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Author Topic: Enable Legacy Way for buses as a priority - how could it/should it be done?  (Read 2382 times)

Offline hU0N

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How would you do it? Simplest is probably a bus only ramp from INB portal at Bowen Bridge Road to ICB, to create a bi-directional version of the current trial. I doubt you could move either ramp closer to the portal because of merging.

Or do you think bite the bullet and construct an underground bus only interchange? Without stub tunnels, that's some major disruption to a privately owned facility, most likely with big compensation, but it might be worth it. Assuming it is, would you go for a short connection close to Kelvin Grove? Or go a longer, more direct connection via paddington/red hill with the possibility of creating a new station in this area (perhaps near the stadium) as a bonus?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 08:37:49 AM by ozbob »

Offline ozbob

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Some background ..

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/express-bus-mooted-for-western-suburbs-20100920-15jmr.html

September 21, 2010

Quote
Express bus mooted for western suburbs

Western suburbs residents could receive their first express bus services to the Brisbane CBD through the Northern Link tunnel.

A state government injection of $50 million would be required for the link from the Inner City Busway at Kelvin Grove.

Lord Mayor Campbell Newman outlined the public transport benefits of the new tunnel as he announced Transcity was the successful tenderer for the project.

"This will allow the creation of express bus services to people who live west of the Chapel Hill, Moggill Road, Centenary Highway interchange," Cr Newman said.

"We can then put buses on that run, through the tunnel, from the Inner City Bypass and the Inner Northern Busway and cut a huge amount of congestion out to them."

Public transport advocate Robert Dow, from Rail: Back on Track, said it needed a "$50 million link" between Northern Link and the Inner Northern Busway at Kelvin Grove.

"You would have buses on the Western Freeway through Northern Link in a blink," Mr Dow said.

"I understand there is negotiations [between the state and council] underway and it really a pretty small sum of money given they are spending almost $600 million on the [Eastern] busway out at Buranda."

Cr Newman yesterday spruiked the time-saving benefits of Northern Link, based on the crowded Milton Road, Coronation Drive, the Inner City Bypass and the Western Freeway.

Council expects Northern Link to slice travel times between the Centenary Bridge and Inner City Bypass from 30 to 10 minutes.

A 24-minute afternoon peak-hour journey would be cut to 10 minutes, a saving of 14 minutes, Cr Newman said.

Currently, 80,000 cars use the Centenary Motorway and the Inner City Bypass every day, while there are 70,000 vehicles on Coronation Drive and 55,000 on Milton Road.

"You can see that this is an absolutely critical project for the city of Brisbane," Cr Newman said.

Council is yet to release the 2010 Queensland Treasury Corporation report which would outline how the project would impact on council rates.

The 2009 QTC report predicted rates could rise if traffic figures were lower.

However, with a lower capital cost due to a $300 million saving, along with lower operating costs, the pressure on rates would be lessened.

"It was a $1.8 billion project and it is now $1.5 billion project," Cr Newman said

"Through this very competitive bid process, we have achieved a saving of $300 million."

Cr Newman said there would be no rate rises due to Northern Link.

"We either raise rates - which we don't want to do and which we don't intend to do as a result of the way we are doing this - or we have a user pays toll system," Cr Newman said.

"We think this is the best outcome for our ratepayers."

Council's borrowings for Northern Link have been reduced from $703 million, contained in the 2009 QTC report, to $566 million.

Operating costs have been reduced from around $350 million to $280 million.

"That makes a very significant positive difference to our business case and that is substantially better than the business case we put to the Queensland Treasury Corporation about 12 months ago," Cr Newman said.

=====================

http://www.news.com.au/national/longer-trips-for-bus-commuters-after-legacy-way-bus-link-goes-begging/story-e6frfkp9-1226316729445

April 03, 2012

Quote
Longer trips for bus commuters after Legacy Way bus link goes begging

It could potentially halve the duration of many westside bus trips but a proposed link between the Legacy Way tunnel and the Inner Northern Busway appears to be dead in the water.

Despite the estimated cost being just a quarter of 1 per cent of the project's overall $1.5 billion cost, the former State Government was unable to come to a funding agreement with Brisbane City Council, which is in charge of the project.

New Transport Minister and Member for Indooroopilly Scott Emerson said it was early days but he had to "look at the books" to see how much money was available for a range of transport projects.

"I'm very aware it's an option but I'm also aware it's got a $30 million price tag on it," he said.

"I suspect the former government has understated how much money is owed."

"Legacy way as a project itself is a great project for many people in my electorate because of the amount of traffic it will take off, or ease, also in terms of travel along the Centenary Highway and the Western Freeway," he said.
Residents say no more to rat-running drivers

Public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said not building the link was missing an enormous opportunity to provide better public transport for the "poorly serviced" Centenary suburbs and help ease congestion on some of the Brisbane's most congested roads.

"It is simply unbelievable that petty disagreements between the former State Government and Brisbane City Council led to a stalemate with a failure to connect Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway," he said.

"If buses use the present configuration of Legacy Way they're going to have to go out the back of Herston somewhere and turn back to get in to the city," he said.

Mr Dow said the link would provide the options for super-fast express services to the city from Indooroopilly and areas further west.

"It really does improve options for people in the Centenary suburbs out that side of town, which at the moment is very poorly served by public transport because of those road congestion issues.

"If they can get on Legacy way it will make a public transport a lot more attractive option for people," he said.

Brisbane City Council Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the former Labor State Government had failed to support the connection.

 "The initial plan was to link Legacy Way with the Inner Northern Busway but unfortunately the Labor State Government at the time wouldn't provide the needed funding so it didn't go ahead," he said.

 "We will continue to look at other options to support this link but even without a direct connection, Legacy Way will still provide bus services with substantial time savings," he said.

Once completed, Legacy Way will connect the Western Freeway with the Inner City Bypass.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 09:09:32 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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How would you do it? Simplest is probably a bus only ramp from INB portal at Bowen Bridge Road to ICB, to create a bi-directional version of the current trial. I doubt you could move either ramp closer to the portal because of merging.

Or do you think bite the bullet and construct an underground bus only interchange? Without stub tunnels, that's some major disruption to a privately owned facility, most likely with big compensation, but it might be worth it. Assuming it is, would you go for a short connection close to Kelvin Grove? Or go a longer, more direct connection via paddington/red hill with the possibility of creating a new station in this area (perhaps near the stadium) as a bonus?

Thanks hUON.  Ramps will probably be the best we can expect although doing it underground would be undoubtedly be superior with value added options.

Be interested in any ideas suggestions.   
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Offline SurfRail

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Ramp from Bowen Bridge Road, conceptually very similar to what was proposed for BaT.  Not a red cent more.

There is a 4-track railway sitting there moving nowhere near its native carrying capacity (notwithstanding it merges to 2 tracks at Milton).  We need to get people onto that before allocating capital funding to enable less efficient things like firing more rockets at the city.
Ride the G:

Offline ozbob

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Rockets are being fired regardless.  Ramps would seem be to the way to make it at least bit more accessible to express routes from and to the west.

It is a good thought exercise.  I really doubt if anything will actually happen, after all we are in Brisbane.

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Offline Gazza

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Id agree with a Bowen bridge road ramp.....A $100+ million underground interchange sytem would no way pass a cost benefit test for the number of buses using it, but an onramp should be much cheaper.

Offline red dragin

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Id agree with a Bowen bridge road ramp.....A $100+ million underground interchange sytem would no way pass a cost benefit test for the number of buses using it, but an onramp should be much cheaper.

+1

The Eastern Busway extentions at $gizzilion per cm are seen as wasteful, so I dont think an underground bus station is a smart move to support, for RBOT in a "political" sense. It would just give the haters ammo against RBOT in my opinion.

The ramp is cheaper, simplier and more likely to proceed.

Offline ozbob

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Brisbanetimes --> Bus lanes to be added in $80m Inner City Bypass upgrade

Quote
Bus priority lanes will be included in Brisbane City Council's $80 million Inner City Bypass upgrade, Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk will announce on Tuesday.

The project, announced in last year's council budget, will see the south-westbound and a section of the north-eastbound carriageways widened from three to four lanes and should be completed in 2018.

Cr Quirk said "bus priority measures", including a dedicated bus priority lane, would be added to the ICB's Herston Road exit.

"Queuing at the Herston Road exit off the ICB can typically be for 10-15 minutes in the morning peak so the new dedicated bus priority lane will deliver real action on travel times and reduce congestion," he said.               

Cr Quirk said bus services using the Legacy Way tunnel, which opened last year, had experienced average journey time savings of between five and 13 minutes and patronage had increased by almost 30 per cent on inbound services.

"The construction of a westbound ramp will enable bus services to use the Legacy Way tunnel in both directions and outbound services will potentially experience similar time savings as experienced on inbound services," he said.

Cr Quirk said the council was calling for expressions of interest to design and construct the upgrade.

The successful tender would be announced later in the year, he said.

The upgrade would involve widening the ICB to four lanes in each direction between Legacy Way and the RNA tunnel.

"The existing ICB is operating at up to 90 per cent capacity however it will be severely over capacity by 2021 and that's why we are delivering real action on traffic congestion now," Cr Quirk said.

"This section of road currently carries more than 100,000 vehicles per day and is a major link in the road network with connections to Lutwyche Road, Airport Link Tunnel, Clem Jones Tunnel, Legacy Way tunnel and the soon-to-be-upgraded Kingsford Smith Drive.

"New and improved bus services travelling to and from the western suburbs will be able to interchange with the planned Brisbane Metro system at Herston, providing benefits across the Brisbane-wide bus network."

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Offline ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

3rd May 2016

Enabling Legacy Way for buses - hallelujah !

Good Morning,

Some great news!

Brisbanetimes --> Bus lanes to be added in $80m Inner City Bypass upgrade

As we have pointed out for years, the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for the ' 2000 daily express buses ' has been a major blight on BCC, the previous State Governments and Federal Governments.

At long last something is to be done.  Thank you!

Bus network reform is needed however to optimise the bus network for Brisbane. We cannot wait for a ' pie in the sky metro ', the network is falling apart today.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
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admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1.  4 Mar 2012: SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it ..
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

=============================

2. Media release 3rd July 2015



SEQ: Enable Legacy Way for buses as a priority

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls on the Brisbane City Council and State Government to immediately fix the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for the promised ' 2000 express buses daily '.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The 3 month trial of running the P443 Rocket Express inbound bus via Legacy Way has already demonstrated the massive potential benefit for western bus commuters that could be delivered by connecting Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway."

"Yesterday, the bus that departed stop 37 at Kenmore at 7.29am arrived at Roma St bus station at 7.50am.  This is 19 minutes better than the normal timetable for this bus service.  This is despite the bus having to take a circuitous route onto the INB at Herston."

"This failure with Legacy Way must never be repeated.  It is a sad indictment on Council and Governments. The thing to do now is to fix it! This is a relatively low cost project with massive benefit."

"Any leaders in Queensland?"

References:

1. P443 Rocket Bus trial via Legacy Way http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11508.msg158242#msg158242

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

============================
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 02:23:59 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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4BC News have followed up!  Thanks for the interest ..  :-t

 :bu :bu :bu :bu :bu
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Offline ozbob

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Couriermail --> Inner City Bypass upgrade set to add extra lanes, new bus lanes and shoulder
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Online verbatim9

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Couriermail --> Inner City Bypass upgrade set to add extra lanes, new bus lanes and shoulder



I noticed that easier access to  Bne Metro was mentioned

Offline ozbob

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The metro will never happen as proposed.
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Offline ozbob

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Brisbanetimes --> Road tolls no lower either side of major ICB works

Quote
... Cr Quirk said the decision to allow more buses from the western suburbs to use Legacy Way had dropped travel times by between five and 13 minutes.

"We have seen a 40 per cent growth in patronage in those bus services that are using Legacy Way," he said ...

What a bunch of hypocrites Lord Mayor Quirk and his sycophants are  .... better late than never for the buses, far from ideal though.
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Offline aldonius

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So I indulged myself tonight and counted up all the BCC-westside (ie 4xx) services for weekday inbound.

741. 27 of those use Legacy Way.

Long way to get to 1000...

Online verbatim9

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I guess more busses will be using legacy way in the future and terminate at Herston for the proposed metro

Offline #Metro

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Here are the reasons why buses via legacy way are an issue:

1. No trip generators in the tunnel
2. Does not combine markets - only people with CBD as a destination can use it, so only useful in peak
3. One way (to be fixed)
4. Buses are low capacity compared to trains

Similar problems are seen on the route 77 bus, which should be reformed as part of a new bus network, possibly feeding into UQ.

Brisbane City Council has delivered (drumroll): (27 buses / 2000) x 100 = 1.3% of what it promised.

Must be a big problem with math down at City Hall. Not good with numbers, be it toll road projections, buses down legacy way, or Quack Metro.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 11:49:15 PM by LD Transit »
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

Offline ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

19th June 2016

BCC has lost the transport plot!

Good Morning,

The problem for Lord Mayor Quirk and BCC is no one really believes their duplicitous spin when it comes to transport projects.  It is no surprise to us that they are misrepresenting the true passenger capacity of the absurd proposed Quirk Metro project.

For example they claimed when ' green-washing ' Legacy Way that ' 2000 daily express buses ' would use it.  In actual fact of the promised 2000 today only 27 buses actually use it - 1.3% of what was promised, and that is inbound only because the promised connections with the Inner Northern Busway were not done.

The Quirk Metro is just another in a list of fantasy transport projects that are not sound transport plans and are just political knee-jerk responses from BCC and Lord Mayors - Adelaide Street Bus tunnel, Cleveland Solution, the Bus and Train Tunnel are the recent ones.  All now consigned to fantasy project history.  No doubt soon to be joined in the never-never by the under-capacity under-costed non-deliverable Quirk Metro.

The key project for Brisbane and SEQ is Cross River Rail.  Time to move on with what has a sound transport basis and is actually needed.

Bus network reform will save billions of dollars and can be started this week.   It might be time for the State Government to step in and order BCC to do the right thing from here. BCC has lost the transport plot!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
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[Attached:  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg175788#msg175788 ]
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