Legacy way - buses

[ozbob]

Understand there will be a 3 month trial of running the P443 Kenmore - Moggill Rocket service via Legacy Way.

Current p443 timetable has 7 inbound AM peak & 6 outbound PM peak services.

Possibility of running more routes if trial successful.

Background on the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for buses >> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

[ozbob]

Current P443,444 timetable

>> http://backontrack.org/docs/bus/130218-P443,444.pdf  0.4MB

[BrizCommuter]

I can understand how this route will get into the CBD via the INB inbound (by heading 1km up the ICB outbound after existing LW), but how does it get out of the City outbound? I assume it would have to exit INB north of RBWH, turn left onto Butterfield St, turn left onto Bowen Bridge Road, exit into Spaghetti junction, and hopefully find the correct exit onto the INB?

[ozbob]

There was an item on 7 News that I saw this evening on this.  It sort of suggested that it is possibly just an inbound trial.  That will have to be confirmed.

It seems to be more of an attempt by LM Quirk to cover up the basic failure to properly enable Legacy Way with the bus connection to Inner Northern Busway IMHO.  But I think that once we establish the exact route etc. it might just further highlight the failure. 

[red dragin]

Can anyone test run the actual current trip time and then compare the new trip time?

The extra motorway running will help, once the bus merges across the traffic refusing to use the tunnel. But I don't think it will be enough.

Might become more reliable though?

[hU0N]

It's almost twice the distance Chapel Hill to CBD via the new route. How much faster can it be?

[dancingmongoose]

Can anyone test run the actual current trip time and then compare the new trip time?

The extra motorway running will help, once the bus merges across the traffic refusing to use the tunnel. But I don't think it will be enough.

Might become more reliable though?

Is this with the western freeway still 60km/h inbound from Moggill Road?

[aldonius]

Presently it takes the inbound P443 about 28 minutes to get from Chapel Hill (specifically, the stop 250m outbound of the Moggill Rd/WFreeway interchange) to Roma St busway.

Google Maps reckons the peak hour traffic (at 7:30AM) along the M5 inbound of that point can be as bad as 15 minutes to travel just over 3 km to the Legacy Way portal, so we have that. Then it's 4 minutes to the ICB portal as per the LW ads. Northbound ICB is clear and as BrizCommuter says about 2-3 minutes to the Gilchrist Ave portal. Finally about 7 minutes (worst-case, 66 from RBWH to approximate the Gilchrist Ave lights) to Roma St.

All up, it's about the same length of time (27-29 minutes) inbound. Uh-oh.

[ozbob]

7 News Brisbane

Will Brisbane buses go underground?

The Lord Mayor is pushing for bus services from Brisbane's western suburbs to be funnelled through the Legacy Way tunnel in a bid to cut commuter times to the city. Damien Hansen reports.

>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/video/watch/28493481/will-brisbane-buses-go-underground/#page1

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19th June 2015

P443 Rocket Bus trial via Legacy Way

Good Morning,

A trial of the P443 Rocket Bus via Legacy Way is welcome.  However it does expose the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for buses as indicated by the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane Campbell Newman (see below).

Because the bus connection from Legacy way to Inner Northern Busway was not done, buses using Legacy Way tunnel really have a circuitous route at the CBD end, particularly outbound which works against faster journey times.

The P443 bus service is a peak hour service only.  The present timetable has 7 peak inbound services, and 6 peak outbound services.

A long way from the claimed ' 2000 express buses daily' ..

Must be an election looming.

The Legacy Way bus connection failure is a 'world class' example of poor politics and failed transport planning in the ' smarter state ' ..

Oh. dear.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

30th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Good Morning,

If the Legacy Way bus bull isn't enough deceit.  We can add the BaT tunnel propaganda exercise ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg156875#msg156875 )  to the deceit pedalled by our failed Governments.

What a shocking situation we have with public transport in Queensland.  Will the incompetence and misrepresentation be rewarded?  Of course, it is in their DNA ..

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Greetings,

Lots of hype building concerning Legacy Way.  The way the community has been conned concerning the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway is deplorable.  But it again highlights the failing attitude of Governments, Brisbane City Council and the transport authorities with respect to public transport.

Here is the letter where the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane stated up to 2000 daily express buses on Northern Link (the original name for Legacy Way).



We note a Queensland Parliament E-petition for the extension of the Eastern Busway.

Prioritise the Eastern Busway completion to Redland City

>> http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petition?PetNum=2388

This petition is being promoted by the Deputy Mayor.  Amazing hypocrisy that Council, State and Federal Governments could not find the $50M to enable Legacy Way for ' 2000 express buses daily '  out of project savings,  but think that a billion dollars or more for a busway extension is fine ..

=============================================



Media release 4 March 2012 re-released 16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has highlighted the promise that 'bus users will be able to benefit with up to 2000 express buses able to use Northern Link each day' (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track at the time doubted claims whether 2000 'express' buses per day was truly genuine (see calculations below) and wondered if it was just 'transit-wash', which is using fringe benefits of public transport to curry up favour for a road project whose actual purpose is to provide more road space and resources for car travel (2)."

Calculations

2000 express buses
18 hours per day 2000 buses / 18 hours of service = 111 buses per hour on average
60 minutes in one hour = 3600 seconds in one hour
3600 seconds in one hour / 111 buses per hour
is a bus every 32 seconds
(or assuming all the trips are return trips, a bus a minute).

"One of the most audacious publicly obvious failings in Western Suburbs transport planning was boasting about making a $300 million dollar 'saving' on Legacy Way but then, in the same release, claiming that $50 million dollars could not be found for a bus interconnection to the busway to allow council's own buses to use the Legacy Way (Northern Link Tunnel)"

"The idea of public transport being able to use Legacy Way appears to have been set up to fail and nothing but 'transit-wash'.

"Brisbane City Council is continuing its bizarre record of removing bus lanes from Brisbane's most unreliable road - Coronation Drive, so that its own bus services carrying its own ratepayers are all slowed down and bus operating costs for its own fleet are increased."

"RAIL Back On Track again calls for the total abandonment of 'balanced transport' policies and a shift to 'rebalanced transport' based around walking, cycling, buses, ferries and rail."

References

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4459.msg35456#msg35456

2. Greenwashing, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

========================

Farce!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

7 News Brisbane

Will Brisbane buses go underground?

The Lord Mayor is pushing for bus services from Brisbane's western suburbs to be funnelled through the Legacy Way tunnel in a bid to cut commuter times to the city. Damien Hansen reports.

>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/video/watch/28493481/will-brisbane-buses-go-underground/#page1

Nice cameo by RAIL BoT Sunshine Coast Spokesperson in this!  Thanks!!

[verbatim9]

Apparently a ramp will be completed from Legacy to the Northern Busway at the same time the ICB is widened over the next 2 years http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inner-city-bypass-to-be-widened-to-eight-lanes-in-80-million-project-20150615-gholvq.html

[ozbob]

Apparently a ramp will be completed from Legacy to the Northern Busway at the same time the ICB is widened over the next 2 years http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inner-city-bypass-to-be-widened-to-eight-lanes-in-80-million-project-20150615-gholvq.html

This has been noted.  Don't. hold. your. breath.

Sent to all outlets:

16th June 2015

Better late than never? Election spin??

Greetings,

Well well.  This >  Brisbanetimes --> ICB to be widened to eight lanes in $80 million project

    ... Along with the widening, Cr Quirk said Brisbane City Council would investigate whether a new ramp could be connected to Bowen Bridge Road, allowing motorists and bus commuters to have a direct link to the new Legacy Way tunnel ...

Better late than never I guess.  Must be an election coming up.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

30th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Good Morning,

If the Legacy Way bus bull isn't enough deceit.  We can add the BaT tunnel propaganda exercise ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg156875#msg156875 )  to the deceit pedalled by our failed Governments.

What a shocking situation we have with public transport in Queensland.  Will the incompetence and misrepresentation be rewarded?  Of course, it is in their DNA ..

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Greetings,

Lots of hype building concerning Legacy Way.  The way the community has been conned concerning the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway is deplorable.  But it again highlights the failing attitude of Governments, Brisbane City Council and the transport authorities with respect to public transport.

Here is the letter where the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane stated up to 2000 daily express buses on Northern Link (the original name for Legacy Way).



We note a Queensland Parliament E-petition for the extension of the Eastern Busway.

Prioritise the Eastern Busway completion to Redland City

>> http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petition?PetNum=2388

This petition is being promoted by the Deputy Mayor.  Amazing hypocrisy that Council, State and Federal Governments could not find the $50M to enable Legacy Way for ' 2000 express buses daily '  out of project savings,  but think that a billion dollars or more for a busway extension is fine ..

=============================================



Media release 4 March 2012 re-released 16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has highlighted the promise that 'bus users will be able to benefit with up to 2000 express buses able to use Northern Link each day' (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track at the time doubted claims whether 2000 'express' buses per day was truly genuine (see calculations below) and wondered if it was just 'transit-wash', which is using fringe benefits of public transport to curry up favour for a road project whose actual purpose is to provide more road space and resources for car travel (2)."

Calculations

2000 express buses
18 hours per day 2000 buses / 18 hours of service = 111 buses per hour on average
60 minutes in one hour = 3600 seconds in one hour
3600 seconds in one hour / 111 buses per hour
is a bus every 32 seconds
(or assuming all the trips are return trips, a bus a minute).

"One of the most audacious publicly obvious failings in Western Suburbs transport planning was boasting about making a $300 million dollar 'saving' on Legacy Way but then, in the same release, claiming that $50 million dollars could not be found for a bus interconnection to the busway to allow council's own buses to use the Legacy Way (Northern Link Tunnel)"

"The idea of public transport being able to use Legacy Way appears to have been set up to fail and nothing but 'transit-wash'.

"Brisbane City Council is continuing its bizarre record of removing bus lanes from Brisbane's most unreliable road - Coronation Drive, so that its own bus services carrying its own ratepayers are all slowed down and bus operating costs for its own fleet are increased."

"RAIL Back On Track again calls for the total abandonment of 'balanced transport' policies and a shift to 'rebalanced transport' based around walking, cycling, buses, ferries and rail."

References

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4459.msg35456#msg35456

2. Greenwashing, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

========================

Farce!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[verbatim9]

Maybe it could be funded by the Federal government as its a road requiring another off ramp for cars that busses can use as well

[James]

Apparently a ramp will be completed from Legacy to the Northern Busway at the same time the ICB is widened over the next 2 years http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inner-city-bypass-to-be-widened-to-eight-lanes-in-80-million-project-20150615-gholvq.html

Not really. As far as I can see, it'll be a car access ramp from Bowen Bridge Road near the Bowen Bridge Road INB portal (used by the 37Xs). Much welcomed for a car user (no need to travel halfway to Chermside to get to the ICB), but will probably have little benefit for a bus user, unless they somehow incorporate some kind of reverse-U-turn phase into the lights there (which would be pretty bad for traffic flow generally).

[ozbob]

Nil official information released on this proposal yet ... 

Looks more and more like a desperate stunt by Quirk et al to curry favour for Legacy Way ..

so settle back and enjoy a good song .. 

[#Metro]

Oh look, a flying pig 

[newbris]

Apparently a ramp will be completed from Legacy to the Northern Busway at the same time the ICB is widened over the next 2 years http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inner-city-bypass-to-be-widened-to-eight-lanes-in-80-million-project-20150615-gholvq.html

Not really. As far as I can see, it'll be a car access ramp from Bowen Bridge Road near the Bowen Bridge Road INB portal (used by the 37Xs). Much welcomed for a car user (no need to travel halfway to Chermside to get to the ICB), but will probably have little benefit for a bus user, unless they somehow incorporate some kind of reverse-U-turn phase into the lights there (which would be pretty bad for traffic flow generally).

The new ramp to the left lane of the ICB would most likely descend from the bus portal bridge itself as planned in the BaT. This allowed cars to enter the current bus portal bridge from Bowen Bridge Rd and then turn left (half away across the bus bridge) down onto the ICB. Buses coming from the INB enter the bus portal bridge and then turn right down onto the ICB. So cars take the left lane of the ramp and buses the right lane and then merge as they travel down the ramp into a single lane which enters the left side of the ICB heading inbound.

[verbatim9]

Sounds like a good design hope its implemented soon

[BrizCommuter]

The ramp is being "investigated", i.e. won't happen.   

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sounds like its going to be a mindf**k of a route.

[ozbob]

I am looking forward to going for a journey on the P443.  I guess it will be the only time I go via Legacy Way.

[hU0N]

I'm quite opposed to a mixed traffic ramp. I'm dubious about the merits of routing western suburbs buses via Herston, although if it stacks up then ok. But as for a mixed traffic ramp, all that does is make driving more attractive for journeys between the south/west and Fortitude Valley, where good PT already exists.

Brisbane motorways are superior to most Australian cities because they generally quite carefully laid out to ensure that they don't work particularly well for journey-to-town type trips (apart from the riverside expressway, which dates from a less enlightened era). And for what is a marginal benefit to  some buses, this generally good point of Brisbane's motorways shouldn't be monkeyed with.

[HappyTrainGuy]

For a 5 minute saving using the tunnel its going to take a 15 minute detour??

[James]

I'm quite opposed to a mixed traffic ramp. I'm dubious about the merits of routing western suburbs buses via Herston, although if it stacks up then ok. But as for a mixed traffic ramp, all that does is make driving more attractive for journeys between the south/west and Fortitude Valley, where good PT already exists.

Brisbane motorways are superior to most Australian cities because they generally quite carefully laid out to ensure that they don't work particularly well for journey-to-town type trips (apart from the riverside expressway, which dates from a less enlightened era). And for what is a marginal benefit to  some buses, this generally good point of Brisbane's motorways shouldn't be monkeyed with.

The ramp really wouldn't improve that many journeys, but it significantly improves travel time for the few trips it does improve, and means that drivers no longer need to travel halfway to Chermside just to get on to the ICB (which needlessly congests Bowen Bridge Rd). The other factor is that this shortcut already exists on the inbound, it is just the outbound which is really annoying. Generally, this ramp would be best for those coming from Gregory Tce or the northern area of Fortitude Valley. Depending on where the ramp is placed, it could also be useful for traffic coming from Campbell St.

In terms of travel from the 'activity centre' of Fortitude Valley, most traffic would still use Ann St and out to the Riverside Expressway, especially given the traffic on Gipps St and heading towards the hospital can be pretty bad.

[hU0N]

^^ Indeed. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be useful. I'm saying that journeys to/from Gregory Terrace really ought to be PT journeys and in the small number of cases where this is not possible the existing surface streets should be adequate. Or more to the point, reducing congestion and annoyance for drivers that could/should easily be taking PT is way down the list of priorities when it comes to road funding. 

[red dragin]

James,

What do you mean travelled halfway to Chermside to get on the ICB?

Assuming your talking about a journey from Gregory Terrace to Legacy Way, you take the onramp at Hungry Jacks, keep to the left, follow the road at the lights on the elevated section, keep left again and it dumps you on the ICB.

A nuisance yes but hardly going all the way to the Kedron Park Hotel.

[Gazza]

I think halfway to Chermside was tongue in cheek.
The arrangements there are very indirect, and put needless extra traffic past the hospital.

[James]

^^ Indeed. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be useful. I'm saying that journeys to/from Gregory Terrace really ought to be PT journeys and in the small number of cases where this is not possible the existing surface streets should be adequate. Or more to the point, reducing congestion and annoyance for drivers that could/should easily be taking PT is way down the list of priorities when it comes to road funding.

It is a difficult area to access by PT. You either face an unpleasant walk from RBWH, an unpleasant walk from Fortitude Valley, the hourly (and non-existent on Sundays!) route 321 or transferring to the illegible and irregularly all-stops corridor between Fortitude Valley and RBWH. Secondly, the areas which benefit are few - it is a small area between St Joseph's and O'Connell St which gains. It is a bonus, yet not a big issue otherwise.

Interestingly enough, I actually had to travel to/from Gregory Tce today. Didn't even consider using the bus due to infrequency and inaccessibility of this area.

I think halfway to Chermside was tongue in cheek.
The arrangements there are very indirect, and put needless extra traffic past the hospital.

^^^ This. Tongue thoroughly in cheek with that one.

[red dragin]

No wuckers - wasn't sure 

[ozbob]

Something to relax by, while waiting for the P443 via Legacy Way details .. 

[ozbob]

While we are waiting to catch the P443 Rocket bus via Legacy Way ... enjoy!   

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest Westside News 24th June 2015 page 3

Legacy Way bus service trials get put into action

TRANSPORT advocate Robert Dow says activating buses on Legacy Way is the right move but laments the absence of a connection with Inner Northern Busway.

Brisbane City Council will explore the viability of directing peak-hour service 443 to and from Moggill through the $1.5 billion tunnel.

"We've got this token trial of the 443 which is 13 services a day – far short of what potentially could be done," Mr Dow (pictured) said.

"It (busway connection) is something achievable and well worth doing because it will make a difference to those people coming on that long bus commute from Kenmore and Moggill.

"With the circular route they have to take to get on and off the Legacy Way, because there is no bus connection, it does detract a lot from the potential value."

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said the 443 would be trialled for three months.

If the trial is successful, council will seek TransLink approval to re-route the 426 Chapel Hill, 431 Kenmore South, 446 Fig Tree Pocket, 455 Riverhills, and 456 Mount Ommaney.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Team Quirk ‏@Team_Quirk 7h

First cars using #LegacyWay!!



=================

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 5m

. @Team_Quirk Don't see any of the '2000 daily express buses ' ... ?? #LegacyWay predicated on lies .. > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.msg156941#msg156941 ... #qldpol

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/51176/details

Catch the P443 via Legacy Way & Inner Northern Busway

Last updated: 4.23pm Friday 26 June 2015

From Monday 29 June, route P443 from Moggill will travel through Kenmore to the City via Legacy Way and the Inner Northern Busway as part of a trial

Travelling inbound on your morning trip to work?

Services will run express to the City from Chapel Hill via Moggill Road, the Western Freeway, the Legacy Way Tunnel, Inner City Bypass and along the Inner Northern Busway.

If you're heading home to the Western suburbs in the afternoon on route P443

Outbound services will depart as usual from King George Square busway station, stopping at Roma Street busway station and continuing express to Chapel Hill, via Upper Roma Street, Milton Road, and the Western Freeway.

There'll be no changes to existing P443 bus stops as part of this trial.

Find out more about Legacy WayOpens in a new window..

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/legacy-of-failure.html
The BrizCommuter word on this Legacy of Failure.

[STB]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/legacy-of-failure.html
The BrizCommuter word on this Legacy of Failure.

Re: Lack of a timetable - I don't think it's laziness (and I think calling that is a bit inflammatory), but more due to a lack of time to get information out and a new timetable made and printed.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Quirk made the announcement before TransLink even knew about it!  It probably went along these lines - Quirk asks his Advisors to speak to the Brisbane Transport team located at BCC to advise urgently of a bus route that could run along Legacy Way, Brisbane Transport Planners at BCC advise Quirk's advisors to use P443, Advisors mention that to Quirk, Quirk accepts, media release is rushed out, Quirk makes the announcement, TransLink is in a state of WTF?  :conf  TransLink then start rushing to approve the route change, get the website updated, and probably some internal questions going on between TL and BT/BCC over what the heck had just happened.  It wouldn't surprise me if that's the case  .

We all know how the Maroon Glider snuck under TL's noses due to BCC essentially acting as a defacto State Government, thankfully some intense negotiations prior to the route starting prevented the worst of the silliness.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/legacy-of-failure.html
The BrizCommuter word on this Legacy of Failure.

Re: Lack of a timetable - I don't think it's laziness (and I think calling that is a bit inflammatory), but more due to a lack of time to get information out and a new timetable made and printed.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Quirk made the announcement before TransLink even knew about it!  It probably went along these lines - Quirk asks his Advisors to speak to the Brisbane Transport team located at BCC to advise urgently of a bus route that could run along Legacy Way, Brisbane Transport Planners at BCC advise Quirk's advisors to use P443, Advisors mention that to Quirk, Quirk accepts, media release is rushed out, Quirk makes the announcement, TransLink is in a state of WTF?  :conf  TransLink then start rushing to approve the route change, get the website updated, and probably some internal questions going on between TL and BT/BCC over what the heck had just happened.  It wouldn't surprise me if that's the case  .

We all know how the Maroon Glider snuck under TL's noses due to BCC essentially acting as a defacto State Government, thankfully some intense negotiations prior to the route starting prevented the worst of the silliness.

The laziness comment was after "Whether this is due to lack of time since the announcement, or...".
TransLink do have a history of delays in getting timetables out (2 months for a new FG Line timetable after changes were made is the record I think), so I think the jibe is valid.

I expect BCC caught TransLink off guard again.

[SurfRail]

Why not just fine them for driving off route?

[James]

^ Because it is BCC. They essentially have free roam. They'd probably refuse to pay the fine and say that it is actually a benefit to passengers.