Badgerys Creek railway

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Badgerys Creek railway mapped out as Tony Abbott promises airport decision

The state government has started to map out plans to extend Sydney's train system to a potential second airport site at Badgerys Creek in anticipation of a decision to approve the site.

But the state's plans for a train line to Badgerys Creek could put it at odds with the federal government, if it decides it wants to build an airport in western Sydney without first building a rail connection.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott indicated on Wednesday his government would soon make a decision on Badgerys Creek ...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/badgerys-creek-railway-mapped-out-as-tony-abbott-promises-airport-decision-20140205-3211n.html

[ozbob]

Greenfield construction is a much better option than brownfield, something we still struggle with here in Queensland ...

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Costly airport express rail link for Badgerys Creek sure to test state-federal relations

A separate express train line would be needed if people were to travel by rail to a Badgerys Creek airport, not a simple extension of Sydney's existing train system, says one of the authors of the major study in support of the airport site.

The Abbott government is poised to announce its support for a Badgerys Creek airport in western Sydney within weeks. Determining who pays for the transport links to the airport is almost certain to emerge as a source of tension between the federal and state governments before the airport is built.

But Peter Thornton, a former general manager of infrastructure at the engineering firm WorleyParsons who worked on a federal-state study into the airport site, says a rail line to the airport may not be required for many years. But if a line were built, he said, it would need to be an express service and not a simple extension of the south-west rail link that runs close to Badgerys Creek.

''If the government actually does decide to look at Badgerys Creek, we are not going to see a twin runway, 70 million passenger per annum airport built there,'' Mr Thornton told an audience at the University of Sydney on Tuesday.

Mr Thornton was one of the main participants in a study between 2010 and 2012 on future airport sites for Sydney.

That study, commissioned by then transport minister Anthony Albanese, recommended Badgerys Creek as by far the best option for another Sydney airport, though no government has been prepared to back one yet ...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/costly-airport-express-rail-link-for-badgerys-creek-sure-to-test-statefederal-relations-20140318-350ex.html

[SurfRail]

^ I think this was the guy making absurd claims about running trains all stations to the city.  If you extended the SWRL, you would only need to run all stations to Glenfield then you could run express to Wolli Creek (maybe stopping at Revesby as well).  The quad to Revesby permits that right now, no trouble.

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Tony Abbott confirms Badgerys Creek as site of second Sydney airport

[Mozz]

The announcement from the Prime Minister was absolutely clear that transport in relation to the new airport would be sorted before the airport was operational and then went on to articulate that ROADS would be built and in place before any airport was functional... tonight the Infrastructure Minister basically said that the Federal govt wasn't responsible for rail and he was pretty sure that NSW government want rail in the western suburbs .. so it appears that more black tarmac for vehicles is the answer for more black tarmac for aircraft....

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Badgerys Creek politics still a threat to Sydney's second airport

[ozbob]

In the 1970's I was based (Army) at Ingleburn for a while. We often went on long runs around the area towards Badgerys Creek.  In those days sparsely settled areas generally but a bit different today.  There was a talk of the airport back then.  As befits most infrastructure in Australia it is only done as an expensive afterthought, many years after when it should and could have been economically constructed.

I am of the view that this is not a lay down misere yet.  Rail will be needed, more details in the next day or so I understand.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> How Abbott duped the people of western Sydney over Badgerys Creek

[curator49]

Tony Abbott must have had a bad expeience with rail when a child as he so dead-set against any type of rail solution no matter how important it is to the Nation's infrastructure. A rail link to Badgerys Creek is a "No-brainer" but all Tony Abbott "promises" are roads, roads, roads and even more roads. 

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Tony Abbott confirms billions in road funding to support second Sydney airport at Badgerys Creek

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has announced $2.9 billion in new roads spending over the next eight years to support the construction of a new airport at Badgerys Creek, with NSW pitching in 20 per cent of the cost.

The announcement follows from Mr Abbott confirming yesterday that the Coalition cabinet had signed off on building the much-debated airport at the site 50 kilometres west of Sydney's CBD.

Construction of the airport is expected to begin in 2016 and will spur the creation of up to 4000 construction jobs at its peak.

NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell was expected to appear with Mr Abbott, but pulled out and then announced he was resigning as premier over revelations at the Independent Commission against Corruption.

Mr Abbott told a media conference at Liverpool Council on Wednesday that the funding was an 'growth package' for western Sydney.

The plan includes several major Sydney road upgrades, including expansion of The Northern Road to four lanes from Narellan Road to the M4.

The Prime Minister said Elizabeth Drive from the M7 to the Northern Road would be upgraded to "a very high standard" and there would also be an urgent overhaul of Bringelly Road to increase the thoroughfare to four lanes from Camden Valley Way to the Northern Road.

Mr Abbott said the NSW government would also immediately move to secure the rail corridor from the south-west rail link to Penrith, but Wednesday's announcement included no funding details for such a proposal.

"These are vital pieces of road infrastructure and what they mean is that the announcement yesterday is not just an announcement about an airport, it is an announcement about jobs and infrastructure for western Sydney," Mr Abbott said.

"This is a jobs and infrastructure package.

"There will be 4000 jobs in the short-term on road construction and over time, thanks to the development associated with the new airport, we believe there will be at least 60,000 more jobs in western Sydney."

Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss said the government was attracted to the idea of including a rail link in the airport's design, but signalled that Badgerys Creek could open without a completed rail station.

He said any railway connection could be built under the runways, with space for an underground station.

"This line, though, will be built not essentially to service the airport, it will be built to service the people of western Sydney and the residential areas of western Sydney," Mr Truss said.

"It is going to start as a modest airport operation.

"It is difficult to justify the cost of a railway line, specifically to service the airport at an initial stage. If you look at the experience around Australia, Melbourne doesn't yet have a railway line to its airport. When an airport is starting small, usually the railway comes along later on."

Earlier on Wednesday, Labor's transport spokesman Anthony Albanese, who supports a second airport at Badgerys Creek, warned that a major airport at Badgerys Creek would not be viable without a rail link to Sydney's CBD.

He attacked Mr Abbott's "ideological objection" to rail and said a rail connection between the two airports and to the greater western line was essential.

"This has got to be not just about the airport," Mr Albanese said.

"It's got to be about jobs and economic development of related industries and innovation in western Sydney - part of that has to be a rail line. I don't understand this ideological objection that Tony Abbott has to rail.

"You need rail as well as road in order for this airport to work."

Mr Albanese was less forthcoming on Tuesday on the question of 24-hour operation.

"These issues will be examined in the environmental impact statement," he said.

"It's important that the community's views on these issues be taken into account."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-confirms-billions-in-road-funding-to-support-second-sydney-airport-at-badgerys-creek-20140416-zqvc7.html

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Federal government plans for airport rail line but will not build it

[ozbob]

TTF --> Badgerys Airport Needs Roads And Rail

BADGERYS AIRPORT NEEDS ROADS AND RAIL

A Badgerys Creek airport needs both road and rail links to connect it to Sydney Airport and the wider Sydney transport network, according to peak national industry body Tourism & Transport Forum (TTF).

TTF Chief Executive Ken Morrison said it's essential to fund and build both transport modes.

"Today's $3.5 billion roads package for Western Sydney is very welcome, but the lack of commitment to a rail link to Badgerys Creek is hard to understand," Mr Morrison said.

"It makes no sense the built a new airport in Western Sydney which is not connected to Sydney's rail system.

"While the road upgrades are vital, it's important to remember that not only will the airport drive increased traffic, but also that Sydney's South West will be home to an additional 300,000 people over the next 20 years.

"Our concern that the federal government's policy of not investing in urban rail would skew funding priorities seems to be borne out by today's announcement.

"Reserving the corridor and enabling work for the rail link is not enough – especially with no funding attached.

"The rail link needs to be an integral part of the airport construction process and should be completed and operational when the airport opens.

"This will ensure easy access not only for passengers, but also for the thousands of people who will work at the airport.

"Without a rail link, those people will be forced to drive to the airport adding to growing congestion in the area.

"Roads alone cannot solve existing congestion problems or cater for the growing population in Sydney's west and changing people's travel behaviour is notoriously difficult.

"An airport at Badgerys Creek will be far more effective with a train link to Sydney Airport and the CBD.

"In addition, the airport rail link must connect to the Western line to provide quick and easy access to people from centres like Parramatta, Blacktown and Penrith."

<ENDS>

[#Metro]

Some observations:

1. The airport has not been built and when it is, it is likely to be small and not busy. Given that mode shares for rail to any Australian airport is within the range 0-20%, and the amount of traffic at least initially going to this new airport is likely to be low, a rail line built immediately would probably have low patronage to begin with, AND low frequency.

2. A rail extension will take time to plan, fund and construct. It is easily 5-10 years away. Precedents include Avalon (no rail), Melbourne Airport (no rail), Gold Coast Airport (no rail), Adelaide Airport (no rail), Perth Airport (no rail), Hobart Airport (no rail) and Canberra Airport (no rail).

3. History would suggest that a rail link is unlikely to be built immediately or even in the near future. For that you'd need to show that there would be enough pax to justify at least half hourly or perhaps even more than that demand to be worth building an extension. This might not happen for some time.

4. Based on the above, and at the risk of saying something unpopular, it is likely that the first PT link would be performed by buses, both as connectors to rail, connectors to the surrounding town centres and perhaps express to the Sydney CBD as well. A de novo case for rail at the beginning or modal choice based on technical grounds has NOT been made nor has sufficient airport patronage been demonstrated.

[petey3801]

But, as I understand it, the new South West Rail Link terminates not too far away from the Airport site. Wouldn't it be smartest to simply extend that when the Airport is being built? Then later on down the track, extend it over to the Main West, but that's not for some time as yet.

[#Metro]

What is the location of the airport terminal building and what are the nearest train stations? I think it is all a but uncertain at this stage to be certain about a particular mode and the value of its construction. One thing is certain though, roads will come first for practical reasons and this should not be interpreted as some repudiation of PT.

[ozbob]

I remember in the 1970s the imminent construction of this airport.  I would not be surprised if it is never built.

According to the SMH yarn above, all earthworks, tunnels, station cavity, will be done if the airport is constructed. 

Sydney is a road basket case.   I am glad I can avoid it as a rule ..

[joninbrisbane]

But, as I understand it, the new South West Rail Link terminates not too far away from the Airport site. Wouldn't it be smartest to simply extend that when the Airport is being built? Then later on down the track, extend it over to the Main West, but that's not for some time as yet.

Yes, Leppington is quite a distance from Badgery's Creek.  I believe that's the plan - i.e. to extend it further west to Rossmore etc then north to the airport and on to the Main West.

I think it ridiculous not to build the railway at the same time!  If not for the sake of the airport, for S.W. Sydney.  The area is growing fast!  It just shows how ridiculous Tony's no-rail ideology is. 

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

TTF --> Badgerys Airport Needs Roads And Rail

BADGERYS AIRPORT NEEDS ROADS AND RAIL

A Badgerys Creek airport needs both road and rail links to connect it to Sydney Airport and the wider Sydney transport network, according to peak national industry body Tourism & Transport Forum (TTF).

TTF Chief Executive Ken Morrison said it's essential to fund and build both transport modes.

"Today's $3.5 billion roads package for Western Sydney is very welcome, but the lack of commitment to a rail link to Badgerys Creek is hard to understand," Mr Morrison said.

"It makes no sense the built a new airport in Western Sydney which is not connected to Sydney's rail system.

"While the road upgrades are vital, it's important to remember that not only will the airport drive increased traffic, but also that Sydney's South West will be home to an additional 300,000 people over the next 20 years.

"Our concern that the federal government's policy of not investing in urban rail would skew funding priorities seems to be borne out by today's announcement.

"Reserving the corridor and enabling work for the rail link is not enough – especially with no funding attached.

"The rail link needs to be an integral part of the airport construction process and should be completed and operational when the airport opens.

"This will ensure easy access not only for passengers, but also for the thousands of people who will work at the airport.

"Without a rail link, those people will be forced to drive to the airport adding to growing congestion in the area.

"Roads alone cannot solve existing congestion problems or cater for the growing population in Sydney's west and changing people's travel behaviour is notoriously difficult.

"An airport at Badgerys Creek will be far more effective with a train link to Sydney Airport and the CBD.

"In addition, the airport rail link must connect to the Western line to provide quick and easy access to people from centres like Parramatta, Blacktown and Penrith."

<ENDS>

Spot on ^ TTF ...

[ozbob]

LD, subscribe to @131500buses   just an never ending story of delays to road congestion, all over.

If fact Badgerys Creek is a never ending story ... cue!

[#Metro]

There's nothing wrong with long term planning. But if you decide the mode and that it is required on day one of operation and neither the airport nor patronage of airport figures exits, that's very uncertain. History is a good guide. It will be a while before rail to that airport will appear and there are no patronage figures either.

Things worth knowing

1. Location of airport terminal building
2. Which line it will connect to
3. Relative travel times to Sydney CBD for different modes
4. Cost of line construction, NPV, BCR etc. Current costs for Lepptington rail extension is running at around $120 million/km.
5. Patronage of the airport and estimated daily traffic demand

Not such a clear cut case yet. Rail extension costs to the airport are likely to be very high and numbers of pax carried in absolute terms, very very low.

UPDATE: It appears to be a good 16 km to Badgery's Ck from Leppington. $120 million x 16 = $1.9 billion ballpark cost for line extension. Even assuming 50% cost reduction, the line is likely to cost around $1 billion.

ref http://news.smh.com.au/national/new-136b-rail-link-on-time-iemma-20080306-1xe9.html

[ozbob]

^ Pax low.  Not in western Sydney ...  if the airport is built I have no doubt that a railway will be part of it.

[#Metro]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/tony-abbott-says-badgerys-creek-to-get-29bn-to-upgrade-surrounding-roads

A spokeswoman from the department of infrastructure told Guardian Australia: "The Australian government has a clear position that urban public transport is a responsibility of state governments.

"Allowances for a future rail connection will be incorporated into the design of an airport at Badgerys Creek. Patronage at the airport in the early years would not justify a dedicated rail link.

"When warranted, the rail link would likely involve an extension of the south-west rail link continuing north to join with the Western Line."

No rail for a while it seems.

[joninbrisbane]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/tony-abbott-says-badgerys-creek-to-get-29bn-to-upgrade-surrounding-roads

A spokeswoman from the department of infrastructure told Guardian Australia: "The Australian government has a clear position that urban public transport is a responsibility of state governments.

"Allowances for a future rail connection will be incorporated into the design of an airport at Badgerys Creek. Patronage at the airport in the early years would not justify a dedicated rail link.

"When warranted, the rail link would likely involve an extension of the south-west rail link continuing north to join with the Western Line."

No rail for a while it seems.

Which is a big shame. 

My opinion is it should be built now, encourage the use of feeders to the new line, and have t-way connection to Parramatta/Liverpool.

Remember, the railway isn't just useful for travellers, especially since it won't be a dedicated airport railway.  It'd be useful for airport transfers (KSIA - BGRY) , airport workers, airline staff/crew.

The city isn't always the destination. 

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

ALP support rail from the outset. In the time frames postulated it is highly likely that Tony will be gone on the next bus to political obscurity ..

[joninbrisbane]

ALP support rail from the outset. In the time frames postulated it is highly likely that Tony will be gone on the next bus to political obscurity ..

Let's hope that that bus gets lost in the wilderness after he gets on.

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

The line will be a loop from Leppo through the airport and onto the western line.  The airport is only part of the story.  The massive population expansions in the west mean it will be needed. 

People in the western parts will be quite happy to go to the Creek ...

[James]

IMHO, in order to make Badgerys Creek work as an airport, Mascot needs some severe restrictions put on it and Badgerys Creek needs a HSR link which goes Sydney - BC within one hour by the time it opens.

The 'second airport' problem can be observed right across the world. Tokyo is a good example. It has Haneda and Narita. Narita only gets all the international traffic because airlines were forced to shift out there - but once it was established, it was alright. But note that there are numerous HSR links to Narita.

By comparison, look at Ciudad Real Airport near Madrid. It was out in the sticks while Madrid-Barajas kept operating full steam ahead. The consequence? Ciudad flopped on a huge scale. Now I don't think Badgerys Creek will flop so magnificently, but without serious restrictions on Mascot and proper transit links to the CBD/Parramatta, there will be a big problem when it comes to attracting traffic.

Gold Coast only does well due to the distance between the two cities, and the fact it registers as another city. That, and BAC's extortionate landing fees. There's a reason Tiger (and to a lesser extent, Jetstar) avoided Brisbane for a long time.

[#Metro]

If the new Airport is so great, why don't airlines voluntarily move there rather than being forced?
Could it be that it's just closer and more convenient at Mascot? I would think so.

The Airport is going to be small in its initial stages. Airport construction is also likely to inhibit residential development in the land immediately surrounding the Airport due to traffic and noise as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_International_Airport

Using Canberra as a reference, CBR had 3.2 million passenger movements in 2011. Assuming everybody used public transport (100% mode share, no cars or anything else), this is equal to around the same patronage as BUZ 199 in one year.

Melbourne's SkyBus supershuttle carries ~ 2 million pax per year.

Nothing wrong with rail, but not worth spending $1 BN to have rail open on day one. The site is not on the way to anything yet. Bus will be required from the start, congestion or not.

[joninbrisbane]

Again, the area is growing fast. 

Rail may not be required at the airport right away, but if we're advocating for mode shift and behavior change why shouldn't it be built through the region?  The cost is only going to go up.

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

[Jonno]

If the new Airport is so great, why don't airlines voluntarily move there rather than being forced?
Could it be that it's just closer and more convenient at Mascot? I would think so.

The Airport is going to be small in its initial stages. Airport construction is also likely to inhibit residential development in the land immediately surrounding the Airport due to traffic and noise as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_International_Airport

Using Canberra as a reference, CBR had 3.2 million passenger movements in 2011. Assuming everybody used public transport (100% mode share, no cars or anything else), this is equal to around the same patronage as BUZ 199 in one year.

Melbourne's SkyBus supershuttle carries ~ 2 million pax per year.

Nothing wrong with rail, but not worth spending $1 BN to have rail open on day one. The site is not on the way to anything yet. Bus will be required from the start, congestion or not.

But is ok to spend 2 billion building roads which will only encourage the existing population to drive more and congest it!

[joninbrisbane]

If the new Airport is so great, why don't airlines voluntarily move there rather than being forced?
Could it be that it's just closer and more convenient at Mascot? I would think so.

The Airport is going to be small in its initial stages. Airport construction is also likely to inhibit residential development in the land immediately surrounding the Airport due to traffic and noise as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_International_Airport

Using Canberra as a reference, CBR had 3.2 million passenger movements in 2011. Assuming everybody used public transport (100% mode share, no cars or anything else), this is equal to around the same patronage as BUZ 199 in one year.

Melbourne's SkyBus supershuttle carries ~ 2 million pax per year.

Nothing wrong with rail, but not worth spending $1 BN to have rail open on day one. The site is not on the way to anything yet. Bus will be required from the start, congestion or not.

But is ok to spend 2 billion building roads which will only encourage the existing population to drive more and congest it!

+1

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