RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Media release 5th November 2014

Brisbane Bus Reform: RAIL Back on Track Launches New Bus Network Proposal

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers launches its new Hi Frequency Bus network proposal for Brisbane.

RAIL Back on Track New Bus Network Launch

A service quality map of Brisbane City Council's Bus services:
>> http://tiny.cc/checkyourbus

A service quality map of RAIL Back on Track's Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal
>> http://tiny.cc/newnetwork

Survey Form
>>  http://tiny.cc/busreform

RAIL Back on Track Facebook Page
>> https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack

Screenshot instructions to download the map as .kml for those wishing to download and view the file on their home computer
>> http://backontrack.org/docs/bus/KMLbus.png

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Today we are calling on the public to help us be part of something big. We've noticed that over in New Zealand, Auckland's mayor is out reforming his bus network while our own Lord Mayor was cutting bus services. As Brisbane and Auckland have been sister cities since 1988, our volunteer members have put together a new bus network based on what our New Zealand cousins are doing and we are now inviting the public to participate.

"Residents can now compare BCC's Bus Network and our new Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal. Featuring interactive mapping and aerial photography, residents can zoom in on their house, their suburb, their workplace and compare the quality of BCC's bus service in their area with our Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal. They can see how strong or weak the bus network is in their area, its overall quality and how it fits into the wider bus network.  People with Google Earth may also download the maps and see individual routes. Tell your friends, family, work colleagues to go to our website https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack and fill in our survey or use the direct survey link here http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG

"Residents of Centenary, Albany Creek, Yeronga, Bulimba and Ashgrove would be major winners from bus reform. However, the money for these upgrades is currently locked up because our Lord Mayor insists on driving all buses all to the CBD with many duplicating each other, meaning no money is available to upgrade bus service in these suburbs. We are asking the public to think about their willingness to have some people on the network connect, with a short wait at a civilised facility, if this is the key to massively expanding Brisbane's public transport network without increasing fares.

"Under bus reform passengers will see greater liberty and freedom to go where they want, when they want on a bus that is always coming soon, and have a more equitable distribution of high quality bus services across the entire city.

"Under bus reform, a new 400 CentenaryGlider would connect to all day express trains at Darra station, run through Mt Ommaney, Indooroopilly and along Coronation Drive to the CBD, every 10 minutes all day. You'd be able to use this bus to go shopping, go to work, study, dining out, having a night out in the Valley and more because it connects to everything. It's the closest thing to Light Rail without actually laying the track. Under bus reform, Bulimba's bus services would be massively upgraded with a BulimbaGlider created from amalgamating the existing half hourly 230 and 235 routes into a single bus line coming every 15 minutes all day going to the CBD and also connecting to trains at Morningside. The great thing about this bus reform is that it recycles existing resources so there is a lid kept on fares.

"In Ashgrove, route 380 The Gap would be upgraded to high frequency. A direct bus to the University of Queensland at St Lucia through Ashgrove coming every 15 minutes would also connect with Toowong, Bardon, Ashgrove, Enoggera, the Ferny Grove Rail Line and Brookside Shopping Centre. There is massive student demand in this area, and residents of Ashgrove, Ferny Grove and The Gap would no longer have to travel into the CBD and then out again to get the The University of Queensland.

"To help change along, where appropriate, the new service should run alongside the old for a limited period while passengers 'try before they buy', along with local consultation. This would enable people to actually experience the difference and give informed feedback rather than be asked to accept something that they've never seen or tried before.

"Our New Zealand cousins have set a high standard of public performance when it comes to tough choices and bus reform. The Queensland Government and Brisbane City Council should step up and show that they're capable of doing the same thing. We submit this proposal to TransLink and the Queensland Government as feedback for every single bus service in the entire city of Brisbane, and we formally request a TransLink feedback reference number."

References:

1. Bus Reform: Auckland City Council versus Brisbane City Council
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11016.0

2. "Transferring" can be good for you, and good for your city
http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

3. Auckland: how network redesign can transform a city's possibilities
http://www.humantransit.org/2012/10/auckland-how-network-redesign-can-transform-a-citys-possibilities.html

4. Brisbane's Sister City - Auckland
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/governance-strategy/economic-development/international-relations-program/list-sister-cities/brisbanes-sister-city-auckland

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Key Features of RAIL Back on Track's Hi Quality Bus Network proposal

New 900-series CITYCONNECTOR buses dedicated to cross-town travel. There are thirteen CITYCONNECTOR routes modelled on Melbourne's Orbital SmartBus services. http://ptv.vic.gov.au/projects/buses/smartbus/

Bus Rapid Transit Superbuses capable of carrying 150 passengers per vehicle placed on high volume corridors such as 412 St Lucia via Coronation Drive, 333 Chermside via Northern Busway, 222 Carindale Heights via Old Cleveland Road, and a new hi-frequency 400 CentenaryGlider. This is the closest thing to light rail without actually laying down tracks or putting up wires.

Simpler, easier to understand and intuitive bus network with fewer bus route numbers to remember, fewer timetables to rummage through and with buses connecting to trains and other buses. The number of bus routes is a measure of service complexity and dilution of bus service quality; frequency needs to be concentrated in a few bus routes for services to always be coming soon.

Improved Rail Services. Trains to Springfield would run every 15-minutes all day, permitting Ipswich trains to run express, all day every day. This saves 8 minutes of travel time between Ipswich-Brisbane CBD and it means a bus interchange can be built at Indooroopilly Rail station allowing residents to bypass Coronation Drive congestion. Express trains take just 8 minutes to travel between Indooroopilly Rail Station and Roma Street Station, avoiding Coronation Drive congestion and unreliability. In contrast, BUZ 444 departing Indooroopilly Shopping Centre takes 17 minutes for the same journey and can get caught in congestion. Kippa Ring line opening will see 15 minute all day trains as far as Petrie and frequent train service would be extended by one station to Murrarie on the Cleveland Line to connect with CITYCONNECTOR buses.

More Buses More Often. New all-day Hi-Frequency bus services would be extended into Albany Creek (359 to Mitchelton Station), The Centenary Suburbs (400 CentenaryGlider via Coronation Drive), Bulimba (230 BulimbaGlider via Riding and Thynne Rd), Ashgrove (380 The Gap) and Yeronga (196 Yeronga). Service upgrades by 'topping up' existing near-frequent service to Stafford (375 Stafford City), Toombul (300 Toombul) and Logan Road (175 Garden City).

Limited Interchange at Key Interchange Points (KIPs). These locations would receive distinctive stops and upgraded signage. Most people will experience no need to connect and will not have to do anything as their bus will continue to transit straight through these KIPs on an unbroken journey to the CBD. Generally, passengers on services originating north of Chermside, East of Carindale and West of Indooroopilly may be asked to change. As space for CBD buses is very scarce, services that carry low volumes of passengers into the Brisbane CBD may also be asked to change. Extended service to new parts of the city is mathematically not possible without this change to the network.

Uses existing resources more efficiently by recycling wasteful and inefficient bus routing in the current BCC bus network, keeping a lid on fares while growing patronage and fare revenue.

Proposal does not depend on BaT, new busways, new rail lines or the construction of major and expensive infrastructure. As a planning reform it may be implemented rapidly within 12-48 months. Of course this depends on co-operation,  willingness and preparation of the bus operator(s) to make the required changes.

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane buses: Call for CityGlider in Centenary suburbs

Thanks to LD Transit particularly, and all members who constructively reviewed these plans.

It is not ' the ' solution, but it is ' a ' solution.  It demonstrates well what is needed for Brisbane's bus network.

I believe it is an excellent basis for reform.

Thanks all.

Twitter

A.B. McLaren ‏@mramclaren 3m

@Robert_Dow @railbotforum might be an idea to turn off satellite view - much nicer when stripped back

Impressed, and the Brisbane Times article was well written.

Obviously, things might change depending on individual views, but its a bloody good shot at.


Congrats.

 

Should hopefully open the eyes of quirk,matic,emerson et al 

Overall, a very competitive proposal. Proposes new high-frequency routes while still keeping the old routes in many places and thus avoiding sore points which existed in TransLink's review (100 BUZ, 470, The Gap issues).

Hopefully gets some more traction in the MSM so people realise what can be done with the network.

Interview on 4BC Newstalk 1116 after 3pm news today with Ben Davis.

Quote from: ozbob on November 05, 2014, 13:44:27 PM
Interview on 4BC Newstalk 1116 after 3pm news today with Ben Davis.

4BC Drive Interviews

' Filling black holes '

>> http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-drive-audio-blog/filling-black-holes/20141105-3jo7e.html

Thanks Ben and 4BC!   

Thanks to the team of reviewers, suggestions and participants.
Special thanks to James and STB for critical review.

As I have said:

"New ideas pass through three periods: 1) OMG! It CAN'T be done. 2) It probably can be done, BUT it's not worth doing. 3) I KNEW it was a good idea all along!" — Sir Arthur C. Clarke

We are now at stage 3 of course.

Major benefits for Ashgrove Electorate... a lot at stake there!

A survey is now open on the proposal. Please fill if you can. Maps can also be shared over facebook by using the facebook icon when viewing the maps in your web browser.


Survey Form
>> http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG

Media release 6th November 2014

Brisbane: Ministers flee BCC Bus Cost Explosion

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers highlights bus reform as a major issue for the Ashgrove Electorate as ministers flee the fallout of BCC's bus cost explosion.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back on Track is now running a survey to gauge community thoughts and responses to our New Bus Network proposal. Survey Form here http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG It is telling from the non-response from Brisbane City Council and Queensland Government Ministers that Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's bus network just doesn't work. Everyone can now see the quality of BCC's bus service from their home computer, and how insisting on running all buses all to the CBD deprives other suburbs of decent bus service. It is interesting that Ministers have now gone into hiding about genuine bus reform after the launch of our proposal."

"The failure to abolish Brisbane City Council's public transport responsibilities or deal with genuine network reform could now have dire consequences for the next Queensland Government election and Premier Campbell Newman. Bus reform would see two upgraded high frequency services transit directly through the centre of Ashgrove electorate with a key interchange point at Ashgrove. The 911 UQ CityConnector begins at Brookside Shopping Centre, travels through Mitchelton, Ashgrove, Bardon, Toowong and on to UQ via Metroad 5. It is formed from the amalgamation of the current BCC 411 and Great Circle Line. The 380 The Gap along a new Payne Road alignment also runs through Ashgrove and the key interchange point at Ashgrove will permit passengers from both 385 The Gap and our proposed 380 The Gap to access this 911 UQ CityConnector service without having to travel to the Brisbane CBD and then out again. It is formed from the amalgamation of 379, 380, 381 and other services. Does Campbell Newman and electorate challenger Kate Jones support bus reform and upgraded services for the Ashgrove Electorate?"

"Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is on record as staunchly opposing bus reform and intermodal connections. Can the Lord Mayor explain how he expects Centenary residents to access schools, hospitals, new jobs, universities at Springfield and Ipswich if he doesn't want buses to access Darra station and perform interchange? Will the Lord Mayor fund and run BCC buses into Ipswich and Springfield Central instead? Does the Lord Mayor support or reject the 230 BulimbaGlider and the proposed 400 CentenaryGlider services? CityGlider services are initiatives of Brisbane City Council, as it says on the side of CityGlider buses. These services are formed out of existing resources so we believe that little or no new funding is required to put these services on. New services could be introduced first and then once settled the old ones changed or removed."

"Will the Queensland Government accept Brisbane City Councils bus tender even if it refuses to run a proper network that includes connections as has been indicated by the Lord Mayor? Does it make sense to sign up an operator if it bluntly states that it will not run services that it is paid to operate?"

"As we have said, only genuine reform of rail and bus networks, together with fare reform will guarantee abundant and low cost public transport for all."

References:

1. Bus Reform: Auckland City Council versus Brisbane City Council
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11016.0

2. "Transferring" can be good for you, and good for your city
http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

3. Auckland: how network redesign can transform a city's possibilities
http://www.humantransit.org/2012/10/auckland-how-network-redesign-can-transform-a-citys-possibilities.html

4. 5 Nov 2014: Brisbane Bus Reform: New Bus Network Proposal
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11046.0

5. Interview 4BC Drive -
' Filling black holes '
http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-drive-audio-blog/filling-black-holes/20141105-3jo7e.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Brisbanetimes --> Scrap the Great Circuit Bus line and begin again: expert

QuoteBrisbane's Great Circuit Line bus route – which slowly crawls around the shopping centres of Brisbane over three hours – has had its day and should be scrapped, an urban transport expert agrees.

Public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track yesterday released their ideas to review Brisbane's bus services, disappointed that many of the state government's better ideas were scrapped when Brisbane City Council took over the review.

One of Rail Back on Track's suggestions was that the Great Circuit Line be scrapped and the resources put into 16 cross-city bus services instead.

That was one Translink proposal for Brisbane's 2013 bus network review, which was subsequently taken over by Brisbane City Council and rejected.

Griffith University's Dr Matt Burke, the Senior Research Fellow in Transport at their Urban Research Program, agreed it was time to end Brisbane's Great Circuit Line bus route.

"I think the Great Circuit Line is an idea that has had its day and there are more efficient ways to use those bus kilometres," Dr Burke said.

"And, in principle, the idea of a set of cross-suburban connectors – say running down a Stafford Road, or down the Kessells-Riawena-Granard road-type corridor (Mt Gravatt and Acacia Ridge) across the city are good ideas," he said.

"They go across the major 'desire lines' and there are a lot of people want to travel to get to a 'Garden City', or across to a 'Chermside'."

Dr Burke said more direct cross–city routes were the style of bus programming now being employed in other cities across the world.

"They run a more obvious route than the Great Circle and they would run more frequently, they would run in the evenings and they would run on the weekends, which the Great Circle doesn't do."

Dr Burke said the main emphasis of Rail Back on Track's proposals were a step back to the issues raised by Translink, when they began to review Brisbane's buses.

"They wanted to increase the connectivity across the network and in particular, increase the connections between the buses and the trains," he said.

Translink proposed six 'cross-city' segments in 2013.

Dr Burke said there was some resistance to this idea in Brisbane City Council's transport planning teams, who were too easily influenced by "squeaky wheels".

"People really quickly notice when a service is removed from them," he said.

"But it takes a while for them to realise the benefits of services that are introduced for them."

Dr Burke said politicians were too easily influenced by "noise" and did not take the time to explain well-researched alternatives.

Dr Burke said there were benefits to commuters in last year's bus network review.

"But it has taken people a while to realise those benefits."

Dr Burke said Rail Back on Track's proposals were a symbol of frustration with Brisbane's bus network.

He agreed it made more sense to put more resources into more "high frequency services".

"And having a smaller number of these very expensive routes that really try and 'wiggle and squiggle' and journey their way through every pocket of suburbia."

Dr Burke said Rail Back on Track's proposals should be considered by researchers who are now exploring ways of improving public transport planning.

He said Rail Back on Track's frustration mirrored similar experiences in Sydney around 2007-08 when transport planning was "less than convincing" and Infrastructure Australia refused to fund projects.

Sydney transport planner Dr Garry Glazebrook was among a series of thinkers who challenged traditional public transport ideas, Dr Burke said.

Dr Burke said the biggest problem in Brisbane's bus network routes was still the high proportion of "dead-running" when buses return to depots with no passengers.

"We have the highest proportion of dead-running of all the capital cities in Australia," he said.

"Around the world we try to get down to one in six trips as a dead run. And in Brisbane we have the damning statistic that it is around one in four trips."

Dr Burke said the main problem was that too many Brisbane bus routes "competed" with train routes, rather than dropping people at train stations.

"And that is not unusual in Australian cities, but it is extremely exacerbated in Brisbane."

The Brisbane problem was identified in 2011 by planners AT Kearney, who found that 28 per cent of Brisbane's buses ran empty, the highest proportion in Australia.

In June 2011, Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said two new bus depots – at Sherwood and Eagle Farm – would improve the situation.

In November 2014, Brisbane City Council declined to directly answer questions.

Sent to all outlets:

6th November 2014

Re: Brisbane: Ministers flee BCC Bus Cost Explosion

Greetings,

Two news items worth noting:

1. Brisbanetimes --> Scrap the Great Circuit Bus line and begin again: expert

2. Interview 4BC Drive -
' Filling black holes '
http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-drive-audio-blog/filling-black-holes/20141105-3jo7e.html

Bus network reform is complex, and it needs to be carefully explained to the public as to why reform is necessary and the massive benefits that follow.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Congratulations all, and I'm glad that I was able to provide some critical review using my training that I got at TransLink years ago.  I actually proposed a high frequency BUZ route for Centenary way back in 2006, along with an overhaul of the Wynnum routes when I was a Planner at TransLink and was reviewed and given the rubber stamp of approval by a Consultant, who in fact created the initial routes we have today way back in the late 90s! Both of which have yet to see the light of day.  I've still got the maps here at home in fact!  By the way, that same Consultant who worked with BCC in creating the current routes, also thinks that change is needed, he told me years ago (around 2008 in fact), that Bulimba needed a BUZ route urgently feeding into Morningside station.

With Council, TMR and Government not saying a word, that's saying more than anything else of the situation.

QuoteCongratulations all, and I'm glad that I was able to provide some critical review using my training that I got at TransLink years ago.

Thanks. It is an embarrassment that not one,  but two government agencies were not able to come up with a rational plan after TWO bus reviews with all the $ and expertise, and we can do the same thing ourself for FREE.

Sent to all outlets:

7th November 2014

Bus reform for Brisbane

Greetings.

A list of our proposed 900 Series CITYCONNECTOR services to replace Brisbane City Council's Great Circle line. These are cross-town services modelled on Melbourne's SmartBus orbital bus routes which do not go to the CBD.

This permits frequency to be tailored to individual sections of the line, something impossible to do with the current GCL.

We strongly recommend to download all routes in Google Earth for best viewing and seeing individual routings >> https://db.tt/8nADm3Rf

900   "900 CITYCONNECTOR to Indooroopilly Interchange
900 CITYCONNECTOR to Garden City Interchange"   Indooroopilly, Indooroopilly Rail, Tennyson, Tennis Centre, Moorooka, Coopers Plains Interchange, Sunnybank, Garden City Interchange

901   "901 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
901 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton Interchange"   Mitchelton Interchange, Mitchelton Rail, Enoggera Interchange, Grange, Albion Interchange, Hamilton, Portside, Doomben Rail, Toombul Interchange

902   "902 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
902 CITYCONNECTOR to Garden City"   Garden City Interchange, Carindale Interchange, Cannon Hill Interchange, DFO Brisbane Airport, Toombul Interchange

903   "903 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
903 CITYCONNECTOR to Ferny Grove"   Ferny Grove Rail, Arana Hills, Mitchelton, Stafford, Wooloowon, Toombul Interchange

904   "904 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
904 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton Interchange"   Mitchelton Rail, Mitchelton Interchange, Hamilton Rd, Chermside Interchange, Wavell Hts, Toombul Interchange

905   "905 CITYCONNECTOR to Carindale Interchange
905 CITYCONNECTOR to Indooroopilly Interchange"   Indooroopilly Interchange, Indooroopilly Rail, Rocklea, Moorooka, Holland Pk West Busway, Carindale Interchange

906   "906 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
906 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton"   Mitchelton, Mitchelton Rail, Mitchelton Interchange, Stafford, Kedron, Nundah, Toombul Interchange

907   "907 CITYCONNECTOR to Toombul Interchange
907 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton Interchange"   Mitchelton Rail, Mitchelton Interchange, Flockton St, Toombul Interchange, Nundah, Virginia

908   "908 CITYCONNECTOR to Nudgee
908 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton Interchange"   Mitchelton Rail, Mitchelton Interchange, Everton Hills, PCH, Chermside Interchange, Nudgee

909   "909 CITYCONNECTOR to Garden City
909 CITYCONNECTOR to Richlands Rail"   Richlands Rail, Inala Interchange, Acacia Ridge, Archerfield, Coopers Plains Interchange, Sunnybank, Garden City Interchange

910   "910 CITYCONNECTOR to Forest Lake
910 CITYCONNECTOR to Mt Ommaney Interchange"   Mt Ommaney Interchange, Darra Interchange, Inala Interchange, Forest Lake

911   "911 CITYCONNECTOR to University of Queensland
911 CITYCONNECTOR to Mitchelton Interchange"   UQ, Hawken Drive, Taringa, Toowong,Toowong Rail, Bardon Interchange, Ashgrove Interchange, Enoggera Interchange, Mitchelton Rail, Mitchelton Interchange.

912   "912 CITYCONNECTOR to Sandgate Interchange
912 CITYCONNECTOR to Strathpine Interchange"   Stathpine Interchange, Bald Hills Rail, Bracken Ridge Shops, Sandgate, Shorncliffe

Best wishes!

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on November 06, 2014, 03:10:14 AM


Media release 6th November 2014

Brisbane: Ministers flee BCC Bus Cost Explosion

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers highlights bus reform as a major issue for the Ashgrove Electorate as ministers flee the fallout of BCC's bus cost explosion.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back on Track is now running a survey to gauge community thoughts and responses to our New Bus Network proposal. Survey Form here http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG It is telling from the non-response from Brisbane City Council and Queensland Government Ministers that Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's bus network just doesn't work. Everyone can now see the quality of BCC's bus service from their home computer, and how insisting on running all buses all to the CBD deprives other suburbs of decent bus service. It is interesting that Ministers have now gone into hiding about genuine bus reform after the launch of our proposal."

"The failure to abolish Brisbane City Council's public transport responsibilities or deal with genuine network reform could now have dire consequences for the next Queensland Government election and Premier Campbell Newman. Bus reform would see two upgraded high frequency services transit directly through the centre of Ashgrove electorate with a key interchange point at Ashgrove. The 911 UQ CityConnector begins at Brookside Shopping Centre, travels through Mitchelton, Ashgrove, Bardon, Toowong and on to UQ via Metroad 5. It is formed from the amalgamation of the current BCC 411 and Great Circle Line. The 380 The Gap along a new Payne Road alignment also runs through Ashgrove and the key interchange point at Ashgrove will permit passengers from both 385 The Gap and our proposed 380 The Gap to access this 911 UQ CityConnector service without having to travel to the Brisbane CBD and then out again. It is formed from the amalgamation of 379, 380, 381 and other services. Does Campbell Newman and electorate challenger Kate Jones support bus reform and upgraded services for the Ashgrove Electorate?"

"Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is on record as staunchly opposing bus reform and intermodal connections. Can the Lord Mayor explain how he expects Centenary residents to access schools, hospitals, new jobs, universities at Springfield and Ipswich if he doesn't want buses to access Darra station and perform interchange? Will the Lord Mayor fund and run BCC buses into Ipswich and Springfield Central instead? Does the Lord Mayor support or reject the 230 BulimbaGlider and the proposed 400 CentenaryGlider services? CityGlider services are initiatives of Brisbane City Council, as it says on the side of CityGlider buses. These services are formed out of existing resources so we believe that little or no new funding is required to put these services on. New services could be introduced first and then once settled the old ones changed or removed."

"Will the Queensland Government accept Brisbane City Councils bus tender even if it refuses to run a proper network that includes connections as has been indicated by the Lord Mayor? Does it make sense to sign up an operator if it bluntly states that it will not run services that it is paid to operate?"

"As we have said, only genuine reform of rail and bus networks, together with fare reform will guarantee abundant and low cost public transport for all."

References:

1. Bus Reform: Auckland City Council versus Brisbane City Council
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11016.0

2. "Transferring" can be good for you, and good for your city
http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

3. Auckland: how network redesign can transform a city's possibilities
http://www.humantransit.org/2012/10/auckland-how-network-redesign-can-transform-a-citys-possibilities.html

4. 5 Nov 2014: Brisbane Bus Reform: New Bus Network Proposal
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11046.0

5. Interview 4BC Drive -
' Filling black holes '
http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-drive-audio-blog/filling-black-holes/20141105-3jo7e.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on November 05, 2014, 02:06:22 AM


Media release 5th November 2014

Brisbane Bus Reform: RAIL Back on Track Launches New Bus Network Proposal

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers launches its new Hi Frequency Bus network proposal for Brisbane.

RAIL Back on Track New Bus Network Launch

A service quality map of Brisbane City Council's Bus services:
>> http://tiny.cc/checkyourbus

A service quality map of RAIL Back on Track's Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal
>> http://tiny.cc/newnetwork

Survey Form
>> http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG

RAIL Back on Track Facebook Page
>> https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack

Screenshot instructions to download the map as .kml for those wishing to download and view the file on their home computer
>> http://backontrack.org/docs/bus/KMLbus.png

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Today we are calling on the public to help us be part of something big. We've noticed that over in New Zealand, Auckland's mayor is out reforming his bus network while our own Lord Mayor was cutting bus services. As Brisbane and Auckland have been sister cities since 1988, our volunteer members have put together a new bus network based on what our New Zealand cousins are doing and we are now inviting the public to participate.

"Residents can now compare BCC's Bus Network and our new Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal. Featuring interactive mapping and aerial photography, residents can zoom in on their house, their suburb, their workplace and compare the quality of BCC's bus service in their area with our Hi Frequency Bus Network proposal. They can see how strong or weak the bus network is in their area, its overall quality and how it fits into the wider bus network.  People with Google Earth may also download the maps and see individual routes. Tell your friends, family, work colleagues to go to our website https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack and fill in our survey or use the direct survey link here http://goo.gl/forms/p0TSHaR9vG

"Residents of Centenary, Albany Creek, Yeronga, Bulimba and Ashgrove would be major winners from bus reform. However, the money for these upgrades is currently locked up because our Lord Mayor insists on driving all buses all to the CBD with many duplicating each other, meaning no money is available to upgrade bus service in these suburbs. We are asking the public to think about their willingness to have some people on the network connect, with a short wait at a civilised facility, if this is the key to massively expanding Brisbane's public transport network without increasing fares.

"Under bus reform passengers will see greater liberty and freedom to go where they want, when they want on a bus that is always coming soon, and have a more equitable distribution of high quality bus services across the entire city.

"Under bus reform, a new 400 CentenaryGlider would connect to all day express trains at Darra station, run through Mt Ommaney, Indooroopilly and along Coronation Drive to the CBD, every 10 minutes all day. You'd be able to use this bus to go shopping, go to work, study, dining out, having a night out in the Valley and more because it connects to everything. It's the closest thing to Light Rail without actually laying the track. Under bus reform, Bulimba's bus services would be massively upgraded with a BulimbaGlider created from amalgamating the existing half hourly 230 and 235 routes into a single bus line coming every 15 minutes all day going to the CBD and also connecting to trains at Morningside. The great thing about this bus reform is that it recycles existing resources so there is a lid kept on fares.

"In Ashgrove, route 380 The Gap would be upgraded to high frequency. A direct bus to the University of Queensland at St Lucia through Ashgrove coming every 15 minutes would also connect with Toowong, Bardon, Ashgrove, Enoggera, the Ferny Grove Rail Line and Brookside Shopping Centre. There is massive student demand in this area, and residents of Ashgrove, Ferny Grove and The Gap would no longer have to travel into the CBD and then out again to get the The University of Queensland.

"To help change along, where appropriate, the new service should run alongside the old for a limited period while passengers 'try before they buy', along with local consultation. This would enable people to actually experience the difference and give informed feedback rather than be asked to accept something that they've never seen or tried before.

"Our New Zealand cousins have set a high standard of public performance when it comes to tough choices and bus reform. The Queensland Government and Brisbane City Council should step up and show that they're capable of doing the same thing. We submit this proposal to TransLink and the Queensland Government as feedback for every single bus service in the entire city of Brisbane, and we formally request a TransLink feedback reference number."

References:

1. Bus Reform: Auckland City Council versus Brisbane City Council
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11016.0

2. "Transferring" can be good for you, and good for your city
http://www.humantransit.org/2009/04/why-transferring-is-good-for-you-and-good-for-your-city.html

3. Auckland: how network redesign can transform a city's possibilities
http://www.humantransit.org/2012/10/auckland-how-network-redesign-can-transform-a-citys-possibilities.html

4. Brisbane's Sister City - Auckland
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/governance-strategy/economic-development/international-relations-program/list-sister-cities/brisbanes-sister-city-auckland

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Key Features of RAIL Back on Track's Hi Quality Bus Network proposal

New 900-series CITYCONNECTOR buses dedicated to cross-town travel. There are thirteen CITYCONNECTOR routes modelled on Melbourne's Orbital SmartBus services. http://ptv.vic.gov.au/projects/buses/smartbus/

Bus Rapid Transit Superbuses capable of carrying 150 passengers per vehicle placed on high volume corridors such as 412 St Lucia via Coronation Drive, 333 Chermside via Northern Busway, 222 Carindale Heights via Old Cleveland Road, and a new hi-frequency 400 CentenaryGlider. This is the closest thing to light rail without actually laying down tracks or putting up wires.

Simpler, easier to understand and intuitive bus network with fewer bus route numbers to remember, fewer timetables to rummage through and with buses connecting to trains and other buses. The number of bus routes is a measure of service complexity and dilution of bus service quality; frequency needs to be concentrated in a few bus routes for services to always be coming soon.

Improved Rail Services. Trains to Springfield would run every 15-minutes all day, permitting Ipswich trains to run express, all day every day. This saves 8 minutes of travel time between Ipswich-Brisbane CBD and it means a bus interchange can be built at Indooroopilly Rail station allowing residents to bypass Coronation Drive congestion. Express trains take just 8 minutes to travel between Indooroopilly Rail Station and Roma Street Station, avoiding Coronation Drive congestion and unreliability. In contrast, BUZ 444 departing Indooroopilly Shopping Centre takes 17 minutes for the same journey and can get caught in congestion. Kippa Ring line opening will see 15 minute all day trains as far as Petrie and frequent train service would be extended by one station to Murrarie on the Cleveland Line to connect with CITYCONNECTOR buses.

More Buses More Often. New all-day Hi-Frequency bus services would be extended into Albany Creek (359 to Mitchelton Station), The Centenary Suburbs (400 CentenaryGlider via Coronation Drive), Bulimba (230 BulimbaGlider via Riding and Thynne Rd), Ashgrove (380 The Gap) and Yeronga (196 Yeronga). Service upgrades by 'topping up' existing near-frequent service to Stafford (375 Stafford City), Toombul (300 Toombul) and Logan Road (175 Garden City).

Limited Interchange at Key Interchange Points (KIPs). These locations would receive distinctive stops and upgraded signage. Most people will experience no need to connect and will not have to do anything as their bus will continue to transit straight through these KIPs on an unbroken journey to the CBD. Generally, passengers on services originating north of Chermside, East of Carindale and West of Indooroopilly may be asked to change. As space for CBD buses is very scarce, services that carry low volumes of passengers into the Brisbane CBD may also be asked to change. Extended service to new parts of the city is mathematically not possible without this change to the network.

Uses existing resources more efficiently by recycling wasteful and inefficient bus routing in the current BCC bus network, keeping a lid on fares while growing patronage and fare revenue.

Proposal does not depend on BaT, new busways, new rail lines or the construction of major and expensive infrastructure. As a planning reform it may be implemented rapidly within 12-48 months. Of course this depends on co-operation,  willingness and preparation of the bus operator(s) to make the required changes.

Managed to find the banner for this in the blogs section...

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

Replace Great Circle Line bus with smart CityConnector routes? > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11047.msg148532#msg148532 ... #qldpol #busreform

Bus Reform Survey at New URL, a few replies already! ---> http://tiny.cc/busreform

Much easier to remember. If you haven't filled out the survey, please do!

#BusReform

Quote from: ozbob on November 07, 2014, 03:27:04 AM
Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

Replace Great Circle Line bus with smart CityConnector routes? > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11047.msg148532#msg148532 ... #qldpol #busreform

I reckon the city connector logo would be complete if you had a curved dotted red line connecting the Os.

I found a little story about the GCL on the forum from a while ago: Eye opener!!

Re: The joys of the Great Circle Line
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8740.msg103873#msg103873

Quote from: LD Transit on November 06, 2014, 15:44:49 PM

QuoteCongratulations all, and I'm glad that I was able to provide some critical review using my training that I got at TransLink years ago.

Thanks. It is an embarrassment that not one,  but two government agencies were not able to come up with a rational plan after TWO bus reviews with all the $ and expertise, and we can do the same thing ourself for FREE.

I actually think TransLink did a pretty decent job of a formal network review of BT last year (bar some oddities that needed tending to).   I honestly think TransLink is itching to get stuck into BT, in fact I know that they have been itching to get stuck into BT for years and fix their horrid network, but have had their hands tied by BCC and the Qld Govt for far too long.  Really need to get those shackles off them and let them do what they are there for, to plan bus routes and create a proper network - which is what they did nearly a decade ago when they totally changed up the outer regions, with proper consultation and little fuss from the operators and local governments I should say.

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

Citizen lead bus reform > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11047.0 ... #qldpol #auspol #springst #nswpol #sapol #wapol we care ...

Sorry, I've not had time to look at this until today. In general, a very good proposal.
A few comments:
- I think there needs to be a high frequency route from CBD, RBWH, Grange, Webster Rd, serving Stafford City, Prince Charles Hospital, terminating at Chermside. Would create additional coverage, and better access to PCH which is poorly served.
- Centenary Suburbs Hi Freq route with one end at Darra is a very good proposal.
- Removing the 390 would result on a lot of pitchforks! There is no bus routes between Normanby/QUT/KGS on Kelvin Grove Rd to North West suburbs/Samford Rd corridor in this proposal. This is a significant 'single seat' traffic corridor.
- More info on CBD Stops required.

Any chance of a Brizcommuter special post? 

Free promo material! (image):

QuoteSorry, I've not had time to look at this until today. In general, a very good proposal.

Fill out the survey if you can

QuoteA few comments:
- I think there needs to be a high frequency route from CBD, RBWH, Grange, Webster Rd, serving Stafford City, Prince Charles Hospital, terminating at Chermside. Would create additional coverage, and better access to PCH which is poorly served.

The RBOT 346 bus route could be amplified in the future. It runs just behind the PCH.

Quote- Centenary Suburbs Hi Freq route with one end at Darra is a very good proposal.

Credits to Gazza and James.

Quote- Removing the 390 would result on a lot of pitchforks! There is no bus routes between Normanby/QUT/KGS on Kelvin Grove Rd to North West suburbs/Samford Rd corridor in this proposal. This is a significant 'single seat' traffic corridor.

Ask James about this one. I think the FG line could be boosted with rail on weekends as well and KG passengers can change at Alderly (probably needs to be declared a KIP in that case). There are also buses every 5 min or better from QUT KG to Roma St where one can get the FG train.

Quote- More info on CBD Stops required.

City stops are indicative as it was far too complex to handle. Anyone who wants to tackle that one can post!

I'm trying to scrape together some images/video of these superbuses that are in operation. They are being used on ordinary streets. St. Gallen in Switzerland has them but they have the electric trolley bus version.

Here is a promo video from MAN, mindblowing, imagine that turning up as Hi 400 CentenaryGlider?

Media release 9th November 2014

SEQ: Who is driving the bus?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said it is time that TransLink was given full and proper authority for public transport planning in Brisbane and  SEQ (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"In 2010, the then Lord Mayor of Brisbane Campbell Newman wanted the State Government to run buses (1).  Now is your big chance Premier."

"As was reported in the Courier Mail Premier Newman was upset that 'Buses . . . are full when they leave Eight Mile Plains and the problem is they go past all these stops down the line where Brisbane ratepayers – people who have contributed to the service – can't get on.' This highlights the basic problem with BCC - they do not see themselves as part of a proper integrated network. Other operators do."

"Bus reform will deliver more frequent and affordable services for all.  The key though is that TransLink must be able to do network planning free from petty Council politics."

"Brisbane needs better frequent affordable public transport. It must now be properly integrated with public transport throughout SEQ (2, 3, 4, 5).  Brisbane City is no longer surrounded by market gardens."

References:

1. Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants State Government to run buses
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/campbell-newman-wants-state-government-to-run-buses/story-e6freoof-1225839337936

2. 5 Nov 2014: Brisbane Bus Reform: New Bus Network Proposal
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11046.0

3. Brisbane buses: Call for CityGlider in Centenary suburbs
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-buses-call-for-cityglider-in-centenary-suburbs-20141105-11gxl3.html

4. Scrap the Great Circuit Bus line and begin again: expert
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/scrap-the-great-circuit-bus-line-and-begin-again-expert-20141105-11hi9n.html

5. Interview 4BC Drive - ' Filling black holes '
http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-drive-audio-blog/filling-black-holes/20141105-3jo7e.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

' Brisbane, no longer surrounded by market gardens .. ' > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11061.0 ... #qldpol #busreform #teamcommunity



===============

^ pic ' View of Ashgrove, Brisbane, in 1929 '

Quote from: LD Transit on November 08, 2014, 21:33:36 PM

Quote- Removing the 390 would result on a lot of pitchforks! There is no bus routes between Normanby/QUT/KGS on Kelvin Grove Rd to North West suburbs/Samford Rd corridor in this proposal. This is a significant 'single seat' traffic corridor.

Ask James about this one. I think the FG line could be boosted with rail on weekends as well and KG passengers can change at Alderly (probably needs to be declared a KIP in that case). There are also buses every 5 min or better from QUT KG to Roma St where one can get the FG train.

Right, so someone who would travel from QUT Kelvin Grove (Kelvin Grove Rd Stops) or Kelvin Grove High  on the 390 to Enoggera/Wardell Intersection would currently have a daytime average wait of 7.5mins, and journey time of 12 mins = 19.5mins.

With no 390, they would have to wait 7.5mins for a 345, journey time of 9 mins, 2 min interchange, wait for another average of 7.5mins, and a journey time of 2 mins = 28mins. If they went via Roma Street, it would take on average 34.5mins.

There is a reason why TransLink kept the 390 in it's network plan. It serves a very different journey market to the FG Line and 345.

even translink saw it fit to keep it in service in thier bus review...as a secondary service is just about right imho...it must serve some other purpose if both BT and translink keep it in service regardless of it mirroring the ferny grove line....briz is right on this one.....

Don't look at me. Whole thing was open for everyone to have their say and the majority was 390 was to go. I put to keep it, but others did not and they were in the majority. 345 was thus boosted to 12 min frequency all day and the remainder used to upgrade service elsewhere (359 for example). TL review occurred before the upgrade of the FG line to 15 min frequency IIRC.

A lot of the development of the BCC bus network as a redundancy for rail can be explained by low frequency trains - which is why the two systems are almost independant, and this in turn has to do with the two staff per train IMHO as it is costly to add more train service, so for a long time rail frequencies were only operated at background levels, hence an environment grew where buses were run independently.

One of the problems with evaluating any proposal is to figure out where to set the boundaries of 'the firm'. While it may be costly to move the network to DOO (via ATP etc) one has to ask if the QLD gov's analysis also accounted for the money that would be saved from not having to run an isolated/separated bus network.... my suspicion is that this has never been factored in QR's calculations as they set the boundaries of the system as 'just rail' when this is a mistake - people need to go where ever they are going, no matter what vehicles are involved, the government is paying for both, a bus network with less duplication is therefore an avoided cost or a benefit when DOO/ATP is done and so that should be factored in any BCR analysis of DOO for rail... because the government is paying for both out of the same pot ultimately.

Quote from: BrizCommuter on November 09, 2014, 08:51:32 AMRight, so someone who would travel from QUT Kelvin Grove (Kelvin Grove Rd Stops) or Kelvin Grove High  on the 390 to Enoggera/Wardell Intersection would currently have a daytime average wait of 7.5mins, and journey time of 12 mins = 19.5mins.

With no 390, they would have to wait 7.5mins for a 345, journey time of 9 mins, 2 min interchange, wait for another average of 7.5mins, and a journey time of 2 mins = 28mins. If they went via Roma Street, it would take on average 34.5mins.

There is a reason why TransLink kept the 390 in it's network plan. It serves a very different journey market to the FG Line and 345.

First and foremost, lets break down the 390's routing. The 390:
- Duplicates the 345 for 5.3km (Roma St to Samford Rd turn-off)
- Runs along Samford Rd for 3.0km (no more than 400m walk from the railway line at any point, with no significant topographical challenges)
- Does a little loop to get to Brookside for 800m.

Being realistic, the only objections are going to come from the 3.0km Samford Rd stretch. Breaking down the patronage demand:
- Between Kelvin Grove Rd and Wardell St is a distance of ~1km along Samford Road. Most passengers are probably going to walk to the 345 if you remove transport here.
- Between Wardell St and Osborne Rd is a distance of ~1.7km along Samford Rd. This is probably the part of the route where people are most likely to explode into fits of rage because there is no frequent bus nearby. Rail is still generally within walking distance. It is worth pointing out that a fair amount of the catchment area is eaten up by the Enoggera Military Camp.
- The 300m between Osborne Rd and Blackwood St is so minor I don't think is an issue.

In terms of patronage, you have three groups of people using this service:
1. City-bound passengers
2. Kelvin Grove-bound passengers (mostly Uni/school students)
3. Brookside-bound passengers

City-bound passengers along Samford Rd will use the train, which is between 6 minutes slower (at 6am on a Saturday morning) and 10 minutes faster (in PM peak), and on average is 1 minute faster (taking a time at 12pm on a weekday) from Roma St to Brookside. Trip time improves significantly if you compare trip times from Central/Adelaide St to Brookside. So roughly the same transit. City-bound passengers indifferent to service removal.

Kelvin Grove-bound will get a slightly faster trip to Alderley, but then lose this in transfer penalty. University and school students adversely affected by service removal.

Brookside-bound passengers are a lot more flexible, because if one can't shop at one shopping centre, they will generally just go to another. This is also probably the only case where passengers from Kelvin Grove Road would be against cutting the 390 (aside from being too lazy to walk to express stops). Samford Rd pax can use rail, KG Road pax would need to transfer. Brookside-bound passengers may be adversely affected.

Alright, so through quick analysis we've realised it is students (High School and University) most adversely affected. A few points:
1. University and school students are some of the most inelastic demanders of PT. Parking at QUT KG is expensive and difficult to find, and school students often don't have cars at all. If getting to Kelvin Grove State College is an issue, a school bus could be run in school peak.
2. These students are some of the most able-bodied people in our communities. I regularly walk 1km to get to my nearest frequent route, why can't these people do that too?
3. Demand for this link does not exist on weekends. Samford Rd/Brookside is not a student hub and the 390 does not link to any significant student hub aside from destinations already connected by the 345.
4. University students are too apathetic to put up petitions and so forth. Personally I would be more concerned about a granny in a wheelchair on Kelvin Grove Road who's been going to Brookside for the last 50 years than 50 uni students who live on Samford Rd. Mainly because the granny has a sob story and the Uni students do not.

Personally, I think the 390 fits into the same basket as routes like the 174/175, 204 and 370. Back when Cityxpress was mostly half-hourly interpeak (if it existed at all), you needed these routes which were effectively BUZes to cater to the demand of these major corridors. When BCC started BUZing Cityxpress routes, instead of doing the sensible thing and reducing these all-stops routes to half-hourly or hourly, they have not modified them in any way. This is the reason why routes like the 390 have timetables which have been hardly changed in over 10-15 years.

That was a long post, but that's the reason why I opted to cut the 390. The only passengers who are negatively affected by a service cut are Uni students, and they can walk/use other services anyway. I mean, Uni students use routes like the 414 in great numbers, I don't think an extra 500m walking or transfer will deter them from using PT/encourage them to find a park at QUT KG, which is hugely expensive/difficult in the first place.

Translink probably chose to retain it as a basic secondary for fear of pitchforks and act as a basic coverage service for residents south of samford to avoid them having to walk further to the rail stations...
translinks review for this section wardell,enoggera,samford rds was pretty much spot on "coverage" wise
s110 ashgrove to mitchelton(lloyd st) and s114 mitchelton to city (old 390)...

the LDT survey should tell us if passengers prefer basic coverage over frequency/further walks....

Quote from: James on November 09, 2014, 12:08:17 PM

Alright, so through quick analysis we've realised it is students (High School and University) most adversely affected. A few points:
1. University and school students are some of the most inelastic demanders of PT. Parking at QUT KG is expensive and difficult to find, and school students often don't have cars at all. If getting to Kelvin Grove State College is an issue, a school bus could be run in school peak.
2. These students are some of the most able-bodied people in our communities. I regularly walk 1km to get to my nearest frequent route, why can't these people do that too?
3. Demand for this link does not exist on weekends. Samford Rd/Brookside is not a student hub and the 390 does not link to any significant student hub aside from destinations already connected by the 345.
4. University students are too apathetic to put up petitions and so forth. Personally I would be more concerned about a granny in a wheelchair on Kelvin Grove Road who's been going to Brookside for the last 50 years than 50 uni students who live on Samford Rd. Mainly because the granny has a sob story and the Uni students do not.

Personally, I think the 390 fits into the same basket as routes like the 174/175, 204 and 370. Back when Cityxpress was mostly half-hourly interpeak (if it existed at all), you needed these routes which were effectively BUZes to cater to the demand of these major corridors. When BCC started BUZing Cityxpress routes, instead of doing the sensible thing and reducing these all-stops routes to half-hourly or hourly, they have not modified them in any way. This is the reason why routes like the 390 have timetables which have been hardly changed in over 10-15 years.

That was a long post, but that's the reason why I opted to cut the 390. The only passengers who are negatively affected by a service cut are Uni students, and they can walk/use other services anyway. I mean, Uni students use routes like the 414 in great numbers, I don't think an extra 500m walking or transfer will deter them from using PT/encourage them to find a park at QUT KG, which is hugely expensive/difficult in the first place.

I assume you don't use the 390 do you James? Do you even know the area?
BrizCommuter used to use the 390 on approx. 50% of commutes (not any longer due to change of work location), and has observed its usage on and off for nearly 8 years. Removing it would heavily inconvenience:
- QUT Kelvin Grove University students from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
- Kelvin Grove High students (note this school has "shift" starts and finishes and thus school traffic is spread over a long period) from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
- CACI students from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
* The above can be approx. 60% of the load on some services*
- Anyone wanting an all stops service on Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor (both short distance trips and from end points) - typically senior users, or mums+prams.
- Brookside passengers (both workers and shoppers) generally from Mitchelton, Gaythorne, Enoggera, and Alderley catchments.

It should also be noted that in the am peak the 390 often has full loads, even at 10mins frequency. Off-peak loadings are often pretty good. Whilst not a reason to keep it, it is also very useful when the FG line goes belly up (or is closed).

I also would not agree with your statement that university students are apathetic. OK, they don't riot over politics like in other countries, but the fact that a high percentage of RailBOT users are students rather counteracts that comment. Also, school kids parents are often not apathetic if their precious kiddies are inconvenienced! Removing 390 would equal too many political pitchforks, and we all know what happens if there are too many pitchforks.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the overall bus proposals are very good. However, local knowledge of how people use public transport is important in route planning. This is something that is not as easily available to RailBOT members as it was to TransLink during their abandoned bus route plans.

Feel free to spill your guts in the survey. All views welcome!

Promote the survey if you can, free promo images already up to use in Facebook feeds etc. http://tiny.cc/busreform

Quote from: BrizCommuter on November 09, 2014, 16:56:41 PMI assume you don't use the 390 do you James? Do you even know the area?
BrizCommuter used to use the 390 on approx. 50% of commutes (not any longer due to change of work location), and has observed its usage on and off for nearly 8 years. Removing it would heavily inconvenience:
- QUT Kelvin Grove University students from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
- Kelvin Grove High students (note this school has "shift" starts and finishes and thus school traffic is spread over a long period) from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
- CACI students from Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor.
* The above can be approx. 60% of the load on some services*
- Anyone wanting an all stops service on Kelvin Grove/Enoggera/Samford Rd corridor (both short distance trips and from end points) - typically senior users, or mums+prams.
- Brookside passengers (both workers and shoppers) generally from Mitchelton, Gaythorne, Enoggera, and Alderley catchments.

It should also be noted that in the am peak the 390 often has full loads, even at 10mins frequency. Off-peak loadings are often pretty good. Whilst not a reason to keep it, it is also very useful when the FG line goes belly up (or is closed).

I also would not agree with your statement that university students are apathetic. OK, they don't riot over politics like in other countries, but the fact that a high percentage of RailBOT users are students rather counteracts that comment. Also, school kids parents are often not apathetic if their precious kiddies are inconvenienced! Removing 390 would equal too many political pitchforks, and we all know what happens if there are too many pitchforks.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the overall bus proposals are very good. However, local knowledge of how people use public transport is important in route planning. This is something that is not as easily available to RailBOT members as it was to TransLink during there abandoned bus route plans.

James uses the 390, primarily in the evenings (as he is otherwise at University/work during the daytime and has little need to head north during the day), and has generally found loadings on the service to be poor (~7 pax) - much lower than those on an equivalent 345 service.

First and foremost, the argument to keep the 390 is only valid for passengers coming from Samford Rd. Passengers on Kelvin Grove Rd will just use 345s (or a short-running sweeper service originating from somewhere like Alderley in peak hour).

Uni students can simply interchange. Uni students are an inflexible PT demander - they can't drive to Uni (parking is prohibitively expensive and in short supply) and often lack the financial means to commute in any other method. I mean, for all we bag the 414 and its ghastly routing, it does so well it actually requires peak sweeper services and gets 2-3x as many passengers than its Citybus equivalent, the 415, from personal observation and taking trips on the 414. This is because unless you get to UQ before 8am, you can't park at Uni, and often students don't have cars. So if this hourly urban safari weekday only route manages to get as many as 15-20 passengers at 12pm on a weekday, I'm sure most Uni students will just use 345 + train.

School students can catch school buses - just put on a bus to match each school start/finish time. School students are not a reason to retain a bus service.

All-stops services are a moot point if you have proper stop spacing (in the order of stops every ~800m). I do concede we screw pax bound for Brookside who live on Kelvin Grove Rd (again, Samford Rd pax can catch the train).

If the good loadings are from Samford Rd (as in, >14 pax per service from Samford Rd alone heading to QUT KG/KG schools only), fine, there may be a case to keep the 390. But from what I can see, the demand for travel to the Kelvin Grove activity generators comes mostly from Kelvin Grove Rd, which can be filled by the 345 and does not require an additional route on different frequency/cycle.

I just simply cannot support a high-frequency 390 service running every 15 minutes from 6am - 9pm 7 days a week which is more or less totally duplicated (by train + 345) while people all over Brisbane (and wider SEQ) are crying out for frequent bus services.

Mercedes Benz also has a bus, Citaro, but for real mass transit, there is also the 'CapaCity' (get it, lol). This goes up to 190 pax in the bus, I doubt that we will need that, maybe only on route 66; would have to be pre-paid, but on the other hand, many cities do just that.



Tech Specs http://www.mercedes-benz.com.sg/content/singapore/mpc/mpc_singapore_website/enng/home_mpc/bus/home/new_buses/models/regular_service_busses/capacity_2_0/facts/technical_data.html