trams coming every 1.5 minutes.
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2016, 11:21:51 AM »
I'm rather less sanguine about this than some of the correspondents above.

We should be asking the question whether the busway corridor actually needs 30,000 pphd, ie whether spending $1.5bn on something like this is actually useful.

$1.5bn is a massive chunk of the CRR bill, which fixes a multitude of problems including but definitely not limited to inner city bus capacity.  All they appear to be proposing is to offload passengers from buses at CBD fringe stations, which is something you can also do with CRR just as easily.

Unless they are going to expand this significantly further out from the CBD area, the bus savings are going to be negligible, especially on the northside.

I think the announcements from all parties so far demonstrate one thing - nobody in Brisbane has a real grasp of what the problems actually are or how they can be fixed expediently without an orgy of construction work.
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Offline Gazza

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2016, 11:30:41 AM »
Good point.
This proposes depositing passengers at Wooloongabba and RBWH.
CRR could do the same thing, but just swap RBWH for an Ekka station closer to Bowen Bridge Rd.

Offline #Metro

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2016, 12:02:24 PM »
Quote
We should be asking the question whether the busway corridor actually needs 30,000 pphd, ie whether spending $1.5bn on something like this is actually useful.

It would simplify busway operations as it is extended. Busway reaches around 12 000 pphd currently. Superbuses could help incrementally but even these have a limit (one superbus every 30 seconds = 18 000 pphd).

Quote
$1.5bn is a massive chunk of the CRR bill, which fixes a multitude of problems including but definitely not limited to inner city bus capacity.  All they appear to be proposing is to offload passengers from buses at CBD fringe stations, which is something you can also do with CRR just as easily.

Yes, and this is a good point you make. Theoretically, CRR could handle this - the buses would just feed CRR at Woolloongabba. However, CRR is a long distance train service. You would need to run an additional 12 trains per hour to take the busway load - a train every five minutes from either Gold Coast or Beenleigh. And we haven't even put any GC or Beenleigh pax on it yet- that is just the displaced busway pax.

Is that reasonable? You would need some big depot nearby and run short services, say from Park Road/wherever the CRR portal begins, into the CBD.

(Calculation: 12 000 pax / 1000 pax train = 12 trains, so 60 minutes / 12 = trains every 5 mins).

Quote
Unless they are going to expand this significantly further out from the CBD area, the bus savings are going to be negligible, especially on the northside.

True, but this was also the case with the busway when it began in 2000. Short section from CBD to Woolloongabba.

Quote
I think the announcements from all parties so far demonstrate one thing - nobody in Brisbane has a real grasp of what the problems actually are or how they can be fixed expediently without an orgy of construction work.

To be honest, I think politicians do a good job of reflecting the wider communities fears, biases, misconceptions, anxieties and irrationalities.

A compromise position would be to construct Cross River Rail with the two-level tunnel, but replace the bus component with metro, and feed the SE Busway into it. The section along route 66, RBWH-The Gabba could remain as busway, and be done by superbuses.

The metro would have to be in separate tunnel through Buranda to allow 209 to continue as busway. There would no longer be buses 169 or 66 from the CBD to UQ, all pax would get the metro to Buranda and then change to connecting 209 crosstown superbus.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2016, 12:08:19 PM »
Sent to all outlets:

31st January 2016

Brisbane Bus Reform: Election Holy Grail Still Up For Grabs!

Greetings,


Image: Citywide coverage of Hi-Frequency buses after bus reforms. Purple lines are 150 pax superbus lines.

Proposing a metro within the core of the Busway network is a stark admission that Brisbane City Council's hi-waste bus philosophy of "every bus must travel to the CBD" is unsustainable, incredibly inefficient and a failure.

Brisbane City Council's buses must be completely reorganised to feed the metro and existing QR rail stations. We call on the Queensland Government to begin constructing a bus-rail interchange at Indooroopilly.

The election 'holy grail' - complete bus reform of the entire Brisbane bus network is still up for grabs. Under bus reform, 12 new hi-frequency bus routes could be put on. Bus reform would be complete within a single term of office and come at virtually neutral cost.

Our New Bus Network Proposal is here ---> http://tiny.cc/newnetwork We list the changes and upgrades below.

Neither the Brisbane Metro proposal nor the Light Rail proposal has addressed the lack of service in bus 'black hole' areas such as Yeronga, Bulimba, The Centenary Suburbs and The Northwestern Suburbs.

This election will be won and lost on public transport. Bus Reform does not need billions of dollars, it is the holy grail - who will grab it?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

New Bus Network Proposal - Frequent Services

http://tiny.cc/newnetwork (New Network, All services)
http://tiny.cc/checkyourbus (Current Brisbane City Council Bus Network)

66 UQ Lakes - RBWH - Converted to superbus operation.

Hi 111 Eight Mile Plains - Merged with 160, Co-locate 555 in King George Square.
Hi 190 Blue CityGlider - Travel the full length of Montague Rd. Consider for Superbus conversion.
Hi 196 Yeronga - Extend current 196 into Yeronga via Kadumba St.
Hi 100 Inala Express - Alter route to travel via Moorooka
Hi 120 Garden City via Coopers Plains station - Bus altered to connect passengers into via Coopers Plains rail station
Hi 130 Sunnybank Hills - No change.
Hi 140 Browns Plains RSL - No change.
Hi 150 Browns Plains - No change.
Hi 175 Logan Road (Garden City) - Created by amalgamation with 174. Faster route via new Buranda busway routing.
Hi 180 Cavendish Rd (Garden City) - New routing connects to Coorparoo station. Less duplication.
Hi 185 Mansfield - Faster routing via Nursery Rd and busway.
Hi 199 West End- No change.
Hi 200 Carindale - New routing. Residents in Stanley Rd and Macrossan St Seven Hills get new access to Hi Frequency buses.
Hi 205 Carindale Heights - New Hi Frequency along the entire length of Cavendish Rd.
Hi 209 UQ Lakes - No change.
Hi 222 Carindale Interchange - Convert to superbus.
Hi 230 BulimbaGlider via Morningside Station. Amalgamate existing services in the area to create BulimbaGlider. Connect to Roma St/Morningside rail.
Hi 300 Toombul Interchange - New Hi frequency bus service through Hamilton and along Kingsford Smith Drive
Hi 330 Bracken Ridge - Passengers fed to rail at Zillmere. Continues to Chermside. Rail connection frees up buses for expanding Hi Frequency elsewhere in Brisbane.
Hi 333 Chermside Interchange - Convert to superbus.
Hi 340 Carseldine Rail - No change.
Hi 345 Aspley - No change.
Hi 359 Albany Creek - New Hi Frequency service to Albany Creek.
Hi 374 Maroon Glider - Serving Bardon.
Hi 375 Stafford - Upgraded to Hi Frequency service.
Hi 380 The Gap via Ashgrove - Amalgamate low-frequency routes in area to create new Hi Frequency service.
Hi 385 The Gap via Paddington - No change.
Hi 400 CentenaryGlider (Superbus) - Amalgamate low-frequency routes to create a new Hi Frequency service. Superbus.
Hi 412 St Lucia (Superbus) - Convert to superbus operation. Amalgamate 402 serice.
Hi 444 Moggill - Feed rail at Indooroopilly. Connect to 400 CentenaryGlider Superbus.

Selected CityConnector Cross-Town services
902 Toombul via Carindale (CITYCONNECTOR) - Amalgamate Great Circle Line routes and 590 to create new Hi Frequency service.
911 UQ via Hawken Drive (CITYCONNECTOR) - Amalgamate Great Circle Line and 411 to create new Hi Frequency service.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline Gazza

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2016, 12:18:00 PM »
Here's my thoughts on how it would work.
-It definitley would be Class A, hence the talk of closing north quay to traffic....That would be the one place where a road would be crossed at Grade.

it might go something like this.

-Reconfigure Gabba into a terminating bus station on the Go Print site. Terminal Platforms there
-New ROW from Gabba to Mater Hill portal. I cant imagine them giving up the option of having some buses run acoss the Capt Cook Bridge.
-Section through south bank as you'd expect.
-Major Surgery around South Brisbane. Light metro would keep going downhill along the back of the convention center to get under Melbourne St, to the proposed underground station.
-Cultural Center would be shifted to the southern side of the Victoria Bridge, and would feed directly across the bridge to QSBS
-Metro takes northern lanes of bridge, takes part of North Quay at Grade (lanes on side facing river)
In all honestly, for all the mess you'd make here I'd just build the damn extra bridge across the river.
-Metro portal to underground section in the middle of Adelaide st near the library entrance.
-Runs underground and plugs into KGS station
-From there as you'd expect to Herston

Offline Gazza

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2016, 12:24:27 PM »
Quote
Is that reasonable? You would need some big depot nearby and run short services, say from Park Road/wherever the CRR portal begins, into the CBD.
Not unreasonable at all. And why would you need a special depot?

Before the Libs got in in WA and scrapped it, the Mandurah to Clarkson line had an additional shuttle from Whitfords to Cockburn Central using turnbacks at each station, which meant an offpeak frequency of 7.5mins.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.7965604,115.7823991,228m/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-32.1340315,115.859787,164m/data=!3m1!1e3

This meant all the major bus interchange stations, like Canning Bridge, Esplanade etc maintained really high frequency at all times.

Modifying this to Brisbane, you might run an Ekka to Yeerongpilly pattern all day.

Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2016, 12:28:41 PM »
Sent to all outlets:

31st January 2016

Questions arise over the Brisbane ' Metro ' proposal

Greetings,

We require more detail of the Lord Mayor's Brisbane Metro Proposal.

Specifically, we want to see images of the Woolloongabba, RBWH bus-rail interchanges and the portals at both ends of the Victoria Bridge. The Woolloongabba interchange would have to handle in excess of 12 000 passenger transfers per hour. We also need to know if high voltage overhead wire will be used, or high voltage third rail on the Victoria Bridge.

Overhead wire will have significant visual impact, wheres third rail will present a high voltage electrocution hazard for pedestrians who trespass into the corridor.

Trespass is highly likely given the crowds present in the CBD.

Strengthening of the Victoria Bridge is almost certainly required. Can the bridge cope with a full load of metro passengers? It seems that most of the weight would be concentrated on just one side of the bridge, creating a considerable weight imbalance.

It is not clear to us if the turn in Adelaide Street is too sharp for these vehicles. It also raises questions as to how Brisbane City Council staff will access their own headquarters at Brisbane Square as the car entry is on the metro alignment.

Similar issues arise turning from Adelaide Street to King George Square. That seems to be a sharp turn. Is it within the vehicle turning radius?

The map also has no depot location indicated. Trains need maintenance and somewhere to store them at night. Where is that going to be located?

The Lord Mayor has a lot of questions he needs to answer. We need more detail about this proposal. While we welcome the proposal, it is extremely crude.

The Lord Mayor has proposed things in the past that did not stack up.  For example the  ' Cleveland Solution - Light Rail from Cleveland <> Ferny Grove with an elevated section of light rail in the Brisbane River!

Is the Brisbane ' Metro ' proposal just desperate politics?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Brisbane transport: Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s $1.54b “Brisbane Metro” plan
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-transport-lord-mayor-graham-quirk-154b-brisbane-metro-plan/news-story/db38fe6f9fe05fcb7463c196e97a82f1#load-story-comments

Sent to all outlets:

31st January 2016

2016 BCC Public Transport SHOWDOWN: Lord Mayor announces Brisbane ' Metro '

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers welcomes Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s announcement for a ' metro ' in Brisbane, and plans to convert Victoria Bridge to a ' green ' bridge.

This is a sudden and radical change in public transport policy by the Lord Mayor Graham Quirk.

Public transport is front and centre for the 2016 Brisbane City Council Elections. It has come about because the bus network is breaking down, and there are 11 000+ apartments in various stages of planning or construction in Brisbane at the moment which will put even more pressure on the failing bus network.

First and foremost, all candidates must realise that the bus network is broken and needs reform. As we have shown this can be done within two years, introducing 12 new hi frequency bus routes around Brisbane at virtually neutral cost. Our proposal is here at http://tiny.cc/newnetwork and features a high frequency route 230 Bulimba and route 400 Centenary services.

Bus reform will have to be carried out anyway even if a metro is built, as it is not possible for buses and trains to share the same corridor into the CBD.

During the morning peak hour, the SE Busway carries around 12 000 passengers/direction/hour. Simply converting the busway to Light Rail would not increase capacity. A larger capacity mode, such as metro is required.

An important thing is that the metro should be fully automatic and not require any drivers from day one. This means services can be frequent, well into the night.

Cities with similar subway systems include Vancouver’s Skytrain, the Copenhagen metro (driverless), the Paris Metro,and the Montreal Metro in Canada.

RAIL Back on Track welcomes the announcement, and looks forward to further policies by candidates, in particular, a full and comprehensive bus reform plan for Brisbane, similar to what we have outlined in our New Bus Network Proposal for Brisbane.

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Brisbane transport: Lord Mayor Graham Quirk’s $1.54b “Brisbane Metro” plan
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-transport-lord-mayor-graham-quirk-154b-brisbane-metro-plan/news-story/db38fe6f9fe05fcb7463c196e97a82f1#load-story-comments
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2016, 12:35:43 PM »
Twitter

Team Quirk ‏@Team_Quirk 5 minutes ago

A commitment, not an 'investigation', into a real solution to tackle congestion and provide more services in suburbs



==========

^

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 3 minutes ago

. @Team_Quirk bus reform will deliver the same ... but cost neutral ...
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2016, 12:39:35 PM »
The BrizCommuter word on both LNP and ALP's council election plans.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/quirky-council-election-promises.html

Thoughts on Quirk's Brisbane Metro idea are summarised below:
- Would decrease journey times between the metro stations as long as the frequency is high at all times of the day.
- Would not significantly increase capacity through the inner busway system (approx. 15,000 passengers/hour/direction, 50% of the media claim), though loadings may be more even.
- Does not serve major trip generators on Brisbane's inner busway system - UQ and RBWH (it would annoyingly stop one stop short of the latter).
- Would force an additional change just outside of the CBD for passengers who currently have a direct bus route to the CBD. This could increase journey times for these commuters. (Note: BrizCommuter supports trunk and feeder networks, but with changes in suburbs, not on the edge of the CBD).
- Some displaced bus routes (e.g. 444, Maroon CityGlider) would have to be re-routed through the CBD on roads, with longer journey times.
- Would require significant bus terminus infrastructure at bus/metro change locations - Wooloongabba (it is assumed Eastern and SE Busway services would be routed here), Roma Street, Normanby, and Herston.
- No obvious depot location.
- Inconsistent with long term government plans for a Brisbane metro.
- $1.54b cost seems unrealistic.
- Replacing part of the busway system with metro is likely to have a poor cost/benefit ratio, though this may be better if the entire busway network was converted with extensions (and gaps filled in). This election plan may cause more transport issues than what it solves. Just fix the bus network Mr Quirk!

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan